3.1 Upcoming Changes - Page 31

baklava · 03/02/09, 4:29 PM

Well then nothing is changed now... bye bye BM hunters again

welcome back to SV...

GwolfGarona · 03/02/09, 4:31 PM

I just had an epiphany while playing with dual speccing.

When you switch specs, the talents of your pet are wiped. There is a 30min CD on changing pets remotely, but NO CD on swapping specs so before and after every boss fight we can choose the talents most optimum for that encounter vs just a average efficiency for the entire raid.

Looking at the pet talents this is a huge buff.

Esoth · 03/02/09, 4:56 PM

Wild Hunt is being changed to 10/20% extra AP from the master. There was a bug where the talent was just applying the hunter's AP to the pet twice, which is too generous.

If you have 6000 attack power, your pet probably gains 1320 attack power from you. With 2 ranks of this talent, it should gain 1580 attack power instead. Your pet's attack power will be higher than this by a few hundred from other sources.

This is clunky wording, but it looks like instead of the normal 22% scaling, it was currently doing 22%/42% on the PTR. The change is that it increases the scaling by 10%/20% (the way he worded it, it still sounds like it's additive so I'm glad he provided an example), so (.22*1.1)/(.22*1.2)=24.2%/26.4%. That's going to be somewhere around a 1k AP decrease for the hunter pet, at max rank, which has SV and BM looking really close on the spreadsheet.

Steelfleece · 03/02/09, 4:56 PM

I think we were all expecting Wild Hunt to be toned down, but I hardly think this counts BM out. Given that BM had such a huge lead in theoretical testing earlier, this should probably knock them down to about even.

Shandara · 03/02/09, 5:14 PM

It is difficult indeed to interpret GC's words.

The talent was increasing AP contribution from a base 22% to 42%/62% and not just doubling it as he claims. Either that or there were some serious display issues going on at the same time.

This change however makes the talent a bit lackluster and rather underpowered compared to Shark Attack.

Bovii · 03/02/09, 5:34 PM

The thing that really kills me about the 3.1 changes is that Blizz has still not done anything about addessing the overall issues with the Survival tree. In fact, they've done nothing but add in additional issues making the play style that much more difficult. Instead of managing trinket cool downs, Rapid Fire, and the general Explosive Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot/Aimed Shot, Serpent Sting, and whatever else, we now have to drop in Black Arrow into the mix all while timing it with whatever cool downs/trinkets that you were going to use anyway.

- Traps are still clunky, visible, easily avoided, and offer no benefit to a raid due to the before mentioned clunkiness
- They've added in too many must haves for a rotation (we're pushing Warlock madness here)
- Counterattack has been neutered beyond belief since 3.09 went live (no more using Deterrence to setup CA)
- Current traps are out dated and have to be glyphed to get around their pitfalls

Effinhunter · 03/02/09, 6:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sylvand

This is the wrong result for BA. 24 second cooldown means we get 2.5 BA per minute instead of just 2. 2.5 * 5 * 0.06 = 0.75 PPM.

Yep, you're right again. After performing the same math on a 2 minute window (which divides the terms better), I got the same result. Thanks for the correction.

KraxisSingular · 03/02/09, 6:41 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

It is difficult indeed to interpret GC's words.

The talent was increasing AP contribution from a base 22% to 42%/62% and not just doubling it as he claims. Either that or there were some serious display issues going on at the same time.

This change however makes the talent a bit lackluster and rather underpowered compared to Shark Attack.

Quite... Not only does it appear they have 'fixed' the additive scaling (his example shows that it is based of our scaling now), but they have halved the value as well? Seems to be quite a bit too much. I'm certain that a lot of BM Hunters are going to feel a little let down.

And as noted, no comments or changes regarding the highly haphazard structure of early Survival. It just doesn't make sense the way it is now (especially the Trap Mastery change is 'interesting' when there is no need for traps and already as a 1 pointer it was weak).

Catalept · 03/02/09, 7:06 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Quite... Not only does it appear they have 'fixed' the additive scaling (his example shows that it is based of our scaling now), but they have halved the value as well? Seems to be quite a bit too much. I'm certain that a lot of BM Hunters are going to feel a little let down.

Probably a little premature for that. Blizzard is obviously happy to twiddle the numbers, and I'd expect Wild Hunt and Shark Attack to be the primary target for BM DPS fine-tuning. Having said that, hunters disappointed that the Wild Hunt change shunts BM back down the DPS food-chain probably need to re-adjust their expectations

And as noted, no comments or changes regarding the highly haphazard structure of early Survival. It just doesn't make sense the way it is now (especially the Trap Mastery change is 'interesting' when there is no need for traps and already as a 1 pointer it was weak).

My personal theory is that somewhere, a conversation went something like this:

"We finally decided on a 41-point talent for survival! Trap Launching! It'll simplify some of survival's rotation issues, and be really cool!"

"Great! Can you get into 3.1?"

"... err... no."

"Do we have a plan B?"

"Not as such... no. But plan Q will let us use the Black Arrow icon!"

"Plan Q it is!"

KraxisSingular · 03/02/09, 9:57 PM

Yes, the tree is awesome with a Trap Launcher and the rolling Immo trap, but now... not so much. So the big question becomes: Do they intend to keep it the way it is now, since it 'clearly' works, or do they intend to change either BA to Trap Launcher or the tree itself? The first would be painful to accept.

Perforate · 03/02/09, 10:55 PM

Can anyone confirm that Sniper Training is or isnt working on test right now?

I cant figure out how to test it with all of my trinkets proccing AP and Expose weakness etc. And theres no icon for it when its active so I cant figure out if we are getting that 6% or not on the current test build.

Edit: Found this by AA a couple of pages back

Originally Posted by alien angel

As far as current PTR specs, sniper training appears to be doing exactly what it is on live, my ES damage went up by ~6.5% when at 40 yard range from what it was at 6 yard range, no difference from standing still for 6 seconds, no difference to attacks not mentioned in the tooltip.

Went to test it and yeah, hes definitely right. ST on Test at the moment has its tooltip updated to the 6s functionality but it is actually still using the old 30+ yard range functionality thats on live currently.

whylde · 03/02/09, 11:51 PM

Hi Perforate,

When u scroll onto the Talent you can see a "NYI" which stands for not yet implemented.

regards

baklava · 03/03/09, 4:30 AM

Originally Posted by Bovii

The thing that really kills me about the 3.1 changes is that Blizz has still not done anything about addessing the overall issues with the Survival tree. In fact, they've done nothing but add in additional issues making the play style that much more difficult. Instead of managing trinket cool downs, Rapid Fire, and the general Explosive Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot/Aimed Shot, Serpent Sting, and whatever else, we now have to drop in Black Arrow into the mix all while timing it with whatever cool downs/trinkets that you were going to use anyway.

- Traps are still clunky, visible, easily avoided, and offer no benefit to a raid due to the before mentioned clunkiness
- They've added in too many must haves for a rotation (we're pushing Warlock madness here)
- Counterattack has been neutered beyond belief since 3.09 went live (no more using Deterrence to setup CA)
- Current traps are out dated and have to be glyphed to get around their pitfalls

Except Serpent Sting, u can create a macro which is one button for all shots which randomly shots which shots are ready while u would need to wait for some sec at every try. Maybe u would not able to do perfect timing and cant prioritizing shots among them with this macro but still it will help at combats like u need to move etc... Black Arrow has its own CD 30 sec. Therefore u don't have to think about it much but when every CD is ready, u have to use it, anyway.

Rezdan · 03/03/09, 4:36 AM

Castrandom is no solution to shot complexity if you're trying to maximise dps.

Bellin · 03/03/09, 4:58 AM

With this "fix" to Wild Hunt I can see BM dropping below MM and SV by some margin. In general bonus dmg we get from shark attack is slightly higher than the nerf caused by normalization of all 3 trees (1% bonus dmg difference). Wild Hunt now is mediocre boost, and pretty much all eyes of potential BM hunters are at changes of hit transfer (affecting mainly Spirit Beast) and change of Wolf and Raptor specials. And since BM will most likely continue to scale worst of all 3 specs I find it unlikely to be contender for top spot, unless changes to Raptors/Spirit Beasts/Wolves can make that change.