3.1 Upcoming Changes - Page 33

Pook · 03/03/09, 1:12 PM

I think I'm right in thinking that as Ferocity pets have received a 5% damage nerf, that we are now having to spend points we previously spent on survival talents(well I did) HoTP& LyW.....just to get back up to where we were in the first place..

(100/110)*105 = 95.45% (base damage reduced to)

(95.45/100)&103 = 98.32% (1point in shark attack)

(95.45/100)&106 = 101.18% (2points in shark attack)

While I'm sure we will all freely admit that Wild Hunt as it was was obviously OP (and lovely) the new version will only give your pet an extra 4.3% AP. Which again seems very underpowered for our 51point talent.

KraxisSingular · 03/03/09, 1:14 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

My small suggestion would be that if such a list of questions is posted (it would be good to do so IMO, although this late in the PTR it will be hard to not have the thread drowned out by reposts of various bugs), avoid using the phrase "rolling immolation traps". Rolling brings to mind things like Ignite and deepwounds, accumulating damage with each refresh. While that would be ridiculously good DPS, I don't realistically expect that to be the implementation, and would rather just find out if we can hope for the trap duration to just be refreshed, with no damage accumulation.

If you want to ask about both refresh and rolling as separate questions though, go for it

A question about whether their design team is conscious of the number of different GCDs Survival needs to juggle and the counterintuitive effect it has on certain cooldowns (e.g. glyphing aimed shot down to 8s being of debatable value just because an 8s cooldown doesn't necessarily fit into an integral number of GCDs, or various spells having artificially extented cooldowns (also an MM issue) because the come off cooldown at the same time as other spells) would be good too - given his last response when someone asked about survival complexity, I don't think Ghostcrawler at least is aware of the silly amount of math MM and SV hunters do just over GCD-tetris.

You are quite right... I didn't intend to imply rolling as in the old stackable Ignite or as Deep Wounds. Have edited that one.

But what I listed was just a few ideas, it doesn't have to be anything like that.
And while I would love to post these questions, I fear that posting on the EU forums would just have it drown out in the GM transfer.

JSorrentino · 03/03/09, 1:43 PM

That's not true. In 3.0.3, even though Kill Shot had a GCD, it was somewhat unique in that you could put it in a macro and if it was on cooldown or the target wasn't under 20%, it would fall through to the next ability in the macro. Have you confirmed that is no longer the case? I'm sorry if I'm being pedantic here, it just seems like your point has been "It's on the GCD and that means the macros won't work," but that doesn't necessarily follow for this specific ability.

It does not work on current PTR (well i tested this a couple days ago).

Sylvand · 03/03/09, 1:57 PM

Originally Posted by Evio

This may seem like a silly question but as far as I knew ES still doesnt refresh imo trap. have I missed something that would justify it still beeing considered part of a SV rotation?

You could benefit from an initial trap placed before the pull, but in general it will be better to use black arrow.

Originally Posted by JSorrentino

Put 2 shots in a macro and see the results yourself. Arcane/Multi Arcane/steady, etc. Anything with a GCD will break *this type* of macroing. Cast sequence macros will just not work for SV.

Blizz removed this functionality before because of the fact that hunters were throwing this into a single macro to let them do dps and use shots in the proper priority if placed in the macro in the right order. I think this was a good call then, and now because it separates the good from the bad hunters. (or the lazy from the not - however you would like to look at it.)

;-)

He's not talking about /castsequence or repeated /cast. He's talking about /castrandom. The problem of course with /castrandom is that it may randomly not cast your priority shots even when they are off cooldown.

Mikari · 03/03/09, 3:48 PM

New notes on MMO. Doesn't look like Explosive is nerfed any more than it is on live.

Marksmanship

* Viper Sting now Stings the target, draining 4% mana over 8 sec (up to a maximum of 8% of the caster's maximum mana), and energizing the Hunter equal to 300% of the amount drained. Only one Sting per Hunter can be active on any one target.
* Auto Shot now gives 15% haste to all attacks fired by a Hunter.

Survival

* Explosive Shot damage reduced, rank 4 now deals [ 14% of RAP + 386 ] - [ 14% of RAP + 464 ] fire damage. (down from [ 16% of RAP + 428 ] - [ 16% of RAP + 516 ])
* Wyvern Sting now has a 1.5 minute cooldown. (Up from 1 minute)

Pet

* Pummel (Gorilla) cooldown has been increased to 30 sec (Up from 10 sec.) and silence effect duration lowered to 2 sec. (Down from 4 sec)

tarus · 03/03/09, 4:12 PM

Does anyone else see that with the changes to Viper Sting that on any boss with Mana we will no longer need to switch to AotV. Assume a the target has a mana pool of 50,000 and the hunter has a mana pool of 10,000. Viper will now drain the great of 0.04(50,000) or 0.08(10,000) and then give the hunter 3 times that amount. So in this case every 8s a hunter will get 2400 mana in lue of a SrS.

On any boss that drains mana or is long enough for mana to be a concern I think Viper Sting will outweigh SrS by far.

LordThing · 03/03/09, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by tarus

Does anyone else see that with the changes to Viper Sting that on any boss with Mana we will no longer need to switch to AotV. Assume a the target has a mana pool of 50,000 and the hunter has a mana pool of 10,000. Viper will now drain the great of 0.04(50,000) or 0.08(10,000) and then give the hunter 3 times that amount. So in this case every 8s a hunter will get 2400 mana in lue of a SrS.

On any boss that drains mana or is long enough for mana to be a concern I think Viper Sting will outweigh SrS by far.

I think the real problem, if it works out that way, is you are overwriting any sting buff such as Serpent or Scorpid(if you bother with that anymore).

I guess it would be a minor issue overall since you are at 50% less damage during viper vs a 6ish or more with the loss of serpent sting. Plus it would require a boss with a mana pool. Definitely something you could fire on the run like during Heigan.

With the normalization of pets, would maybe a cunning pet with roar of recovery help mana starved specs like Marksman or on mana drain/explode fights?

Catalept · 03/03/09, 4:44 PM

Originally Posted by tarus

Does anyone else see that with the changes to Viper Sting that on any boss with Mana we will no longer need to switch to AotV. Assume a the target has a mana pool of 50,000 and the hunter has a mana pool of 10,000. Viper will now drain the great of 0.04(50,000) or 0.08(10,000) and then give the hunter 3 times that amount. So in this case every 8s a hunter will get 2400 mana in lue of a SrS.

On any boss that drains mana or is long enough for mana to be a concern I think Viper Sting will outweigh SrS by far.

Where applicable, Viper Sting would certainly outweigh the Aspect... but simply ignoring SrS altogether would be a bad idea, particularly given that Viper's uptime is only a little over 50% of its cooldown, which will leave a 'dead spot' where Serpent could/should be ticking away.

I like the idea of hunters have another, lower-cost/lower-return mana regen option... however, very few bosses have a mana bar... unless Blizzard plans on adding one to all raid bosses from here on in, MM in particular will need something else if their mana issues are to be resolved.

Bovii · 03/03/09, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by LordThing

With the normalization of pets, would maybe a cunning pet with roar of recovery help mana starved specs like Marksman or on mana drain/explode fights?

They're currently working on the known mana issues with MM so I don't think that it would be necessary.

I am shocked to see them increase the cool down on Wyvern Sting. It doesn't make much sense as they actually reduced the time of the debuff in PvP from 10s to 6s.

tarus · 03/03/09, 4:57 PM

The current changes to Wyvern Sting bring it below where is was prior to 3.0. At the end of TBC in S4 it was instant, 1.5min cool down and 10s cc. I still fail to see where Blizzard is going with everything and with little to no PvP testing on PTR I am afraid they are just going to nerf every aspect of SV PvP and then adjust it back much like they did with BM.

I do agree that Wyvern is OP against some healers and nothing but a GCD on others. The combined affect means that we have to use Wyvern first since it shares dim returns with freezing trap. The PvE change is very nice however. A 30s CC that works on anything but undead will be a huge buff if CC is needed in Tier 8 content.

kpm1 · 03/03/09, 6:06 PM

Originally Posted by Tphirey

Has anyone done any testing of the Silverback pet talent on PTR yet? I'd really like to see some data to compare.

I just did a test vs a training dummy running 2/2 Spirit Bond (for the heals), 2/2 Blood of the Rhino (for the heals), 2/2 Wild Hunt (extra stam) and 2/2 Silverback (Growl heals for 2% total health). Pet has 19334 unbuffed hp and the combat log is showing Silverback heals for 3573 every 3.5 seconds from growl. This is with a Gorilla as the pet.

I'm also curious to hear of the numbers from Silverback, 3573 is just entirely too much. In theory each growl should be healing as much as the heal every 10 seconds from 2/2 Spirit Bond, which in your case should only be 19334*0.026=502. I'm unsure if the +healing components of SB and BotR are additive or multiplicative (I assumed additive), if it's multiplicative then the heal should be even less.

Steelfleece · 03/03/09, 6:57 PM

Originally Posted by kpm1

I'm also curious to hear of the numbers from Silverback, 3573 is just entirely too much. In theory each growl should be healing as much as the heal every 10 seconds from 2/2 Spirit Bond, which in your case should only be 19334*0.026=502. I'm unsure if the +healing components of SB and BotR are additive or multiplicative (I assumed additive), if it's multiplicative then the heal should be even less.

I was seeing numbers more in the ~2000 range, with 3/3 Great Stamina, 2/2 Wild Hunt, and 2/2 Blood of the Rhino, with Hunter talents 1/5 Endurance Training and 1/2 Spirit Bond on my level 80 gorilla (~19.8k health).

Edit: Current PTR build has a "fixed" Wild Hunt that is not "nerfed"--ie, seems to be a 20%/40% version that actually is based on the AP gain rather than flat additional scaling. My ~1600 AP buff gains about ~400 AP with 2/2 Wild Hunt, and about 200 additional health.

Findal · 03/03/09, 7:40 PM

Hi! I've been doing some tests on training dummies and I have been getting some strange behaviours with Black Arrow and Lock & Load which I would like to share with you guys in case anyone has seen the same.

First of all I would like to say the proc feels very unreliable, sometimes it procs like twice a minute, sometimes I don't see a proc in minutes. Nevertheless, tonight I was running some tests as Survival with 3/3 in Resourcefullness along with another Hunter. What shocked me was that in 3 minutes I had gotten 0 Lock & Load procs. However, suddenly I had a proc (while my Black Arrow was up) and another proc shortly after, before I could even use both charges I think (couldn't verify if I had used 2 L&L charges), which seemed to confirm what I suspected from the tooltip change, there is no internal cooldown.

However, another thing happened: like 5-6 seconds after a third L&L procced when I didn't have Black Arrow (or any trap for that matter) up. The other hunter did have Black Arrow on the target. I'm wondering, is this just a typical PTR lag-related bug, or is the current L&L bugged and can proc from other hunter's BA? Does anyone have any input on this matter?

I'm afraid this got me by surprise and I couldn't verify it on the combat log, gonna try to do some research tomorrow on this matter. Might very well just be a bug to do with the PTR and not the skill since my server (Remulos) was pretty laggy and was giving random bugs (like having to respec the pet twice for it to unlearn the talents).

Perforate · 03/03/09, 8:57 PM

Originally Posted by Mikari

New notes on MMO. Doesn't look like Explosive is nerfed any more than it is on live.

I hate to ask this again, but are you certain that ES wasnt nerfed any in these new notes on MMO champion? Ive been wondering if they would really nerf it again. Are the numbers you quoted from MMO champ really what we have on live currently?

Marthel · 03/03/09, 9:38 PM

After the current patch I seem to be seeing pet damage lower than on live. With a 1667 Power my cat has damage of 495-551 on live and similarly specced in the PTR its only 473-526.

Can anyone confirm this, I am pretty sure I am not missing seeing a buff on live.

(Oh and Wild Hunt seems to make no difference on the PTR just now)