3.1 Upcoming Changes - Page 38

Ramsess · 03/07/09, 8:29 AM

Originally Posted by n4kun

No, you missed something.
The talent says that for those traps, their periodic damage will be increased by 30%, and not increasing your periodic damage on a target affected by those traps

The talent remains the same as for now.

Maybe, talents not exactly says increasing periodic dmg only for listed skills. I tested it, my normal tick of Serpent Sting was 587 after fire BA on that target Serpent started ticking for 624 (no procs, from trinkets etc.) Strainge more dmg, because +30% it will be 763 per tick.

sevla · 03/07/09, 8:43 AM

More Piercing Shot testing, 07March

12:49'54.469 Atsitab Chimera Shot hits Heroic Training Dummy #3 for 5484 Nature. (Critical)
12:49'55.047 Heroic Training Dummy #3 is afflicted by Piercing Shots.
12:49'56.031 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 206 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:49'57.031 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 206 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:49'57.922 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 205 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:49'58.953 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 206 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:49'59.406 Atsitab Steady Shot hits Heroic Training Dummy #3 for 2076 Physical. (Critical)
12:50'00.000 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 206 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'00.234 Heroic Training Dummy #3's Piercing Shots is refreshed.
12:50'01.094 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 181 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'02.281 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 181 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'03.265 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 181 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'04.156 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 181 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'05.156 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 181 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'06.281 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 181 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'07.125 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 181 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'07.312 Atsitab Chimera Shot hits Heroic Training Dummy #3 for 5437 Nature. (Critical)
12:50'07.890 Heroic Training Dummy #3's Piercing Shots is refreshed.
12:50'08.890 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 226 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'09.922 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 227 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'10.937 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 226 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'11.953 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 226 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'12.765 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 227 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:50'13.984 Heroic Training Dummy #3 suffers 227 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.

Log trimmed to remove unnecessary shots/procs, full log here: WWS

Piercing Shots now works as Ignite, it takes 30% of the damage of the critical Steady, Aimed and Chimera and deals it over a 8 seconds duration, once per second.
If a new critical happens while the debuff is active, it adds the new 30% critical damage with the remaining damage the debuff had and refreshes the duration, dealing (new 30% critical damage + remaining damage debuff) over the 8 seconds, once a second.
A bug however. If the debuff ticks right before the refresh (like on 12:50' on that combat log), it doesn't count that last tick to the remaining debuff damage, so we gain a "free" tick of damage. Another example (same combat log):

12:20'35.125	Atsitab Aimed Shot hits Heroic Training Dummy #2 for 3426 Physical. (Critical)
12:20'35.500	Heroic Training Dummy #2 is afflicted by Piercing Shots.
12:20'36.515	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 128 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:20'37.469	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 129 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:20'38.031	Atsitab Steady Shot hits Heroic Training Dummy #2 for 2170 Physical. (Critical)
12:20'38.422	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 128 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:20'38.844	Heroic Training Dummy #2's Piercing Shots is refreshed.
12:20'39.781	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 178 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:20'40.844	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 178 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:20'41.828	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 178 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:20'42.875	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 178 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:20'43.828	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 177 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:20'44.844	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 178 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:20'45.828	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 178 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.
12:20'46.828	Heroic Training Dummy #2 suffers 178 Physical damage from Atsitab Piercing Shots.

The tick at 12:20'38.422 is free, it's not counted for the remaining damage on debuff when calculating the new damage.

With this "fix", Aimed, Steady and Chimera crits are worth 3 times normal damage, if my maths are correct:

ShotCritDamage= [ShotNormalDamage + (ShotCritDamageBonus * MortalShotBonus * MarkedForDeathBonus)] * PiercingShotsBonus=
[ShotNormalDamage + (ShotCritDamageBonus * 1.3 * 1.1)] * 1.3 = 3.16 * ShotNormalDamage

This should put a bigger value to crit rating and agility for MM when comparing to AP.

Mikari · 03/07/09, 8:49 AM

Would be interesting to see how Marks compares to survival and BM now that piercing shots appears to be working properly, still undecided on what my other spec is going to be.

KraxisSingular · 03/07/09, 9:08 AM

Originally Posted by alienangel

Which don't stack? They've already said the reduction from their new Shattering Throw "stacks" with sunders, and I can't imagine the new Battle Stance bonus wouldn't stack with sunders too. The question is which parts of all of this stack to remove from total armor, and which stack to remove from remaining armor.

And yes I believe you can reduce armor completely, you just need to reach 100% armor penetration from gear to do so ^_^, at which point debuffs don't matter at all, you're always reducing any target to 0 armor. With the upcoming changes, grim toll should be worth 56% ArP on proc on it's own, so with some stacked ArP gear you're looking at around 60-65% charactersheet penetration when procced?

So the potential amounts reduced are:

(10k x 0.76) x 0.4 x 0.75 = 2280 	(worst possible: debuffs, gear and talents are all separately applied)
(10k x 0.76) x 0.05       = 380 	(debuffs applied first, gear+talents applied after)
(10k x 0.0)								= 0 		(best possible - everything is summed together and applied at once

I suppose my choice of words was quite off the charts there, I play it down to it beign late, and my brain working at 5%.

Anyway, yes, theoretically you can max ArP, but is it realistic? Even with the buff to ArP I doubt it. Mainly because I don't think talents and gear are counted together in this case. Obviously we will have to wait and see what our Warrior/Druid/Rogue friends say (being that they are the ones that deal the most non-bleed physical damage).

Oh, and I suppose it had to happen, Piercing Shots isn't affected by Magnle/Trauma it seems. Does Deep Wounds get the same treatment? Didn't see it mentioned.
Overall there were a lot of "in case of X, Y doesn't apply" notes.

Mikari · 03/07/09, 9:13 AM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Oh, and I suppose it had to happen, Piercing Shots isn't affected by Magnle/Trauma it seems. Does Deep Wounds get the same treatment? Didn't see it mentioned.
Overall there were a lot of "in case of X, Y doesn't apply" notes.

Yes

Deep Wounds: The damage done by this talent no longer receives modifications from effects that increase or decrease damage done by a percentage.

KraxisSingular · 03/07/09, 9:17 AM

I suppose this also means that the effects are both counted as part of the attack that does them, rather than a seperate effect, making such talents like +%damage talents that would otherwise have applied, not apply obviously. The wording of it could lead to very open interpretations. Oh well, I guess it is only fair that some that is passively applied shouldn't be counted seperately (an added 9% critscaling for MM could be sick).

Gorah · 03/07/09, 9:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ramsess

Maybe, talents not exactly says increasing periodic dmg only for listed skills. I tested it, my normal tick of Serpent Sting was 587 after fire BA on that target Serpent started ticking for 624 (no procs, from trinkets etc.) Strainge more dmg, because +30% it will be 763 per tick.

It's because BA increases damage done to the target by 6% while it's active. So for your Serpent Sting: 587*1,06=622, so about right. Trap Master doesn't have anything to do here.

stickums · 03/07/09, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by milkabull

I know this is just theory crafting, but with the high cost of the Greatness card is it still going to be best in slot moving forward? Will it be spec specific?

I already have fury of five flights, grim toll, bandits insignia, and a nobles deck ready to turn in next week.

Well, right now it's BiS by a large margin (slightly not as large for BM) so I just cannot see it falling below #2 in Ulduar, and with the new AGI enhancing Hunting Party talent it gets a little better. I've been wrestling with the same decision myself and I've come to the conclusion that it's still worth getting, however neither Five Flights nor Bandit's drop for us at all so I have no other options.

Unless BM comes in as the top spec and everyone moves over to AP instead of AGI I see no reason not to cash it in.

halabar · 03/07/09, 7:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mikari

It's a bug

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [BUG] Improved Hawk affecting Rapid Recup

On another note despite them fixing Wild Hunt to scale the 40% AP properly it's been nerfed to 10/20% anyway, might be better to get the point in Shark Attack over Wild Hunt now for non BM I guess.

Do you have any evidence of this, or is it still stated as coming?.. seems to be conflicting reports here.

Assuming Wild Hunt is nerfed to that level, and including the BA buffs, are we back to BM being roughly 800DPS or so behind SV again, or is it still closer?

(Trying to make some gear choices for the patch, and don't want to purchase a Greatness Card for a BM build, but would happily buy one if my main spec will be SV).

Steelfleece · 03/07/09, 8:05 PM

Originally Posted by halabar

Do you have any evidence of this, or is it still stated as coming?.. seems to be conflicting reports here.

Assuming Wild Hunt is nerfed to that level, and including the BA buffs, are we back to BM being roughly 800DPS or so behind SV again, or is it still closer?

(Trying to make some gear choices for the patch, and don't want to purchase a Greatness Card for a BM build, but would happily buy one if my main spec will be SV).

As far as I know, BM still loves the Greatness card (it and Fot5F are the optimal trinkets for BM), but I don't think the Wild Hunt nerf will mean that much in the grand scope of things. It's certainly disappointing, but it's a loss of maybe 200~300 pet AP (depending on gear and buffs), which while significant hardly kills the spec.

Lactose · 03/07/09, 8:30 PM

Might as well mention this here in addition to on the European PTR forum:
Aspect of the Pack does not fade correctly from all members in a raid setting. Any members outside the Hunter's party will have Aspect of the Pack stuck for 10-15 seconds.

PTR thread with more information.

Steelfleece · 03/07/09, 8:38 PM

Originally Posted by Lactose

Might as well mention this here in addition to on the European PTR forum:
Aspect of the Pack does not fade correctly from all members in a raid setting. Any members outside the Hunter's party will have Aspect of the Pack stuck for 10-15 seconds.

PTR thread with more information.

In addition, Master's Call's immunity effect apparently has an infinite duration right now, and won't go away until you right-click it or die (it stays on even if the pet goes away).

Lactose · 03/07/09, 8:48 PM

Originally Posted by Steelfleece

In addition, Master's Call's immunity effect apparently has an infinite duration right now, and won't go away until you right-click it or die (it stays on even if the pet goes away).

Sounds like something which might be connected with the following change, also new in this build:
Animal Handler now increases the duration of your Master's Call effect by 3/10 sec. (Old - Reduced cooldown by 5/10 sec)

XereX · 03/08/09, 10:24 PM

Is Furious Howl changing in 3.1.0? maybe it is now stacking with BS or Might etc. Few pages back, there was a brief discussion about (Wolf vs Raptor vs Cat) and it then was recommend to use Wolfs.

I tried to read back as much as i could but beside those 3-4 posts, no one else even talks or mentions wolfs so couldn’t find anything and there is nothing on mmo-chmapion about this either. Which bring me to conclusion....

A) Wolfs have changed but i just missed it completely.
B) Nothing has changed and what i read few pages back was just more in line of personal preferences.

Which one is true?

Myul · 03/08/09, 10:33 PM

It has changed on the ptr:
- only benefit the hunter and his pet.
- on a long cooldown (40s)
- providing 320 attack power (value of 4 x level) for a duration length of half of the cooldown (20s)

actual ptr ability link