3.1 Upcoming Changes - Page 39

whylde · 03/09/09, 2:56 AM

Hi

Does Blizzard intend to change something regarding the value of Armorpen ?

I just saw some of the drops at mmo-champion and there is a lot of armorpen on the loot. Any information on that matter ?

regards

Steelfleece · 03/09/09, 3:09 AM

Originally Posted by whylde

Hi

Does Blizzard intend to change something regarding the value of Armorpen ?

I just saw some of the drops at mmo-champion and there is a lot of armorpen on the loot. Any information on that matter ?

regards

They did say this:

Classes: General

* Armor Penetration Rating: All classes now receive 25% more benefit from Armor Penetration Rating.

Unfortunately it seems that the haste rating changes only affect melee classes.

Starfox · 03/09/09, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Steelfleece

Unfortunately it seems that the haste rating changes only affect melee classes.

And not even all, only those who really got very little benefit from haste like ferals

alienangel · 03/09/09, 11:23 AM

FWIW, a lot of the Ulduar gear shown so far seems to have hefty amounts of ArP on it (well, "a lot" compared to the number that had it during wrath beta), so hopefully stacking it does become more useful.

Stacking that new shattering throw with the new Aura Mastery talent for 10s during Call of the Wild and heroism is looking quite nice at the moment.

Esoth · 03/09/09, 11:56 AM

Back when Blizzard first mentioned under armor and related abilities changing to 20% reduction instead of a static amount, they said they would make changes to compensate for this nerf (20% being less of a reduction than the static amount on most bosses). I had assumed they would lower boss armor but maybe this is the only change. It certainly increases the relative value of ArP either way, but that stat still has a long way to go to even match crit I think. Too much of our damage is either magic or from pets, for all three specs. It does start to leave haste in the dust though, so it's not surprising that our less desirable stat that is appearing on gear changes from haste to ArP somewhat.

KraxisSingular · 03/09/09, 12:24 PM

Indeed, it seems like ArP is going from truly horrible to just not very good.

When they said that they intended the Naxx gear to be less than optimal, I thought that was a right approach to the things. But the next tier of gear should be better. So far it looks like it is just 'more' stats, not really better itemized. Maybe they meant in general, and not each class in specific?

Cranch · 03/09/09, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

FWIW, a lot of the Ulduar gear shown so far seems to have hefty amounts of ArP on it (well, "a lot" compared to the number that had it during wrath beta), so hopefully stacking it does become more useful.

Another possibility is that the Ulduar bosses have higher armor (because they are mechanical, after all) so we'll need more ArP to get the same debuffed armor as with older bosses.

Skhope · 03/09/09, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by Cranch

Another possibility is that the Ulduar bosses have higher armor (because they are mechanical, after all) so we'll need more ArP to get the same debuffed armor as with older bosses.

All of the bosses except Flame Leviathan have been non-mechanical on PTR so far. I am not sure if they have different amount of armor than raid dummies though.

alienangel · 03/09/09, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by Skhope

All of the bosses except Flame Leviathan have been non-mechanical on PTR so far. I am not sure if they have different amount of armor than raid dummies though.

That reminds me, has anyone been noting down what type of creatures they are? How many of them fall under Imp Tracking?

squidyj · 03/09/09, 2:11 PM

Originally Posted by Skhope

All of the bosses except Flame Leviathan have been non-mechanical on PTR so far. I am not sure if they have different amount of armor than raid dummies though.

Well, Mimiron will be mechanical too.

ankah · 03/09/09, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by Cranch

Another possibility is that the Ulduar bosses have higher armor (because they are mechanical, after all) so we'll need more ArP to get the same debuffed armor as with older bosses.

Isn't sunder getting nerfed as well? That would increase the value of ArP as a stat

KraxisSingular · 03/09/09, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by ankah

Isn't sunder getting nerfed as well? That would increase the value of ArP as a stat

Nerfed yes, but bossarmor is being compensated to match. That way after full sunders and FF bosses should stay around the same as now.

Given that armor is 13083 now, after full sunders and FF armor is 7898. If we then assume that Blizzard intends the new armor to be exactly the same as now after debuffs, then 7898 = 76% of total armor. So 100% ~ 10392 armor. Fits with GC's comments on the matter. Though it relies on the same post-debuff numbers, which is not a certain by a long shot (though it would seem odd to nerf physical classes so broadly).

Overall it is a buff to no debuffs and FF alone (important for 10-man).

Steelfleece · 03/09/09, 4:52 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

That reminds me, has anyone been noting down what type of creatures they are? How many of them fall under Imp Tracking?

Kologarn was a giant (and his two hands were considered giants as well). I imagine most of the titan people will be considered giants, but Kologarn is the only one I've actually got to face.

Esoth · 03/09/09, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Nerfed yes, but bossarmor is being compensated to match. That way after full sunders and FF bosses should stay around the same as now.

Given that armor is 13083 now, after full sunders and FF armor is 7898. If we then assume that Blizzard intends the new armor to be exactly the same as now after debuffs, then 7898 = 76% of total armor. So 100% ~ 10392 armor. Fits with GC's comments on the matter. Though it relies on the same post-debuff numbers, which is not a certain by a long shot (though it would seem odd to nerf physical classes so broadly).

Overall it is a buff to no debuffs and FF alone (important for 10-man).

Has this been confirmed though? I don't recall seeing anyone testing boss armor on the PTR, but I could have missed it. The 25% buff to ArP made me wonder if they were ditching the idea of giving bosses less armor in favor of buffing the ArP, but they could do both.

Is anyone else concerned about the relative importance of our melee and ranged weapons? What I mean to say, is that it appears I get more benefit from an upgrade to my melee weapon(s) instead of from my ranged weapon. In the spreadsheet, the difference between Cryptfiend's Bite and Journey's End is greater than the difference between Arrowsong and Envoy of Mortality (assuming no racials there). The same appears true if you compare Journey's/Envoy to this gun and this sword taken from mmo-champion.com. It's not necessarily a problem, except in loot distribution (which may be a problem) but it strikes me as odd. I wonder if it would make sense to give hunters an AP bonus or something for our ranged weapons similar to what druids have with their staves, to make our ranged weapons have more importance.

Catalept · 03/09/09, 5:33 PM

Originally Posted by Esoth

Is anyone else concerned about the relative importance of our melee and ranged weapons? What I mean to say, is that it appears I get more benefit from an upgrade to my melee weapon(s) instead of from my ranged weapon.

Yeah, I've noticed this too. I remember SWP-level spreadsheets giving about 0.225 DPS per AP for my pre-3.0 SV spec... it's now closer to 0.5, whereas output DPS per weapon DPS hasn't changed nearly as much... in fact, as a proportion, isn't probably decreased now that Steady Shot is a b-list ability. Coupled with the suppressed item budget for ranged weapons, this does indeed leave us in a rather odd position... I'm not sure I like the idea of BiS 2h-weapons being every bit as much a 'must have' as our actual ranged weapon, but given that Blizzard seems to be itemizing (what were previously) feral staves for hunters, the competition won't be nearly as fierce as it was when we were fighting with sword/axe/polearm users.