KraxisSingular

Have we been running with a bugged CotW? That's what I read from the inclusion of 'live' in the comment. Damn... Too late for me to log on and test but wow, just wow.

 

Nooska

I just logged on and tested this in SMC on the heroic dummy, and we do indeed not get an ap bonus (but do get the buff icon) when at 30-35 yards (Ranger finder has 30-35 and 10-30.)
Second test, making sure I am in combat (was out of combat for the first test)
Still getting the buff but no actual RAP increase at 30 yards.

I will test just below 30 as soon as its off cooldown again and update.
Just below 30 yards, again no increase in RAP while gtting th ebuff - however this time I checked my MAP, and they do increase.

At 10 yards I do get the RAP increase with the buff (as well as the MAP)
I will unspec to check that its not a talent of mine thats interfering.

5th test; Naked unspecced in combat at 30-35 yards. I get the buff, no RAP increase, but I do get the MAP increase (394 -> 433) RAP steady at 333.

CotW is definately bugged - and not in a small way.


BTW: this is live!

Edit: retested in combat, no change.
Edit 2: Tested at less than 30 yards
Edit 3: Tested at 10 yards
Edit 4: Tested unspecced, naked at 30-35 yards

 

Dardon

I just finished some testing and it appears that this is still the case. I posted a report:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [BUG] Black Arrow (Explosive Shot)

Tested BA tonight (build 9757). 6% BA bonus to Explosive Shot not observed. I only tested Explosive shot. Please confirm that the 6% bonus is applied to all shots including autoshot.

Tested on the level 60 dummy. Aspect the Viper without trinkets.

~10 min run of auto & explosive shot :

286855 total ES dmg/273 ticks = 1062.5 dmg/tick (52.0% crit)

~15 min run auto, BA & Explosive shot (LnL ignored/no clipping; 2 ES per BA):

235905 total ES dmg/222 ticks = 1050.7 dmg/tick (54.1% crit)

Recount screenshots available. After observing this I will try to test all other shots including auto.

Updates:

Aimed Shot does receive the damage bonus. I did two 100 shot runs of Aimed shot 17.8 & 20.4 minutes. Two aimed shots per BA on the second run. 6.5% increase average non-crit/6.8% increase average crit.

Steady Shot: I did not observe the 6% dmg bonus to steady shot. I did two 300 shot runs of Steady shot 10 & 20 minutes. Six steady shots per BA on the second run. Average crit 1439 versus 1455 & Average non-crit 604 versus 610. I reported this as well.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [BUG] Black Arrow (Steady Shot)

 

Rivkah

So I checked the bug forum and I found a report of the Call of the Wild issue dated from Feb 18th: WoW Bug Forum Report. I'm still baffled at how a bug like this could have been introduced- it seems like an issue of reversed RAP/MAP code, but why would Call of the Wild need a secondary range check on top of the basic "in range to apply the buff" check in the first place?

 

tet666

Could someone please make a new bug report or open a gm ticket or something like that at the us forums? i couldnt find a recent one we have to spread the information about this cotw bug and make it public i mean i use this abillity all the time at sniper range and now i hear i doesnt do shit?

 

Dardon

A report was posted last night...

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> BUG Call of the wild

 

Nooska

A report was also posted on the european forums (I forgot to check if t he US forums had it already)

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [BUG][Hunter Pet] Call of the Wild

 

Soulcow

Ah so this is the bug I noticed here a while ago Hunter: Simple Questions/Simple Answers. I was thinking totaly in wrong direction and trying to find the problem in buff stacking.

 

TrevvyTrev

The disparity is pretty clear from the spell data. I haven't checked, but I imagine your melee AP does increase by 10% when you use Call of the Wild, because the range on that effect is listed as 100 yards. See Call of the Wild - Spell - World of Warcraft. That also explains why you get the buff at all.

My guess is that things got mixed up when they changed it from working on all group members (there probably was a 20 yard limit on that) to working only on the hunter and pet.

 

KraxisSingular

I seem to remember that CoTW was only 20 yards initially and a lot of people were not too happy with that and Sniper Training. Obvious enough. Maybe that is where it got messed up.

 

Bellin

This can be one of the reasons trap dancing is ahead by such a margin over standing still. Loosing this precious buff is something that hurts.
And yes, it had 20 yards range when it had been introduced.

 

Antiganon

Has anyone on PTR tried 11/55/5?

It seems like with the changes to Wild Quiver and Piercing Shots this should be the max DPS spec for MM, although I havent been able to get on the PTR and test. Has anyone tried this, and/or could someone on PTR give it a shot?

 

Bellin

I doubt that spec will yield max dps.
3 filler talents in BM tree (spent to reach Aspect Mastery) do not increase dps, while offering little flexibility. Option is to trade 4 points from BM for something else (Surv Instincts, Rapid Recuperation, Silencing Shot), or to move some points from MM tree and get Unleashed Fury.

 

Anindor

Since Aspect Mastery offers a fixed (e.g. non scaling) benefit it will be worth less as gear gets better. Most MM hunters I think will be running with some variation of
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft [7/57/7]. I'll be speccing into FA to allow more gear flexibility but those points can be distributed into mana saving talents like Rapid Recuperation or be put into ISS. On non-trackable fights (mechanical bosses) I expect MM hunters to drop the points in SV and put them into BM for UF. (though more discussion on this probably belongs in MM forum).

 

KraxisSingular

The advantage of Aspect Mastery isn't the 90 AP alone, it's nice but nothing more. It's the damage in Viper, which MM Hunters do use a fair bit more. Granted, MM should theoretically spend less time in Viper with the reduction in costs and the more efficient layout of RR. But then agian we are supposedly going to run dry a bit more in Ulduar...

 

Anindor

In a 25 man raid, I can't remember the last time I went OOM. Between general raid replenishment, BoW, and hunters insane scaling with Judgement of Wisdom even MM doesn't have mana issues with a decent raid setup. Yes, certain fights can be harder on mana than others but, when we're basically doing single target, mana is not an issue. With the changed to mana costs in 3.1 and increased value of Rapid Recuperation, I expect us to have even fewer issues.

 

Aestil

I like the 11/55/5 spec to start off Ulduar. I think the shortened revive pet time will be useful, and at the moment, Aspect Mastery is still pretty good [obviously this will diminish as our gear improves in Ulduar] 7/x/7 spec should definitely hold higher potential for damage. Silencing Shot being a 'free' DPS increase is looking nice. Hopefully it stays that way.

@Anindor- in your 7/x/7 spec, what do you suggest doing if you are hit capped from gear already? I suppose at that point 2 or 3 points in ISS is the best we can do, even if it isn't very desirable.

 

Mugsley

The only issue may be if there are fights where Paladins can't reliably get to the boss to refresh JoW (Hodir comes to mind).

As far as Imp Tracking goes, I believe Mimiron will be the only boss that IT won't help. Maybe X-002 (or whatever it's called)as well? Flame Leviathan will be a vehicle fight, so IT won't matter anyway.

 

Bozorgmehr

Thanks for the tests Dardon. I'll do some more (including auto shot) to confirm later tonight and will edit the results into this post.

Explosive Shot - Not affected
Without BA:
Average Tick (Noncrit): 744 Max: 832
Average Tick (Crit): 1741 Max: 1899

With BA:
Average Tick (Noncrit): 746 Max: 829
Average Tick (Crit): 1639 Max: 1877

Steady Shot - Affected
Without BA:
Average (Noncrit): 598 Max: 640
Average (Crit): 1327 Max: 1424

With BA:
Average (Noncrit): 631 Max: 678
Average (Crit): 1433 Max: 1515

Aimed Shot - Affected
Without BA:
Average (Noncrit): 835 Max: 874
Average (Crit): 1907 Max: 1962

With BA:
Average (Noncrit): 883 Max: 923
Average (Crit): 1989 Max: 2014

Auto Shot - Affected
Without BA:
Average (Noncrit): 578 Max: 628
Average (Crit): 1184 Max: 1253

With BA:
Average (Noncrit): 621 Max: 666
Average (Crit): 1275 Max: 1329

Kill Shot - Affected
Without BA:
Average (Noncrit): 2099 Max: 2132
Average (Crit): 4746 Max: 4752

With BA:
Average (Noncrit): 2242 Max: 2349
Average (Crit): 5082 Max: 5137

I'm tempted to try Arcane Shot, Multi-Shot, Scatter Shot, Volley, Melee Abilities and Fire Traps aswell, but those are slightly moot points. I may do them anyway for completeness if I have the time.


EDIT: I had a much lower than expected critical strike chance on some shots. I took off some pieces of gear and did not spec into proc talents (Sniper Training, Expose Weakness, Master Tactician, Imp Hawk, etc. My time was fairly limited so I didnt get a very huge sample. I only got 4 crits on Kill Shot over 36 shots and 12 crits on Aimed Shot over 72 shots. It could just be random chance, but it would be good to get some more tests in, I'll try again tomorrow. My paper doll crit was 25% (after taking off a few pieces of gear, like i said) and I didnt have the crit bonus on Kill Shot because I didn't take Sniper Training (as I mentioned before).

I can only conclude that Steady Shot is affected by Black Arrow, but I need to do some more testing to be 100% sure. It would be nice if someone else could try to get an independent confirmation.

 

Dardon

I want to note that I used the ES glyph for BA/ES testing above, as it might increase EW uptime.

I did not update my earlier post last night, but Kill shot appears to be receiving the bonus at this time. I did two 100 shot runs of Kill Shot 16.1 & 20.4 minutes (using KS glyph). Two Kill shots per BA on the second run. 8.0% increase average non-crit/7.6% increase average crit.

Using the KS glyph helps the second run (with BA) go faster since you can use two KS per BA.

I also tested serpent sting, but I got some unexpected results and do not want to post them until I have a chance to confirm. I removed the SrS glyph for this test so BA & SrS both a have a 15 second duration. I put up BA followed immediately by SrS. Since BA falls off prior to the last tick of SrS only 4/5 ticks benefit and I would expect a 4.8% increase in average tick damage instead of 6%.

 

Antiganon

In what situation would you rather use a GCD on SilS (50% weapon dmg) over SS(weapon dmg + RAP*0.1 +252)?

 

Ristoril

Silencing shot is not on the global cool down on the ptr

 

• Scotch

Silencing shot is an instant cast. Hint: When you're moving.

<Bryne|work>: Scotch is one of the least terrible hunters I have ever had the extreme displeasure to raid with.

Das priest: Bellecose

 

Anindor

Yea 2 points in ISS is probably what I would do if you don't want to take advantage of FA to gear OUT of the extra hit. If you're running 10-mans a lot, or your 25-man runs don't have a pally judging wisdom and replenishment, then you might want to think about Rapid Recuperation since it's getting a good buff.

 

dssurge

14/52/5 is the highest MM spec I could come up with on the newest spreadsheet.

I intentionally adjusted my gear to Haste Cap, and assuming there are no bugs on the latest spread sheet or in game (I'm looking at you, Armor Pen), without much work I had an estimated DPS of ~6600 in currently available gear (except the upgraded Kirin Tor Ring.) I have no idea if this is a good number for the current PTR spreadsheet, but it's way higher than any numbers I've been able to get with MM on the live sheet.

Although Arcane shot appears on recount to be a sizable amount of your DPS, the only components lower than it are Aimed and Steady Shot when you take into account the fact that Chim controls all the damage for 3 portions of your DPS and AS isn't on Piercing Shots, so the 2 points in Survival Instincts are less than impressive.

Also, RR is amazing. You can go for almost 3 mins on a Training Dummy before you burn through your Rapid Fires. It does screw with your timers, but this is completely devoid of raid buffs, so assuming JoW and other applicable buffs, MM is probably one of the least OOM-prone specs assuming they leave RR @ 95%.

I really can't see why people want to gear out of FA. Any fight with AOE damage is going to fuck with your shot rotations which will probably lose you more DPS than working gear around FA would gain you. Every other class in the game embraces hit talents, and the only reason Hunters didn't is because it was broken in regards to our pets.