3.1 Upcoming Changes - Page 67

Anindor · 04/06/09, 8:35 AM

In a 25 man raid, I can't remember the last time I went OOM. Between general raid replenishment, BoW, and hunters insane scaling with Judgement of Wisdom even MM doesn't have mana issues with a decent raid setup. Yes, certain fights can be harder on mana than others but, when we're basically doing single target, mana is not an issue. With the changed to mana costs in 3.1 and increased value of Rapid Recuperation, I expect us to have even fewer issues.

Aestil · 04/06/09, 1:09 PM

I like the 11/55/5 spec to start off Ulduar. I think the shortened revive pet time will be useful, and at the moment, Aspect Mastery is still pretty good [obviously this will diminish as our gear improves in Ulduar] 7/x/7 spec should definitely hold higher potential for damage. Silencing Shot being a 'free' DPS increase is looking nice. Hopefully it stays that way.

@Anindor- in your 7/x/7 spec, what do you suggest doing if you are hit capped from gear already? I suppose at that point 2 or 3 points in ISS is the best we can do, even if it isn't very desirable.

Mugsley · 04/06/09, 2:51 PM

Originally Posted by Anindor

In a 25 man raid, I can't remember the last time I went OOM. Between general raid replenishment, BoW, and hunters insane scaling with Judgement of Wisdom even MM doesn't have mana issues with a decent raid setup. Yes, certain fights can be harder on mana than others but, when we're basically doing single target, mana is not an issue. With the changed to mana costs in 3.1 and increased value of Rapid Recuperation, I expect us to have even fewer issues.

The only issue may be if there are fights where Paladins can't reliably get to the boss to refresh JoW (Hodir comes to mind).

As far as Imp Tracking goes, I believe Mimiron will be the only boss that IT won't help. Maybe X-002 (or whatever it's called)as well? Flame Leviathan will be a vehicle fight, so IT won't matter anyway.

Bozorgmehr · 04/06/09, 3:06 PM

Thanks for the tests Dardon. I'll do some more (including auto shot) to confirm later tonight and will edit the results into this post.

Explosive Shot - Not affected
Without BA:
Average Tick (Noncrit): 744 Max: 832
Average Tick (Crit): 1741 Max: 1899

With BA:
Average Tick (Noncrit): 746 Max: 829
Average Tick (Crit): 1639 Max: 1877

Steady Shot - Affected
Without BA:
Average (Noncrit): 598 Max: 640
Average (Crit): 1327 Max: 1424

With BA:
Average (Noncrit): 631 Max: 678
Average (Crit): 1433 Max: 1515

Aimed Shot - Affected
Without BA:
Average (Noncrit): 835 Max: 874
Average (Crit): 1907 Max: 1962

With BA:
Average (Noncrit): 883 Max: 923
Average (Crit): 1989 Max: 2014

Auto Shot - Affected
Without BA:
Average (Noncrit): 578 Max: 628
Average (Crit): 1184 Max: 1253

With BA:
Average (Noncrit): 621 Max: 666
Average (Crit): 1275 Max: 1329

Kill Shot - Affected
Without BA:
Average (Noncrit): 2099 Max: 2132
Average (Crit): 4746 Max: 4752

With BA:
Average (Noncrit): 2242 Max: 2349
Average (Crit): 5082 Max: 5137

I'm tempted to try Arcane Shot, Multi-Shot, Scatter Shot, Volley, Melee Abilities and Fire Traps aswell, but those are slightly moot points. I may do them anyway for completeness if I have the time.

EDIT: I had a much lower than expected critical strike chance on some shots. I took off some pieces of gear and did not spec into proc talents (Sniper Training, Expose Weakness, Master Tactician, Imp Hawk, etc. My time was fairly limited so I didnt get a very huge sample. I only got 4 crits on Kill Shot over 36 shots and 12 crits on Aimed Shot over 72 shots. It could just be random chance, but it would be good to get some more tests in, I'll try again tomorrow. My paper doll crit was 25% (after taking off a few pieces of gear, like i said) and I didnt have the crit bonus on Kill Shot because I didn't take Sniper Training (as I mentioned before).

I can only conclude that Steady Shot is affected by Black Arrow, but I need to do some more testing to be 100% sure. It would be nice if someone else could try to get an independent confirmation.

Dardon · 04/06/09, 3:34 PM

I want to note that I used the ES glyph for BA/ES testing above, as it might increase EW uptime.

I did not update my earlier post last night, but Kill shot appears to be receiving the bonus at this time. I did two 100 shot runs of Kill Shot 16.1 & 20.4 minutes (using KS glyph). Two Kill shots per BA on the second run. 8.0% increase average non-crit/7.6% increase average crit.

Using the KS glyph helps the second run (with BA) go faster since you can use two KS per BA.

I also tested serpent sting, but I got some unexpected results and do not want to post them until I have a chance to confirm. I removed the SrS glyph for this test so BA & SrS both a have a 15 second duration. I put up BA followed immediately by SrS. Since BA falls off prior to the last tick of SrS only 4/5 ticks benefit and I would expect a 4.8% increase in average tick damage instead of 6%.

Antiganon · 04/06/09, 6:26 PM

Silencing Shot being a 'free' DPS increase is looking nice.

In what situation would you rather use a GCD on SilS (50% weapon dmg) over SS(weapon dmg + RAP*0.1 +252)?

Ristoril · 04/06/09, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by Antiganon

In what situation would you rather use a GCD on SilS (50% weapon dmg) over SS(weapon dmg + RAP*0.1 +252)?

Silencing shot is not on the global cool down on the ptr

Scotch · 04/06/09, 7:40 PM

Originally Posted by Antiganon

In what situation would you rather use a GCD on SilS (50% weapon dmg) over SS(weapon dmg + RAP*0.1 +252)?

Silencing shot is an instant cast. Hint: When you're moving.

Anindor · 04/06/09, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Aestil

@Anindor- in your 7/x/7 spec, what do you suggest doing if you are hit capped from gear already? I suppose at that point 2 or 3 points in ISS is the best we can do, even if it isn't very desirable.

Yea 2 points in ISS is probably what I would do if you don't want to take advantage of FA to gear OUT of the extra hit. If you're running 10-mans a lot, or your 25-man runs don't have a pally judging wisdom and replenishment, then you might want to think about Rapid Recuperation since it's getting a good buff.

dssurge · 04/07/09, 3:04 AM

14/52/5 is the highest MM spec I could come up with on the newest spreadsheet.

I intentionally adjusted my gear to Haste Cap, and assuming there are no bugs on the latest spread sheet or in game (I'm looking at you, Armor Pen), without much work I had an estimated DPS of ~6600 in currently available gear (except the upgraded Kirin Tor Ring.) I have no idea if this is a good number for the current PTR spreadsheet, but it's way higher than any numbers I've been able to get with MM on the live sheet.

Although Arcane shot appears on recount to be a sizable amount of your DPS, the only components lower than it are Aimed and Steady Shot when you take into account the fact that Chim controls all the damage for 3 portions of your DPS and AS isn't on Piercing Shots, so the 2 points in Survival Instincts are less than impressive.

Also, RR is amazing. You can go for almost 3 mins on a Training Dummy before you burn through your Rapid Fires. It does screw with your timers, but this is completely devoid of raid buffs, so assuming JoW and other applicable buffs, MM is probably one of the least OOM-prone specs assuming they leave RR @ 95%.

I really can't see why people want to gear out of FA. Any fight with AOE damage is going to fuck with your shot rotations which will probably lose you more DPS than working gear around FA would gain you. Every other class in the game embraces hit talents, and the only reason Hunters didn't is because it was broken in regards to our pets.

daragh · 04/07/09, 4:46 AM

Originally Posted by dssurge

14/52/5 I really can't see why people want to gear out of FA. Any fight with AOE damage is going to fuck with your shot rotations which will probably lose you more DPS than working gear around FA would gain you. Every other class in the game embraces hit talents, and the only reason Hunters didn't is because it was broken in regards to our pets.

This depends on what spec you are. As a BM hunter taking 3 pts in this seemed pointless cause it lowered my hit cap but did jack for the pet. Considering my pet is my major DPS factor, these points were wasted. I would rather invest them in talents like "go for the throat"

in WotLK you can find enough of gear that has hit in it to get you past 200 in hit rating. However with the new patch 3.1, the hit from FA is meant to impact our pets too... if this holds true, then there will be reason to reconsider the 3pts here...

Aftershock · 04/07/09, 4:47 AM

Hi all first time posting

Anyone know from the PTR if Furious Howl stacks mulitple times? ie more than one hunter in a raid group

Midnight · 04/07/09, 4:52 AM

Furious howl only affects the pet and hunter him-/herself in 3.1, so the question of stacking doesn´t really pose itself.

alienangel · 04/07/09, 5:11 AM

Originally Posted by dssurge

I really can't see why people want to gear out of FA. Any fight with AOE damage is going to fuck with your shot rotations which will probably lose you more DPS than working gear around FA would gain you. Every other class in the game embraces hit talents, and the only reason Hunters didn't is because it was broken in regards to our pets.

How much hit talents are worth to a class depends on:

a. (most important) what other talents you could take if you didn't take the hit talents

b. (less important) what your current tier of gear offers in terms of itemization for you - not just in terms of actual items, but also things like "is the 4 piece tier set bonus so good that we want to wear it, but the tier set has a 0 hit on it (or 8% hit on it)"

In our case on Live, I'm not sure FA affecting pets would yield higher dps by speccing into it, since our highest DPS spec happens to be survival which does have better talents to sink points into than FA, and which already gets hit from items that are better than the alternatives (e.g. frosted adroit) even aside from the +hit advantage. Also, our 4piece set bonus is not useful, so we have lots of room to pick up any good off-set hit piece we want.

The situation is definitely different in Ulduar, especially for MM, but I don't think we can make any conclusions about the results until we see how much hit Agalon 25 and YS25.Hard loot have on them, since they're likely the pieces we'll want to wear, and adjust our hit around with talents and other slots.

Aftershock · 04/07/09, 6:12 AM

Originally Posted by Midnight

Furious howl only affects the pet and hunter him-/herself in 3.1, so the question of stacking doesn´t really pose itself.

Ah thanks for that Midnight. I thought it took on same principles as Warriors shout. Effecting everyone in the raid