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Old 04/16/09, 3:08 AM   #1156
Phanuel
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Proudmoore
Not really, no. But it was an option. Currently we've got less options for LnL proc'ing.

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Old 04/16/09, 7:21 AM   #1157
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
I can only mirror those that feel it is a little heavy to carry around.

On the 'hectic' adds on Razorscale I felt I was playing whack-a-mole popping whatever was in sight. As someone has said, it feels like Aff locks, but with the further limitation that we can't just stand back and DoT all the mobs up, or spam Corruption and reap the benefits in terms of Shadowbolts, since most of our abilities have cooldowns, Black Arrow in particular.
We are horrendous in these spreadout mob situations, or at least it feels like that. Pre-patch it was less problematic to me.

On single target managing the plethora of cooldowns isn't an issue, after the first 15 seconds it becomes smooth and fairly easy to manage. And that might in fact be the reason it seems so clunky on the adds as they don't often live more than 10 seconds after we begin to focus them. So throughout the addphase we struggle with our cooldowns, trying to balance them against increasing our DPS. Clearly we are a single target DPS class.

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Old 04/16/09, 9:04 AM   #1158
Corbetti
Von Kaiser
 
Corbetti's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Thunderhorn (EU)
Originally Posted by sihyunie View Post
Quick napkin math on the changed rocket. Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket now deals 1440 to 1760 Fire damage (Up from 1035 to 1265), cooldown lowered from 1 min to 45 sec. I used the newest version of the spreadsheet and it gives me 1agi = 1.5dps, so 20 agi enchant is 30dps. It is equivalent to dealing 1350 damage every 45 sec. The average damage of the new rocket is 1600 and it can also crit, so I think it's probably worth using over 20 agility enchant. It definitely isn't as good as other profession benefit, but how cool is it to shoot rockets at the raid bosses!
On live the damage has been increased but its still 1 min CD.

Any Engineers made the switch?

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Old 04/16/09, 9:45 AM   #1159
xursa
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Hunter
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by KraxisSingular View Post
I can only mirror those that feel it is a little heavy to carry around.

On the 'hectic' adds on Razorscale I felt I was playing whack-a-mole popping whatever was in sight. As someone has said, it feels like Aff locks, but with the further limitation that we can't just stand back and DoT all the mobs up, or spam Corruption and reap the benefits in terms of Shadowbolts, since most of our abilities have cooldowns, Black Arrow in particular.
We are horrendous in these spreadout mob situations, or at least it feels like that. Pre-patch it was less problematic to me.

On single target managing the plethora of cooldowns isn't an issue, after the first 15 seconds it becomes smooth and fairly easy to manage. And that might in fact be the reason it seems so clunky on the adds as they don't often live more than 10 seconds after we begin to focus them. So throughout the addphase we struggle with our cooldowns, trying to balance them against increasing our DPS. Clearly we are a single target DPS class.
After a few attempts at Razorscale Ive concluded that indeed we are now a single target dps class with a surv build. There is a feeling of "hecktic akwardness" when dealing with multiple adds and any hint of mobility. I found that leaving BA out altogether and falling back to a more prepatch shot priority on add phases was more controlable. I understand that its a loss in dps to leave out a top prioritized shot, but leaving it in isnt benificial if your fumbling around like I am ATM. The add phase flowed better when I re-prioritized my shots. Maybe thats the point. Maybe BAs function in the priority sence is boss/add dependant. When faced with single target priority I could easily use the top priority rotation. Yes, there is still the issue of watching CDs more than I would like and taking my eyes off the fight, even with timer tracking add ons, but it isnt near the nightmare adds seem to create. I was at 3.4k-3.6k during single target boss encounters (10 man Ulduar) Not particurlarly happy with that as I was at the same dps hitting the target dummy with no buffs. Right now its a challenge, but thats what we want after all.

On a side note, and I apologize if this is in the thread, but I am at work and time is limited. Has anyone had the issue of Sniper Training procing and resetting continuously? I show it up all the time even if im in Dalaran doing some banking. It will count down to 1 then pop back to 15 and count down again.


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Old 04/16/09, 12:38 PM   #1160
Corbetti
Von Kaiser
 
Corbetti's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Thunderhorn (EU)
Originally Posted by xursa View Post
On a side note, and I apologize if this is in the thread, but I am at work and time is limited. Has anyone had the issue of Sniper Training procing and resetting continuously? I show it up all the time even if im in Dalaran doing some banking. It will count down to 1 then pop back to 15 and count down again.
Yes, I get this. Its mildly irritating rather than game breaking, but one feels its missing an in-combat check.

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Old 04/16/09, 12:45 PM   #1161
desseb
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by Corbetti View Post
On live the damage has been increased but its still 1 min CD.

Any Engineers made the switch?
Incorrect, the CD is properly 45sec on Live. I have switched and have incorporated it into my shot macros with a simple /use 10. When I get home i'll parse my combatlog from last nights 10 ulduar to see just how it did.

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Old 04/16/09, 1:44 PM   #1162
kabes
Von Kaiser
 
Pandaren Hunter
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by desseb View Post
Incorrect, the CD is properly 45sec on Live. I have switched and have incorporated it into my shot macros with a simple /use 10. When I get home i'll parse my combatlog from last nights 10 ulduar to see just how it did.
Weird when I tried it (right after patch went live) it was only hitting for around 900-something for me. it looked like the old damage. Is it possible it was hotfixed after that?

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Old 04/16/09, 1:52 PM   #1163
desseb
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by kabes View Post
Weird when I tried it (right after patch went live) it was only hitting for around 900-something for me. it looked like the old damage. Is it possible it was hotfixed after that?
That's possible, however I didn't really notice the dmg, too many numbers spamming my scrolling combat text lol. I'll edit my post with min-max numbers from my wws later tonight.

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Old 04/16/09, 2:21 PM   #1164
Tsook
chiefly comprised of water
 
Tsook's Avatar
 
Tsook
Troll Hunter
 
No WoW Account
Here's the line from my Ulduar WWS last night. /use 10 in all the shot macros.

1% of total damage
48 hits (72%)
1662 average
2064 max
19 crits (28%)
2524 average crit
3089 max crit
3.6% mitigated (all through partial resist)

I did find it more awkward than I thought for it to have the "10-second dps burst cooldown" -- a couple times I missed using my clicky trinket because it was on rocket-cooldown when I hit the "blow everything" macro.

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Old 04/16/09, 3:25 PM   #1165
desseb
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by Tsook View Post
Here's the line from my Ulduar WWS last night. /use 10 in all the shot macros.

1% of total damage
48 hits (72%)
1662 average
2064 max
19 crits (28%)
2524 average crit
3089 max crit
3.6% mitigated (all through partial resist)

I did find it more awkward than I thought for it to have the "10-second dps burst cooldown" -- a couple times I missed using my clicky trinket because it was on rocket-cooldown when I hit the "blow everything" macro.
That's one advantage to having proc based trinkets heh.

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Old 04/16/09, 4:47 PM   #1166
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
Originally Posted by xursa View Post
After a few attempts at Razorscale Ive concluded that indeed we are now a single target dps class with a surv build. There is a feeling of "hecktic akwardness" when dealing with multiple adds and any hint of mobility. I found that leaving BA out altogether and falling back to a more prepatch shot priority on add phases was more controlable. I understand that its a loss in dps to leave out a top prioritized shot, but leaving it in isnt benificial if your fumbling around like I am ATM. The add phase flowed better when I re-prioritized my shots. Maybe thats the point. Maybe BAs function in the priority sence is boss/add dependant. When faced with single target priority I could easily use the top priority rotation. Yes, there is still the issue of watching CDs more than I would like and taking my eyes off the fight, even with timer tracking add ons, but it isnt near the nightmare adds seem to create. I was at 3.4k-3.6k during single target boss encounters (10 man Ulduar) Not particurlarly happy with that as I was at the same dps hitting the target dummy with no buffs. Right now its a challenge, but thats what we want after all.

On a side note, and I apologize if this is in the thread, but I am at work and time is limited. Has anyone had the issue of Sniper Training procing and resetting continuously? I show it up all the time even if im in Dalaran doing some banking. It will count down to 1 then pop back to 15 and count down again.
Most definately leaving out BA is important. I saved mine for the big Sentinels, but even then it was perhaps better served not to given that once I hadn't kept an eye on the harpoons and so Razorscale landed just as I had popped it. Felt rather dumb then. But even without BA Survival is only just managing, and the combat remains a stutter to me. I don't know about BM or MM on the fight, I guess I will have to ask the MM hunter that went in with me. However I do remember him being somewhat overwhelmed at times as he laughed about forgetting abilities etc. Might come from the important aspect of Serpent Sting, making retargeting slow and heavy if you want to do any sort of respectable DPS on such adds.

I'm actually pretty happy about Sniper Training. I knew it would tick like that, so I feared I would get highly annoyed by it (OMG is it going to blink? Is it going to stand out in bright colours?), but I happily forgot all about it. It is a nicely bland bufficon, yet it is instantly obvious if you look at the buffbars. This was something that surprised me in a very positive way.

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Old 04/16/09, 4:47 PM   #1167
Corbetti
Von Kaiser
 
Corbetti's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Thunderhorn (EU)
Originally Posted by desseb View Post
Incorrect, the CD is properly 45sec on Live. I have switched and have incorporated it into my shot macros with a simple /use 10. When I get home i'll parse my combatlog from last nights 10 ulduar to see just how it did.
Its 1 min in the engineering page, but 45 secs when actually tinkered.

I got an average damage of 1918 in Naxx10 tonight, i.e. 42.6 DPS. I have it bound along with KC to Explosive Shot.

Last edited by Corbetti : 04/16/09 at 5:15 PM.

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Old 04/16/09, 5:59 PM   #1168
alienangel
Bald Bull
 
alienangel's Avatar
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Eredar
Only did Ignis and X-52, have been rather enjoying the new shot mechanics as Survival. DPS seemed up across the board.

Switching to adds on X-52 and Ignis didn't feel particularly bad (I did miss the added range from Hawk Eye though, especially on the pre-ignis trash that knocks you out of range...), used black arrow when it cooled down if the target I was on was going to live a reasonable amount of time.

New LnL most definitely doesn't have a cooldown, had many back to back procs.

Barely noticed Sniper Training all night, don't think it fell off much if at all.

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Old 04/17/09, 4:17 AM   #1169
Rhy
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Maelstrom (EU)
After doing Ulduar for the past few days ( Freya, Mirmiron, Vezaxx and Yogg-Saron left ) I really feel that the Surv rotation is getting a bit too clunky. I can still produce 5500 dps, but at the cost of almost dieing from a number of AoE abilities.
However, for the last night's raid I made BM my 2nd spec. And tbh I got amazed by how easy I could produce the same results that I had as Surv or even higher in some cases, even though I still had my Surv equipment ( agility gems and enchants ).

So in the end, Surv looks great on paper, but actually getting everything right at least while learning bosses is really stressful and frustrating at times. Does anyone else feel like this? Or is it just me failing to time my shots... I am really confused atm.

Edit: The people who are doing WWS didn't do it after the raid but probably I can provide some WWS parses a bit later.

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Old 04/17/09, 4:26 AM   #1170
MetallicaRulez0
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Stormrage
I've really been enjoying MM so far in Ulduar. The plethora of instant shots makes the add fights much easier. Only problems so far have been running oom if our Ret dies, which he often does.

I think it's tough to go by the spreadsheet when Survival is so clunky and RNG-based. Supposedly Survival should be a few hundred DPS ahead of MM for me, but I don't think very many people can perfect their Survival rotation during a real Ulduar encounter. There's too much going on to be able to stare at your cooldowns like you can in Naxx.

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