Most (if not all) of the "top" raids/parses already include a retribution paladin, who brings the same buff as FI (plus some others that raids really want). That may be why many raids can afford to have all the hunters spec SV or MM.

But if there isn't a Retribution paladin, then yes, a raid might get more from a single hunter specced as BM (assuming they also don't need someone for Replenishment).

You guys should look at BM more viable then just for an FI buff - Just got finished with Iron Council killing the Runeseer last on 25 man - As BM I put out 250,000 (5640 dps) more damage then anyone else in the raid.

You'll also notice on the spreadsheet there is a breaking point for BM where you benefit more from ARP gem stacking then AP stacking.

Provided you have the gear with no +hit on it you can switch over to a Grim Troll and wear stuff like Grobbulus Belt, Ring of Invincibility.

On the spreadsheet (provided it is calculating ARP correctly) using the items mentioned above is 1-2 DPS better then a Fury of the Fives set-up with a Torn Web Wrapping and a Strong-Hard Ring.

At some point after getting the Polearm from General or so you will break off and enable yourself to to stack to ARP (again, provided the spreadsheet is right).

My physical damage on Iron Council was ruffly 72% making this 100% viable. It was higher then a combat rogue in my raid by 4% or so.

I don't think anyone posting in this thread considers BM as only viable for the FI buff. They are just discussing the relative value of it as a raid buff.

I did some testing tonight in Ulduar 25 on XT. We currently have 2 pallys so basically I'm only getting Might/kings. I find myself going quite low throughout the fight. Using the 53/11/7 spec I was doing completely fine, but I decided to switch my 2 points in Survival Instincts over to 2 in Invigoration. From there on I never had to go into viper. I think its definitely worth the investment if you don't have a 3rd pally for wisdom.

Yeah, if it is possible to get correct values in the spreadsheet it would help out a lot.

With the current spreadsheet it says you need 360 passive haste before you can start gemming for Arp.

I know the Warriors are taking hard looks at ARP especially the Arms warriors since their Stance is ARP. I don't know Landsoul has it right for the warrior spreadsheet or not but if he does perhaps we can manage to use that formula for the hunter one.

Just for a 2 cent input on FI.

I've been specced MM for te last several razorscale tries because I've been used to having a retridin in the radi. Our retridin has gone prot however, so suddenly the 3% increased raid damage was gone, and no one noticed.
I decided to gove BM a chance because I felt my dps was too low on razorscale during the landings (for some reason the spreadsheet agrees that my overall dps is lower as MM - but personal dps is very much higher than as BM).

When I specced BM we went from doing ~17-18% damage on razorscale per down to doing 27% on the first down (with BL). Obviously its not all FI, but looking at who died when FI had a huge contributatory part in that.
For the last try our protidin went ret because we had plenty of tanks, so FI was cancelled out, but I still saw a better dps output because my pet fully gained from WF and BL moreso than me.

I have since implemented the values detailed in the Combat Ratings at 80 thread on how ArP is handled.

I think t7 or better gear already has enough hit built in to reach the hit cap.

My gear doesn't so I goot 3/3 Focused Aim...

Now with the new wolf howl how will wolf work vs devilasur as BM? BM howl is 206 ap as average over 31 sec compared to normal 160. Feels like devilasur will still end out on top though.

maybe this has been covered but i have a question, cobra strikes effects pet special attack, unless i am miisunderstanding this talent is 100% worthless if you go as BM and use a wolf. would this be correct?

Bite (and claw, and smack) are all pet "special attacks." Cobra strikes will make those crit if your pet doesn't have a family special that crits.

The range on SR is as wide as the paladin's aura, which is 40 yards. It's not hard to be within range of that. Plus it's always up as long as the paladin is. The raid loses FI if the pet dies or more often, has to stop attacking something long enough for it to fade, or if the pet gets an unlucky string of non crits.