Raiding with Beast Mastery in 3.3.3 and beyond - Page 12

CureFC · 04/25/09, 2:07 AM

edit: Way too slow.

halabar · 04/26/09, 3:34 AM

Running as BM with 53/11/7 in Nax25 tonight, I was running ~4500 dps on Patchwerk, with a still not optimized rotation (macroed). Seems that we are doing OK in 25-mans, but the falloff is step without the 25-man buffs.

chronaden · 04/26/09, 9:23 AM

What is the haste cap from gear @ BM hunter? i mean, when will haste start to work against you instead?

Holas · 04/26/09, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by chronaden

What is the haste cap from gear @ BM hunter? i mean, when will haste start to work against you instead?

Presuming you take the 20% haste talent in the beast master tree you become soft haste caped. With that plus 15% from auto shot. (old quiver)

chronaden · 04/26/09, 11:49 AM

So thats 0 haste from gear :P

Homarid · 04/26/09, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by King-Slide

There's one thing troubling me:

Why is everyone going the 8%Hit 2/5 Mortal Shots Route?
Wouldn't it be better to go for 6% Hit and 2/3 Focussed Aim?

Mortal Shots is a mediocre talent for BM and FA was fixed to give our pets the +hit bonus.
In theory, this would free up 65 points on our gear equalling 130 ap.

Whenever I try out focused aim on the spreadsheet I get lower dps than gearing for the hit. Are you seeing an increase?

Zigazaha · 04/26/09, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by Homarid

Whenever I try out focused aim on the spreadsheet I get lower dps than gearing for the hit. Are you seeing an increase?

Putting 3 talent points into Focused aim instead of gearing for hit is going to be a Dps loss.
The reason for this is you loose 3 talent points that could be put elsewhere for a greater Dps gain.
Hopefully most of your hit is built into your gear though.

Qrt · 04/26/09, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by chronaden

So thats 0 haste from gear :P

Well no, not exactly; besides some haste is probably unavoidable.

For a BM with our 5/5 Serpents Swiftness you don't need more +haste to get your SS cast speed down to the GCD. But any haste you add will give you faster auto-shots. And the auto-shot at current gear-levels hits as hard or harder than Steady Shot. So the +haste isn't wasted as such, it would just have been better if the items were itemized with +AP or perhaps +crit, as they give us more bang for our buck.

ghaleonausa · 04/26/09, 7:36 PM

Originally Posted by TrevvyTrev

Bite (and claw, and smack) are all pet "special attacks." Cobra strikes will make those crit if your pet doesn't have a family special that crits.

thanks, thinking talent should just say " all pets attacks" and not say special attacks.

Iru · 04/26/09, 9:54 PM

No, because pets do white melee damage as well. It's just that since WotLK, all pets have a focus dump - bite, claw, or smack, depending on the pet family - and that attack is always affected by cobra strikes, even if the pet's family specific attack cannot crit, e.g. wolf's howl.

Try turning of your wolf's bite and send it to attack a dummy. It will still do damage.

Alex400 · 04/27/09, 12:24 AM

I´m getting some weird results here. How much dps you guys doing on heroic dummy with only Hawk aspect active ?

My armory

SV - 3300 (3000 me - 300 cat) 0-15-56 - KS/ES/SS glyphs

BM - 2900 (2000 me - 900 devilsaur) 53-11-7 - BW/SS/IAoH glyphs

Latency 140 ms

All my slots are filled with AP gems, so shouldn´t my BM dps score be closer to SV´s ?

My rotation for SV: KS - ES - AS - SrS - SS

BM: KS - ArS - SrS - SS

Vanadizzle · 04/27/09, 4:30 AM

Originally Posted by Alex400

I´m getting some weird results here. How much dps you guys doing on heroic dummy with only Hawk aspect active ?

My armory

SV - 3300 (3000 me - 300 cat) 0-15-56 - KS/ES/SS glyphs

BM - 2900 (2000 me - 900 devilsaur) 53-11-7 - BW/SS/IAoH glyphs

Latency 140 ms

All my slots are filled with AP gems, so shouldn´t my BM dps score be closer to SV´s ?

My rotation for SV: KS - ES - AS - SrS - SS

BM: KS - ArS - SrS - SS

I`d recommend using the Killshot glyph instead of the Hawk glyph. Also try to weave in Multishots. More damage at the expense of some mana. I was able to pull off 3.2- 3.3k dps with my, slightly different spec than yours.

bish73 · 04/28/09, 6:28 AM

Originally Posted by Vanadizzle

I`d recommend using the Killshot glyph instead of the Hawk glyph. Also try to weave in Multishots. More damage at the expense of some mana. I was able to pull off 3.2- 3.3k dps with my, slightly different spec than yours.

Hey Vanadizzle,

You and I are similarly geared, although I have nothing from Ulduar yet. We also seem to be gemming a lot of Agility against what the spreadsheet says. I just switched to the Hawk glyph from Serpent Sting and was using the new Spirit Beast, Gondria. I was able to pull down about 3150 dps, I did use multi-shot in my shot rotation as well. Going to try Killshot glyph when the prices drop on my server a bit.

I am curious, since I'm on a Mac and don't have a Windows copy of Excel to be able to use the Spreadsheet, how much of a boost will gemming for AP give and how much AP should we aiming for especially at the expense of Crit. I haven't seen any really straight forward discussions on this (please point me to it if I missed a good one). I know pet's inherit AP but my theory has always been that the Crit I get from Agility is going to make Cobra Strikes more effective thus causing my pet to Crit causing FI to go off more causing more damage from Arcane Shot and so on. (just a note: I'm terrible at Mathematics so I'm not basing that on any real world data heh) I'm happy with where I'm at but I'd like to try switching to AP gems to see what it would do. Just kind of an expensive experiment hehe.

I've also found that I tend to top Damage and DPS over most of the Survival Hunter I've run with. Not sure if that is because they are just bad Survival Hunters or not. I tried Survival when 3.1 came out and just couldn't wrap my brain around the Shot Priority (getting too old I think :P) but I'd much rather be the best Beast Master Hunter I can be then a bad Survival Hunter any day. Since I have not made it into Ulduar I'm anxious to see how pet friendly or unfriendly it is.

Keruen · 04/28/09, 7:13 AM

Putting 3 talent points into Focused aim instead of gearing for hit is going to be a Dps loss.
The reason for this is you loose 3 talent points that could be put elsewhere for a greater Dps gain.
Hopefully most of your hit is built into your gear though.

That would make sense except for the fact that we HAVE to put 10 points into MM in order to get GFTT. And the choices in MM aside from Careful Aim and Lethal Shots are Mortal Shots and Focused Aim. Focused Aim is easily the superior DPS talent of the two - how is choosing 2% more hit for both yourself and your pet inferior to a talent that only increases crit damage of non-auto shots (when auto is a huge portion of our damage)? The answer is: it isn't. Now that Focused Aim applies to pets, it is by far the better talent. That 2% hit from the talent means that you could switch gems/enchants around to provide more AP, which will give a better DPS benefit than Mortal Shots.

Unfortunately, the reason a lot of people don't take Focused Aim is that sometimes you just can't get rid of enough hit on your gear. It's incredibly easy to reach the hit cap for a hunter, especially if you're a Draenei. So yes, if all your gems/enchants are already AP and you're still hit capped, then taking Focused Aim will do nothing for you (except the pushback reduction on SS). However, if you can get gear upgrades that do NOT have hit on them, it's better to do that and get 2% hit from Focused Aim. Mortal Shots is nothing but a filler talent, and should definitely be avoided if you can remove enough hit from your gear to make taking Focused Aim possible.

Ritalian · 04/28/09, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by bish73

Hey Vanadizzle,

...... but I'd much rather be the best Beast Master Hunter I can be then a bad Survival Hunter any day. Since I have not made it into Ulduar I'm anxious to see how pet friendly or unfriendly it is.

Well I've been in Ulduar 4 nights now and so far (we haven't downed Ignis):

Flame Leviathan - just dismiss your pet and live without it. You don't need it in vehicles.
Razorscale - as long as your tanks keep the mobs away from the blue fire so that your pet isn't in it then you will have no problem. Mine even ran through it to reach targets and although hurt, never died.
XT - No problem at all - I found pet very handy to leave on the heart whilst I Volley'd any incoming scrapbots.
Ignis - can't survive long enough to find out. Okay that's a lie, but even getting caught in the odd scorch it doesn't seem to cause a problem.

Maybe I've improved, but I am definitely finding it easier to keep pet alive so far than I did in Naxx initially.