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Old 07/11/09, 1:50 AM   #301
Vøà d
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Gorefiend
Actually On the yogg fight if you go into the portal and come back out your pet does stay on the brain and keeps attacking. I had to go Surv after 3.08 but am looking back into BM for that fight since in phase 1 I seem to be holding back my dps in order to not kill the adds before they get to sara anyway. I'm hoping the extra pet dps saves us a portal phase since the last time we go in we seem to be on the brain for like 5 sec

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Old 07/13/09, 11:46 PM   #302
Marthel
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Vø� d View Post
Actually On the yogg fight if you go into the portal and come back out your pet does stay on the brain and keeps attacking. I had to go Surv after 3.08 but am looking back into BM for that fight since in phase 1 I seem to be holding back my dps in order to not kill the adds before they get to sara anyway. I'm hoping the extra pet dps saves us a portal phase since the last time we go in we seem to be on the brain for like 5 sec
Interestingly in the Paragon Yogg-Saron + 0 Video (mmo-champion has a link) there appears to be a Devilsaur (and thus a BM hunter) in the mix. I wonder if it's for this exact reason.

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Old 07/14/09, 12:50 AM   #303
Lupius
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Black Dragonflight
Haven't noticed my pet's whereabouts as I leave the brain realm, but it usually despawns (out of range?) by the time I reach the green beam to recharge sanity. I'll keep a close eye on it this week.

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Old 07/14/09, 1:08 AM   #304
Elanessë
Glass Joe
 
Elanessë's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Kor'gall (EU)
The location of the brain room is directly below yogg's main room. When you get spat out his mouth if you stay close to the centre of the room then your pet will indeed contine to attack the brain. However, any attempt to move away from the central area will cause you to outrange your pet causing it to despawn.

In regards to the Paragon 0 kill, as in a 0 keeper kill you get zero sanity refresh so this would be a non-issue anyways.

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Old 07/14/09, 9:29 PM   #305
Scotch
Soda Popinski
 
Scotch's Avatar
 
Bellecose
Troll Priest
 
<NME>
No WoW Account
I suspect the Paragon reasoning is either extra brain dps or an idea that BM will be a better spec for burning through p3 due to less dps loss during Lunatic Gaze - or both.

<Blackpatch>: i feel so bad for north koreans
<Blackpatch>: imagine
<Blackpatch>: there are kids living 30 miles north of seoul
<Blackpatch>: who have never heard of banelings

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Old 07/15/09, 2:35 AM   #306
Rhy
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
I will go for the 2nd reason. I tried the BM spec last night on 3 keepers. I did more damage on the brain than all the others, but only just ahead of the rogue. Compared to the previous week's Yogg 4 keepers, where I was MM, I did ~70k damage less with BM. I just can't tell how much of this is due to the one extra keeper. Still, it performs reasonably well in P3 and killing Corruptors in P2, so I think that's why they used it.
However, I encountered a problem last night. If I leave the pet to dps the brain and leave, I get thrown too far away from the center of the room and the pet despawns. The other hunter in the guild suggested using Disengage to stay close, which only works if I disengage in exactly the right moment so that when I get knocked away from Yogg the second time, I will still be close enough to him. Is there something I am missing or that's the only way to do it?

Oh, and also, what I noticed on the Paragon movie, at least the hunter using Devilsaur does not run into the portals. I couldn't see what are the others doing tho.

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Old 07/15/09, 12:26 PM   #307
Derchizul
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Hunter
 
Zenedar (EU)
I think they wanted the +3%dmg buff for all raid, thats why they chose a BM hunter to tag along.

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Old 07/15/09, 7:13 PM   #308
TrevvyTrev
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Gilneas
Originally Posted by Derchizul View Post
I think they wanted the +3%dmg buff for all raid, thats why they chose a BM hunter to tag along.
They didn't have a ret paladin?

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Old 07/16/09, 10:59 AM   #309
DiamondTear
Don Flamenco
 
DiamondTear's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by TrevvyTrev View Post
They didn't have a ret paladin?
We did.

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Old 07/16/09, 11:17 AM   #310
Korghal
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Ahn'Qiraj (EU)
Originally Posted by DiamondTear View Post
We did.
Then you must tell us! Why the BM hunter?

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Old 07/19/09, 3:07 AM   #311
Nova442
Glass Joe
 
Troll Hunter
 
Drenden
I'm more interested in the spec chosen for the Yogg fight since IT is worthless. 54/17? 54/14/3 to try and try to hug the center to keep the pet on the brain?

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Old 07/19/09, 7:00 PM   #312
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
Originally Posted by Nova442 View Post
I'm more interested in the spec chosen for the Yogg fight since IT is worthless. 54/17? 54/14/3 to try and try to hug the center to keep the pet on the brain?
Obviously not since that Devilsaur was roaming about on the outside. But I would like to hear about this too. What was it that made BM attractive for the fight? Now that the pet wasn't on the brain I can't really see any good advantage.

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Old 07/19/09, 7:18 PM   #313
 arison
Don Flamenco
 
arison's Avatar
 
Gnome Priest
 
Windrunner
For a Freya-less kill, you regularly need to turn away from the boss *before* the sanity-draining cast starts, which can be a big DPS drain; perhaps the BM advantage would be allowing more of your DPS to continue full-time (since it doesn't need to face away).

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Old 07/20/09, 4:37 AM   #314
Juuni
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Thunderhorn (EU)
Well, thats a really good point to use it on the hardest phase. And focus will last long enough till you turn back again.
Now it really depends how much dps is the pet pushing right?

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Old 07/20/09, 1:41 PM   #315
Neruse
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Sargeras
I doubt BM would be superior. I am able to dps with instants during Gaze; if you spin your character fast enough you can use ExS/Chim/whatever and even Kill Shot (but that takes some practice).

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Old 07/20/09, 3:51 PM   #316
Beachwanderer
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by Neruse View Post
I doubt BM would be superior. I am able to dps with instants during Gaze; if you spin your character fast enough you can use ExS/Chim/whatever and even Kill Shot (but that takes some practice).
The easy answer to this is to model your dps as BM and MM on the spread sheet without Steady Shots. If BM is already higher dps then we know for a fact it is better. If it is close then it may be better because you will still get some steady shots off as BM. If it's no where near then it is not likely BM will exceed in dps. I have done this, and am going with BM for Yog.

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Old 07/20/09, 5:21 PM   #317
Lilbitters
Piston Honda
 
Troll Hunter
 
Mug'thol
Also, being BM would allow your pet to continue full DPS on Yogg-Saron while you are at range using Distracting Shot and kiting the Marked Immortal Guardians into place before the Shadow Beacon heals.

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Old 07/21/09, 12:14 AM   #318
Esoth
Bald Bull
 
Esoth's Avatar
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Beachwanderer View Post
The easy answer to this is to model your dps as BM and MM on the spread sheet without Steady Shots. If BM is already higher dps then we know for a fact it is better. If it is close then it may be better because you will still get some steady shots off as BM. If it's no where near then it is not likely BM will exceed in dps. I have done this, and am going with BM for Yog.
Not to doubt the value of BM on phase 3 (and phase 2 if you can keep it in the brain room) but is MM really the best spec to be comparing it against for Yogg? Setting the sub 20% to 2/3 of the fight, with a typical survival spec and the kill shot glyph, I'm seeing some pretty good results in the spreadsheet.


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Old 07/21/09, 10:35 AM   #319
Beachwanderer
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by Esoth View Post
Not to doubt the value of BM on phase 3 (and phase 2 if you can keep it in the brain room) but is MM really the best spec to be comparing it against for Yogg? Setting the sub 20% to 2/3 of the fight, with a typical survival spec and the kill shot glyph, I'm seeing some pretty good results in the spreadsheet.
You are correct. I am still toying with the spreadsheet and live results, including using Kill Shot Glyph as BM. Keep in mind that I am specifically focusing on what would be best for One Light in the Darkness and Alone in the Darkness. My guild just got Heroic:Firefighter down so we will be doing Hard Mode Yog in the very near future and I have short time to be prepared. As of last night we ez moded Yog and I was able to keep my pet in the room only 1 of the 2 phase changes. Until I can get 2 good ones in I won't know if we can skip a brain phase by doing this (or how many hunters it would take). Also if hunters have to pull adds away from the tanks during P3, would BM not to produce better dps since you are out ranging Yog to do your job?

Also did you make sure to take away Improved tracking since it has no use on that fight? You also get nearly no steady shots off as Surv in this situation as welll, esp if you drop below 20 Sanity reaching a real danger zone.

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Old 07/21/09, 11:04 AM   #320
Lupius
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Black Dragonflight
Oh I guess they fixed the bug where your pet simply despawns when you put it on yogg in phase 2 brain phase and phase 3. And I thought BM was useless for this fight...

Next week it's gonna be my glyphed aspect of the pack with 2/2 Pathfinding in the brain phase!

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Old 07/22/09, 10:27 AM   #321
Beachwanderer
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Lightning's Blade
Delete, double post.

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Old 07/22/09, 10:28 AM   #322
Beachwanderer
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by Lupius View Post
Oh I guess they fixed the bug where your pet simply despawns when you put it on yogg in phase 2 brain phase and phase 3. And I thought BM was useless for this fight...

Next week it's gonna be my glyphed aspect of the pack with 2/2 Pathfinding in the brain phase!
I had completely forgot about Pathfinding, what an excellent suggestion!

@ Esoth
I made the change of using kill shot 2/3 of the fight and see a dps gain of Kill Shot over Hawk for the BM build (this makes sense). Do you have any other suggestions on how to better model the dps loss due to turning around for gazes? Also do you think it is possible for Glyph of the Beast to find it's way into the build? Here is what I'm going with atm: 55/16/0

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Old 07/24/09, 11:31 AM   #323
Criven
Glass Joe
 
Troll Hunter
 
Steamwheedle Cartel (EU)
I've been playing around with the PTR version of Shandara's sheet (standard 53/13/5 - like Shandara's BM template but with one less point of frenzy and an extra point of mortal shots).

Basically, by switching out the gems in Shandara's default gear for AP, switching to Spiced Mammoth treats and speccing the pet BM with the 4 extra points. I've been able to get to within about 70 DPS of the out of the box MM template. (7042 vs. 6974)

Can someone confirm I haven't just screwed up, and if the MM template in the spreadsheet is anyway correct please?

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Old 07/24/09, 2:35 PM   #324
Pocidon
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Windrunner
Originally Posted by Praxx View Post
One item that has helped me some on Yogg is the following macro.

/target Corruptor Tentacle
/target Constrictor Tentacle
/petattack

It will send the pet to a Constrictor Tentacle if one is up and a Corruptor if not. I know these are not the primary targets but it is better than having my pet standing around.
This would work a little better and wouldn't force you to change targets. It could also be inserted into any of your shot macros.

/petattack [target=Corruptor Tentacle]
/petattack [target=Constrictor Tentacle]

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Old 07/24/09, 5:41 PM   #325
Lilbitters
Piston Honda
 
Troll Hunter
 
Mug'thol
Originally Posted by Pocidon View Post
This would work a little better and wouldn't force you to change targets. It could also be inserted into any of your shot macros.

/petattack [target=Corruptor Tentacle]
/petattack [target=Constrictor Tentacle]
That actually isn't possible to do because the only elgible targets are:
[target=RaidUnit]

Commands with mobs are blocked such as:
[target=MobName]

The closest you could do would be:
/targetexact MobName
/petattack
/targetlasttarget

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