Raiding with Beast Mastery in 3.3.3 and beyond - Page 9

Crydak · 04/17/09, 9:00 PM

A devilsaur is quite superior than a Wolf if you specc deep BM (51 point talent) according to the spreadsheet.

Nooska · 04/18/09, 8:52 AM

Devilsaur is better on paper, thats true but there are 2 hold ups for devilsurs (at least in my book):

1) Accessibility - you will have to go to un'goro to be pretty sure to get one, and you have to level it (compared to the wolf which is instant lvl 80)
2) Hit box - the defvilsaur still has a huges hitbox with problems resulting from that (last I heard, I haven't tested it myself)

I can see myself going to pick up a devilsaur at some point if 2 is resolved, but the wolf is simply more practical to deal with for a very very slight decrease in dps (and we don't have to worry about switching pets when switching specs)

Rinsenrepeat · 04/18/09, 9:13 AM

theres a level 70 one in netherstorm, not that is much less out of the way though.

KraxisSingular · 04/18/09, 9:15 AM

Normal King Dred can be tamed. Of course it requires a nice group to help you.

The Devilsaur also annoys the melee rather often. Big red and noisy.

Nebelwerfer · 04/18/09, 9:24 AM

Originally Posted by Landais

Do you use a wolf in bm spec ?

Yea he is.

Mimiron we seemed to be very even, but the SV hunters were kiting and so Inter managed to pull ahead. BM looks to be in a very good place at the moment.

• Intermission · 04/18/09, 9:28 PM

Yeah, Wolf.

The damage difference according to the spreadsheet wasn't huge, and every other factor favours a wolf:

- When you swap to a different spec for a fight, your wolf still works, without having to rely on a 30 min cooldown.
- Hitbox isnt stupidly large. So for fights like Sarth(flame wall), Mimiron(shockblast), Assembly of Iron(overload), etc, the pet can be more easily moved out.
- He is nice and small. A big pet in the way of melee would not just be an annoyance, but a serious problem to melee in some fights. On Mimiron, we even went to the degree of kiting certain mobs and killing them in a particular place, so the melee could have a better view of the ground (land mines). Every bit of visibility helps.

Forage · 04/19/09, 12:04 AM

What about this for a pet DPS spec?

Heart of the Phoenix

I run a lot of PUGs, and must say that not having to wait for Revive Pet + Mend Pet is very useful

Nova442 · 04/19/09, 1:11 AM

Giving up 6% pet damage as BM for HotP is madness.

Nooska · 04/19/09, 4:20 AM

Pre 3.1 I had HotP in my ferocity pets - I hardly ever used it. Yes thats me being stupid, but 3.2 seconds of casting (2 gcds) and send pet in while casting mend pet seems a lot better as long as the pet isn't sent straight in to damage of course.

I haven't done any math on it - and won't as it will vary from fight to fight how often your pet dies, but I am pretty sure 6% increased damage overall will outweigh losing 2 gcd (2 steadies) plus the autoshots for a talented and glyphed revive pet.

Nebelwerfer · 04/19/09, 4:22 AM

Originally Posted by Forage

What about this for a pet DPS spec?

Heart of the Phoenix

I run a lot of PUGs, and must say that not having to wait for Revive Pet + Mend Pet is very useful

Keeping your pet alive is more useful.

Fetknopp · 04/19/09, 4:46 AM

I've read a lot here over the time, now it's time to do my first post.

I have seen a some spreadsheet tests between wolf and devilsaur, but no real world data.
So i figured i could add my 2 cents to the discussion. The calculations will be made on my gear which is a bit low, all pre naxx, hitcapped, AP 3.6k, crit 25.45%.

First off: The Wolf will definately be better the lower your gear is, straight +320AP vs +9%.
On my gear, infinite time, game data, average.

Devilsaur:
Main Attack: 417,7 dps
Mounstrous Bite: 15,3 dps
Total: 433 dps
Total with MB bonus over time: 471,9 dps

Wolf
Total: 417,7 dps
Total with Furius Howl: 494,8dps
FH bonus uptime: 71.4%
Total with FH bonus over time: 472,8 dps

So the wolf is better allready here with my gear.
Add to this the 320AP increase for me which is 8.9% and the choice is really simple.

You also have to take into account how a fight looks. The MB bonus needs a minimum of 14 seconds to reach 9%, FH is up directly. This naturally means that on short fights the wolf will be better.

I tested this on a heroic training dummy. It's a 1 minute fight with the standard human errors, hit SS to early there, missed AS there... The results are very obvious though.

DPS with Wolf (tinypic)
DPS with Devilsaur (tinypic)

I think i noticed this in 5-man heroics too, the Devilsaur only shines when the fights are long. If the group is good and the tempo is very hectic i tend to do very bad, dps as low as ~1800. If i'm running with a group with bad dps my personal dps is higher ~2200.

I will start to use the wolf from now on, see how it feels.

My only objection is how it looks, the Wolf i plain ugly. Might have to go for the Vargul in ZD, looks a bit better.

Landais · 04/19/09, 7:01 AM

Yeah the stormspike wolf is ugly but it's a 80 pet :p

I'm agree with Intermission, the devilsaur is nice on paper but it's very noisy and big especially when bw is up.

Squinky001 · 04/20/09, 3:22 AM

Originally Posted by Intermission

- When you swap to a different spec for a fight, your wolf still works, without having to rely on a 30 min cooldown.

I'm not sure if it's intended but on live swapping between your dual specs resets the CD on Call Stabled Pet. That said, I don't know if it would function the same with an exotic pet though I imagine it would as your pet is auto-dismissed when you change specs. (Likely for the very reason of a BM hunter with an Exotic pet switching to another spec and needing to swap out pets without tracking down a stable master.)

Ritalian · 04/20/09, 5:14 AM

Originally Posted by Nebelwerfer

Keeping your pet alive is more useful.

I think I agree as well. I am pretty okay at keeping my pet alive (use on passive in Heigan/OS) but when it does die it's because things aren't going so well in the raid so the last thing the raid needs is for me to stop DPSing and start casting revive

That's my gut feeling on it and is why I always take it for my ferocity pets.

kabes · 04/20/09, 8:38 AM

Last night I was mostly neck and neck with another hunter in my guild who was swapping between MM and SV. He is also slightly better geared so BM held up pretty well!

On XT-002 attempts I varied between 4500-5200 dps depending on how many gravity/light bombs I got. I was using a Wolf. Spec was 55/15/1 (wanted aimed shot and invigoration). [Saronite Mesh Legguards] dropped from Razorscale before that