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Old 12/30/10, 12:56 PM   #421
Xaraphyne
Von Kaiser
 
Xaraphyne's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Twisting Nether
I can't tell you why the stat values say what they do, but I can tell you why crit can do more for your damage than haste, even below the 1.66~ sec softcap. Although if Cobra's cast time is slightly longer than 1.66~ sec, Explosive gets pushed back, the DPS loss will only be the fraction comprised of the time pushed back divided by Explosive's cooldown, of Explosive's total contribution to your DPS. If your cast is pushed back by 0.1 sec for example, that's a 1.67~% reduction of your total Explosive damage, which can be less than what you'd gain from the crit rating between its natural effect and bonuses from procs, et cetera.

And even then, that reduction is only if Explosive is consistently pushed back by that amount. Anytime it isn't, because you're doing two Cobras and an instant like Black Arrow or Arcane for example, then Explosive isn't getting pushed back at all, and there's no DPS loss for not being at the softcap. So a 0.1 sec delay on your Explosive Shot won't even be a 1.67~% decrease of your Explosive damage, it'd be less. (There is, however, still the slight DPS loss from Autos not being quite as quick.)

Edit: What dres said and then some

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Old 12/31/10, 8:24 PM   #422
SHark5060
Glass Joe
 
SHark5060's Avatar
 
Troll Rogue
 
Anub'arak (EU)
uhm what about [Unheeded Warning], guess it's not THAT bad for a Hunter, is it ?
(would you be so kind and add it to your calc ?)

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Old 12/31/10, 10:47 PM   #423
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
The proc on that trinket doesn't work off ranged attacks (as far as I know) so it's not really very good for a hunter. If you want to use it you can simulate it on the site by just putting the agility in the custom stats section.

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Old 01/01/11, 5:21 AM   #424
Goldengiff
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Schniepel View Post
Edit: Also [Item not found!] doesn't work, although I'm not sure if it's a big difference anyway.
What do you mean it doesn't work. I just check on my hunter and it def reduces the cost by 10 focus.

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Old 01/01/11, 11:20 PM   #425
Ato
Von Kaiser
 
Ato's Avatar
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by bowbaq View Post
I don't know where to post this, sorry if it's misplaced.

I did some tests with [Gnomish X-Ray Scope]. I just auto-attack and spam CoS with a 2.9 gun, 3/3 pathing, HP & 704 haste rating, making auto at 2.43 and CoS at 1.67.

I had 68 procs so far.

Median between two procs was 58 sec, average was 66. Maximum time was 134. But (and there is the interesting point) minimum time between two procs is 41 sec.

So it seems that this scope isn't based on a 45 sec ICD
Originally Posted by bowbaq View Post
I spammed CoS for all my tests with a 1.67 sec cast time; and autoshotting at 2.43 speed (so it's a 1.01 mean shots per seconds).

The proc rate seems to be 4%, assuming a 40 sec ICD.

With my sample of 68 procs, an average of 66 seconds are needed between procs (40 sec ICD + 26 sec to actually get the proc). I can convert the mean time into mean shots, making an average of 26 shots to proc when off the ICD. So the proc % chance is 1/26 ~ 4%. (source of my maths :Geometric distribution - Wikipedia).

But need more testing to get more accurate values
Based on this, what does this mean for the scope? How much rap does it effectively give? That is, is it really equivalent to something like 100rap?

Also, if this scope isnt worth so much effective rap, wouldnt [R19 Threatfinder] be better? You could reforge any extra hit on gear to be better than whatever the effective rap of the proc scope is, and still remain hit capped.

Unfortunately I'm not capable of doing the math here. Can anyone take a shot?

It's all fun & games till someone gets a [Hydrocane] in the eye!

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Old 01/02/11, 7:24 AM   #426
DeiExMachina
Glass Joe
 
Troll Hunter
 
Jaedenar
Take a look at any world of logs boss kill logs, you will see the uptime for procs under buff gained.

The X-Ray Scope has a 20% uptime averaged across most reports, which averages out to 160ap.

It's far better than the other two scopes because
a) Attack power per item budget provides more dps than haste and hit.
b) Even if hit was worth more, you can reforge for hit but not reforge ap and this way you drop haste/mastery instead.

tl;dr. use x-ray scope, no exceptions.

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Old 01/02/11, 9:24 AM   #427
Nooska
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by DeiExMachina View Post
Take a look at any world of logs boss kill logs, you will see the uptime for procs under buff gained.

The X-Ray Scope has a 20% uptime averaged across most reports, which averages out to 160ap.

It's far better than the other two scopes because
a) Attack power per item budget provides more dps than haste and hit.
b) Even if hit was worth more, you can reforge for hit but not reforge ap and this way you drop haste/mastery instead.

tl;dr. use x-ray scope, no exceptions.
Cocky. Use the hit scope if you need the hit or can attain the hitcap better with the 88 hit rating than you can with reforging. Especially if you are gemming for hit, because then the X-ray scope is equal to ~70 agility (BM and SV). Thats an exchange of 88 hit for 70 agi if you take the hit scope over the gnomish (based on your average AP contribution), which in gemmin translates directly to 88 agi, so ~70 agi given up for 88 agi gain. Same with reforging, the AP value is "per budget" meaning 2 AP is calculated the same (per budget) as 1 crit, or hit, so its 80 budget points of AP for the x-ray scope, and 88 budget points for the hit scope.
If your average is correct (caveat) you should see an overall gain from exchanging it for the hit scope and get more budgetpoints to play with for the other secondary stats in reforging, and pure agi in gemming.

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Old 01/02/11, 12:57 PM   #428
Ysbadaddin
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Thorium Brotherhood
Scope

I'd have to throw in a vote for the gnomish scope, assuming it does have 20% uptime. I'm currently only geared for heroics, and have 6.05% hit, yet 2 AP is worth 1.1 hit for me. So 160 AP = 88 hit in my gear. While I can reforge mastery, haste, or even crit to hit, AP and agility can't be reforged into. It would seem logical that gems, enchants, scopes, etc. should always be agility or AP whenever possible, while the hit cap should be achieved through gear and reforging whenever possible. As always though, each person needs to evaluate the value of each stat based upon their own current gear.

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Old 01/03/11, 7:08 AM   #429
Schniepel
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Hunter
 
Vek'lor (EU)
Originally Posted by Goldengiff View Post
What do you mean it doesn't work. I just check on my hunter and it def reduces the cost by 10 focus.
If you are using Explosive Trap instead of Black Arrow, the trap is listed costing 20 focus in the shot breakdown whereas it should be 10.

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Old 01/03/11, 7:34 AM   #430
Eva
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Hunter
 
Vashj (EU)
Regarding Mastery: is the sim using unrounded percentages to calculate DPS? I am under the assumption that only a full percentage-point increase in mastery should result in a higher DPS-output.

I've loaded my profile into the sim and emptied the gem in my belt-buckle resulting in:
DPS
Combined: 14455.29 100.00%
Mastery Bonus: 18.15% Magic Damage Bonus

After adding a [Fractured Amberjewel] in my belt buckle and updating the sim, I get the following result:
DPS
Combined: 14475.10 100.00%
Mastery Bonus: 18.37% Magic Damage Bonus

However since the Mastery Bonus didn't go up a full percentage-point, I would expect the DPS to not increase at all.

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Old 01/03/11, 8:10 AM   #431
pichuca
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Uldum (EU)
At least in game, mastery adds damage for every rating point you have on your gear, despite the sheet showing only percentage increases, you can try by reforging small amounts of it and you will see the tooltips changing they´re numbers.

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Old 01/03/11, 2:48 PM   #432
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Schniepel View Post
If you are using Explosive Trap instead of Black Arrow, the trap is listed costing 20 focus in the shot breakdown whereas it should be 10.
It looks like the problem was that I still had the original 30 focus cost in for trap launcher from earlier beta. I had fixed it on the level 80 version but forgot to fix it on the 85 version. So the glyph was working, but the base focus cost was wrong for both traps. I've fixed it now so it should work. Let me know if you're still having issues.

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Old 01/03/11, 5:32 PM   #433
Whitefyst
Great Tiger
 
Orc Hunter
 
Draenor
I just want to make sure that everyone that is using Female Dwarf is aware of a pet calculation interaction that is working correctly in FD as modeled but which can adversely impact the analysis of different gear pieces.

It has to do with the interaction of Wild Hunt and Sic'Em, which is a random proc. If you do not have 0 or 100% WH uptime and your pet's attack speed changes in the comparison, then the comparison of two pieces of gear may be inaccurate if you are looking at the Combined DPS numbers. This is because if Sic'Em procs are eaten by more non-WH pet basics than WH pet basics due to the timing of the random Sic'Em procs in the simulator relative to when your pet is above 50 focus. This can result in your pet having less focus and having a lower WH uptime and doing less DPS, despite the fact that the change increased your pets attack speed, crit rate, and AP.

I have suggested that some option be added to try to pull the adverse impact of this random interaction out of the FD analysis if chosen.

One suggestion I had was to force FD to use Sic'Em procs on a WH affected attack if one occurs before the next Sic'Em proc even if that WH affected attack is not the first attack after the Sic'Em proc. Another would be to force 0 or 100% WH uptime. However, both of these suggestions have inherent problems as well.

If any one has any other suggestion for an option to "fix" this problem, please respond with the suggestion.

In the meantime, there are several ways to work around the impact of this random interaction to allow more relatively accurate comparison of gear on the hunter:
1) Untalent WH or Sic'Em during gear comparisons.
2) If the change being compared did not change your pet or pet talents, then compare the changes in the Hunter DPS instead of the Combined DPS.
3) Use the Pet Setting which disables the use of pet basic attacks.
4) Hand compare the stats between the two pieces of gear

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Old 01/04/11, 4:03 PM   #434
Goldengiff
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Tichondrius
I see under the buffs section that there is an option to enable Dark Intent for 3% haste. Does enabling this buff also enable the 9% periodic damage buff?

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Old 01/04/11, 4:15 PM   #435
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Goldengiff View Post
I see under the buffs section that there is an option to enable Dark Intent for 3% haste. Does enabling this buff also enable the 9% periodic damage buff?
No, I didn't add support for that because I wasn't really sure of a realistic way to model it. If someone has ideas on how to support it in a fairly reliable manner I can add that as well. Is it the sort of buff that will generally remain stacked the whole fight? Any ideas on which hunter abilities it applies to? I would guess explosive, BA and serpent sting (maybe the damage traps too) but you really never know with Blizzard sometimes so it'd help if someone's done testing on it.

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