I've updated the ICD to 55 sec on the site, but I'll wait to change the proc chance till more is known.

Just looted Vial of Shadows yesterday and saw that FD isn't modeling it's proc well. Trinket has 30 sec ICD and almost instant proc after that. Damage can crit and is affected by your AP. Here is sample log for Ultraxion (stand still fight) - Lightning Strike did 3.6% of my damage.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I was very disappointed to see that the proc of Vial of Shadows can be dodged by a boss :/

I don't have the log cause it bugged but on Ultraxion, I had :

4 normal shots ~ 20K
2 crit chot ~ 40K
2 dodges

-> 2,5% of my total dps.

So a capped expertise agi wearer is a better choice for this trinket :/

Edit : the log is working now : World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Indeed. Checked my full log and noticed dodge and parry on trash and some bosses.

Bombardment change reverted to any "multishot within 5s of a multishot crit" on european realms as of 02/12/11. Tooltips still states "next multishot only".

I've modified my Vial of Shadows support to reflect 1:1 RAP scaling. I'm not sure if this is completely accurate as it's possible it may be implemented slightly differently, but all the information I've found so far seems to indicate it works this way. This makes even the raid finder version of the trinket come out as worth a ton of damage, so I suspect the proc modeling will still need more work.

All proc based damage sources (or on use cds that generate damage) are lumped together in the damage report as Proc DPS, which is why it doesn't have breakdowns specific for crit and whatnot (I might change that someday but it's a lot of work to setup separate entries for each proc). Crit chance is being taken into account where applicable.

In the case of the bow, I have it currently modeled as based off the spell crit chance and damage multiplier, affected by SV mastery and the spell damage debuff. It's also currently modeled as based off spell hit but I've been told that part was fixed, so I need to modify it slightly to fix that this weekend. I think currently we understand the proc well enough that more logs are probably not needed, but if you think there's something incorrect with what I describe about the current modeling based on what you're seeing in the logs, let me know so I can fix it.

Vial of Shadows seems to be fixed - not a single dodge/parry whole last raiding week and this reset too. Maybe they made it expertise capped based on hunter hitcap, didnt test with less than 8% hit.

I made a few tweaks today including adding a new setting to allow you to disable the suppression of arcane shot for careful aim or aimed shot when the 4pc T13 is not on cooldown. I had a few requests for this, so hopefully it's useful. I'm not sure if it's setup perfectly for people's needs, so if anyone has any suggestions on a better implementation for it let me know. The setting is not spec specific as SV and BM hunters could also be using the careful aim suppression option for arcane shot.

First, i dont speak english very well, so i hope you can understand my question.

I start to use FD since i ding 85, now i have a lot of epic items, and i want to know wich items are the best for me.

I put all my info in the FD site and gave a DPS number, then i copy the pawn string to my pawn addon in game and then i compare an item against the hunterloot site with the custom link the FD gave me.

For example with the pawn string in the pawn addon in game, the addon says that the chest [] of Queen Azshara in Well of Eternity is a 7% upgrade.

Then i check the hunterloot site and my current chest [] with my current gems is best than the chest of WoE.

I check all the stats weights in all sites and the addon, and all are the same.

I dont know if something that i do is wrong, but i dont know if this is correct.

Hey Zehereh, I get no change to dps when I drop 1 point in termination but I gain 114 when I drop both points. Why?

Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

For the first case of dropping a single point in Term, the DPS stayed the same since the focus from the 2nd point in Term provides no benefit, especially with the T13 2p. Your shots taken are exactly the same in both case.

Remember that Term helps best when you are hasted and performing higher focus costing AIs. In this case, your only haste effects over the Term phase were trinket procs (which are not enough haste at your haste level to switch to AI) and a T13 4p proc. Hence, only 2 AIs were cast over the whole Term phase. The result is a little different if had RF or BL over Term with more AI casts.

In the second case, the reason that DPS went up after removing the last point in Term is easily seen with a little investigation. First, the shot totals changed, with 1 more AI and SS versus 2 less ASs, which is definitely a DPS gain. So the question is why did this difference occur. The reason is the default rules that FD uses, which saves focus for CS. It will not let you cast a focus costing shot unless you have enough focus to do both it and CS. In the original case, the point in Term resulted in higher focus at a point at about 248s where the original case had enough focus to cast back to back ASs per the FD rule but the the no Term case did not. It is the ripple down effect of this decision that caused the difference. It resulted in your T13 4p proc to occur about 2s later meaning that a little bit more of it overlapped with a The Hungerer proc and reduced an AI's cast time. But the real difference is that the second case had to perform some SSs sooner, resulting in a slightly sooner MMM AI proc. This along with the extra SS resulted in an extra MMM AI proc occurring right before the end that did not occur previously.

Caguama, your item links didn't work so I'm not sure which items you were referring to. I'm not sure why if you're using the same stat values in two different places you might get different rankings of items, but it's possible that Pawn and Hunterloot are calculating things differently based on those values. It's possible one or the other tool is taking into account hit cap changes differently?

Whitefyst thanks for clarifying things for Mascaron- I've been out of town so still catching up.

I added a few new things to the site today. First I fixed the cooldown on Kiroptyric Sigil which was out of date and set to 60 sec, it's now 90 (I assume that was some old PTR value or a guess).

I also added a proc list page so you can view the values I'm using for calculating procs and use items. Since I often don't have accurate data on how procs work when the items first come out (and usually don't find out the correct values until someone reports them), having this page should allow for folks to more easily correct me on proc rates, cooldowns, etc. as the items become available for testing. Note a few items like Kiril are implemented strangely (I recalculated it to work like a standard agil proc), and some are not in the list because they required specialized code, but most more standard item procs should be in there.

I also added custom ranged weapon support, which I've been meaning to do for quite awhile. This should allow for experiementation with different dps and speeds (you can still use custom stats to simulate any stats on the item).

This is not to say right or wrong but only to report the impact. The change to the Sigil modeling in FD is a huge difference. It reduces the average agility benefit by about -191 and results in a loss of 805 DPS for my character.

I really do not understand Blizzard itemization here since the Sigil is essentially worth on average 382 agi and 458 haste. This makes it worth less from an average point of view than Heroic The Hungerer with 433 agi and 433 haste. That is a 6 lower ilevel trinket with +52 agi and -25 haste on average. Of course, being able to stack the full agi amount of the Sigil during the CA phase is a nice boost not modeled by FD.

Made a few more updates to the site. The biggest one is changing the attack power scaling on Vial of Shadows to use melee AP instead of ranged AP. Although the tooltip makes it look like it scales with ranged AP, based on test data provided by WarBringerPT on the MMO Champion forums it looks pretty clear that it's actually scaling off melee AP. Modifying this caused the value of the heroic version of the trinket to decrease by 363 dps in my gear setup. I've posted about the bug on the Blizzard forums but I think it's likely it won't be changed.

I also added in support for Chardev profile import. Although I expect this won't be used a ton, it might be handy in cases in which you want to use Simulationcraft and my site both to test certain gear setups- now you can use the same source for the gear/talent list.

I also modified the termination bonus to receive the doubling from 2pc T13 based on Neruse's testing and finally remembered to change the default value for Dark Intent to reflect the changes to the ability that were made quite awhile ago. If you have Dark Intent enabled and you're using an old saved setting, you may want to make sure you've updated the value as my change only impacts the default.

Baesd on reports I've received, it looks like Vial of Shadows is fixed now so I switched it back to RAP scaling. Adding support for the new LnL will be a larger task, but I'll see if I can make time for it tonight.

Good Morning,

I have a huuuuuuge problem with MM atm.

So lets start from the beginning.

I joined a new guild when DS started, a really casual guild 7/8NM 10man, and talked with the other hunter already in the group about spec, rotation etc.
He is MM in around 390 gear. He told me he isnt using Arcane Shot or Aimed Shot AT ALL, only the instant proc of Aimed.
So i thought for myself, piece of cake, even 8 ILVL lower i will do more dmg, especially as Surv.

But no, he is topping the charts nearly every time. Then i thought ok, he is the only one geared above 385.

So i tried it in femaledwarf and yeah, the tool is showing me a 3000 DPS INCREASE with his play style over the normal focus dump AS rotation.

He is 90% of the time Focus capped and his 2p T13 is 100% worthless.

Any explanaition for this?


Edit: HArdcast AI is an additional 2,5k over his playstyle. So should this mean hard AI is 4,4k dps over AS dump?

That´s beacause you are not running FD with the propper settings. Share a setting link and you´ll see how what your friend is doing is wrong

So I made 3 Profiles:

1.
All settings default.
Common shot prio. AS in, AI only Instant.
Best raid buffs.

31k

2.
All settings default
best raid buffs.
took AS out, AI only instant.

34k

3.
All settings default.
best raid buff
As out, AI manual and instant.

36,7k


Search the publicprofiles for "Drego", there should be three. Named accordingly to the settings. I don't know how to post direct links.

Well that took 30 sec.

the default setting is not configured at all.
-Switch glyph of CS to glyph of AS
-Check "disable AS during CA"
-Select "stady shot in pairs if ISS is <4 sec"
-Select "manual cast and Instant" for AiS behaviour
-Set maximum speed for AiS hardcast to 1.8/1.9 and "except during careful aim"
-Disable sting and CS during CA phase.

now we get 35954.99 DPS. Didn´t even look at the gear/Reforges/pet etc, It can still be improved

To clarify and add to what pichuca stated about the Drego FD cases shown below (and as a reminder, the MM guide has a section devoted to proper MM FD settings):

For the default case:

If you are doing an AS focus dump rotation, having the AS glyph and the 12% bonus damage is critical. Replacing the CS glyph with it is a +500 DPS change.

It is important to disable AS during the CA phase since not only is it less DPS than AIs that are guaranteed to crit, it is less DPS than SS that are guaranteed to crit plus the additional MMM AI and Flaming Arrow procs. This change is over +1000 DPS.

Having the proper SS setting is important as well. If you look at the debug data for this case, there were many situations were the ISS buff was dropped for extended periods since 1 SS with the T13 2P was enough focus to be able to cast another AS. Doing a quick look through, I saw about 120s of the 300s with no ISS buff. That is 40% downtime on ISS and a huge loss of DPS. This results in +324 DPS. Note that your CS and SS only case obviously had a 100% ISS uptime and did not suffer from this case.

In your setup, it was actually better to perform SrS and CS during the CA phase.

I reduced the wait time for CS from 0.5s to 0.3s. With how much extra focus we have from the T13 2P, it can be beneficial to actually delay your CS cast a bit to squeeze in an extra AS to utilize that focus that would otherwise be wasted. This was about a 300 DPS gain.

I turned off waiting for KS. It is not worth waiting time to cast it. This did not result in any change since the run never waited to cast it off CD.

Even with an AS focus dump case, you still want to use AI during the CA phase when it is basically guaranteed to crit. Setting Aimed Shot behavior to Manual Cast during CA and instant is +971 DPS.

Also your cast casts BL right at the beginning where it overlaps with RF, which is generally a bad idea. The best place for it is during the KS phase. In this case since you are not using AI during dynamic haste effects outside the CA phase, it is actually a small -90 DPS loss to move BL away from the AI casts during the CA phase.

The next thing for this case is that if you are using AS primarily as the focus dump, then you do not need so much haste. You actually want mastery instead of haste due to all of the extra shots you are taking. I dumped about 500 haste for mastery and crit for +171 DPS.

This results in a case that does 34304 DPS. This is about 3300 DPS higher than you had attributed to it.

The thing is that I would never recommend anyone to perform this case though. The big adjustment that should be made is to cast AI when under sufficient dynamic haste effects (i.e, anytime its cast time is less than 1.8s as pichuca stated). Setting the AI Behavior to manual cast and instant and the cast time to 1.8s except during CA results in a balanced AS/AI MM approach. This added +971 DPS.

With casting a lot of AIs, you want some of that haste back we reforged away for the AS only (except during CA) case. Adding the haste back in is another couple hundred DPS. At this point it works better now to disable SrS and CS during the CA phase with the result being to 36163 DPS. This is about 2.1K better than your no focus dump case.

Dropping AS from this is only -150 DPS since we will have cast time limitations on AI and casting AS to use the focus when unhasted is better than just casting SSs. Allowing AI to be cast anytime you have enough focus, replacing the AS glyph with the CS glyph, and reforging into more haste results in about the 36.7K DPS you listed for the AI only case.

A couple additional items to note:
1) Once the T12 2P is lost, the AI instant only case will lose a lot more DPS relatively than the cases that use AS and/or AI to dump focus.
2) Although the AI only case is about 500-600 DPS higher than the AS/AI mixed case, I recommend the mixed case since it works better in actual game play with a lot of movement and interruption effects.

Hey,

thanks a lot for the great answers! Was wondering because of that.

But now I have no clue what to do with that hunter. He is already saying that his shot rotation is complicated... while only using instant AI SS and CS. If I understand you, the overall loss is -+ 2k? Should show him those numbers, maybe he will change his mind.

I will just show him this post, because there is everything he needs.

Just found an additional question.

In optimal MM Settings the theoretical DPS is higher compared to SV, where i can only reach around 34848.23.
I know reforging would change it by a fair bit, but i dont think it could out dps MM. I hope i havn't overlooked a lot of details again. Because the general performance of hunter speccs is SV>MM.