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Old 01/14/11, 5:54 PM   #481
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Ebonleaf, when I import you from armory I see the following for your hit entry:
Hit: 7.93% Chance to hit: 99.93%, 8 rating to cap (hit rating 953)

This is the exact same hit I see displayed on your armory page. So I'm not sure what you're doing differently but I can't reproduce the problem.

I notice also that you're using 2 items with random stats. I recently added support for importing random stat items from armory with the actual stats attached (as compared to previously when the items were imported as the blank versions and you had to enter the stats manually in custom stats). So if you were using custom stats to fill in the numbers and you did that after the import you'd be getting the stats twice. If you weren't using custom stats before it'd now be giving you the correct stats. So this probably explains the dps jump. You should make sure you're only applying those stats once (i.e. probably not putting them in custom stats anymore now that the items can be selected directly).

The custom stats issue may also explain your hit results if you're loading an old saved setting with custom stats and importing armory on top of it, since the ring with random stats you're wearing has hit on it.

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Old 01/15/11, 5:03 AM   #482
Ebonleaf
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Stormrage
I think that might have been it. I loaded the page without a default build and when I imported the numbers looked more normal, thanks

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Old 01/15/11, 5:18 AM   #483
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
I've added support for the latest PTR changes to the PvP and 4pc T11 set bonuses. Note that the text for the bonuses won't be updated but the math is based on the changed stats as per the latest patch notes.

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Old 01/15/11, 12:00 PM   #484
Karlino
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
I did a little inputting this morning after you added support for the new patch. I found that if I were to change 4 set 365 pvp to 4 set 359 t11, it would result in roughly 800 dps gained. Meanwhile, changing 4 set 365 pvp to 3 piece 359 t11 + 1 piece 359 random resulted in about 125 dps gain. There's a little problem with this: I'm not sure what the target is for haste after having the .2 seconds off cobra, so I blindly kept haste around 550 instead of 757 (my assumption is that haste becomes less beneficial for a long time?).

Might be premature, but it looks like I'm still sitting on my pvp 4 set until I get 3-4 pieces to equip at once.

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Old 01/15/11, 2:11 PM   #485
Sidis
Glass Joe
 
Sidis's Avatar
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Crushridge
Does the 4p t11 from the PTR reduce the base cast time of steady/cobra or is the 0.2 s deducted after haste effects?

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Old 01/15/11, 2:49 PM   #486
Karlino
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Sidis View Post
Does the 4p t11 from the PTR reduce the base cast time of steady/cobra or is the 0.2 s deducted after haste effects?
Yes. The avg focus shot cast time is 1.44 while the static hovers around 1.49 (this number is without previous 757 haste threshold, but with t11)

Last edited by Karlino : 01/15/11 at 4:04 PM. Reason: Clarity

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Old 01/17/11, 12:50 AM   #487
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
I noticed when studying some logs that the actual proc behavior of Owl's Focus seems to not match up with the proc rate on the talent. The talent lists it as 30% proc rate with 2 points invested. Looking at a variety of logs on WoL, I'm noticing consistently around 20% proc rate. I did some more checking and it looks like Owl's Focus can't proc from an attack which was made free by Owl's Focus (I'm not sure if Sic'Em impacts it as well)- or at least I couldn't find any evidence of it happening.

So I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended behavior, but I believe this is the reason for why the 30% proc rate is actually coming out as 20%. Figuring a 30% proc rate and 30% of those failing to proc comes out as 9%, which isn't a perfect formula to explain it, but I suspect the correct formula isn't too far off from that. I'm going to report the issue once I get a little more detail to include. If anyone has any ideas on a better formula to reflect the weird proc behavior, I'd like to adjust the website to reflect this soon, as it may account for a substantial loss in estimated cunning pet dps.

Edit: I've updated the site for now to treat the proc rate as 21% till I have a better idea how to handle it. This will result in significant simulated dps reduction to cunning pets.

Last edited by Rivkah : 01/17/11 at 1:18 AM.

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Old 01/17/11, 1:34 PM   #488
Dch48
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Draka
I have seen a lot of SV Hunters running with a Cunning pet, usually a Wind Serpent, and I have read posts by others saying that a cunning pet is better for them than a Ferocity one. I have played with the SV profile I have set up and my results are that the highest dps comes from having a cat as the pet with 2 points in Shark Attack and no points in Wild Hunt. This was true before the current change to Owl's Focus and is even more true now. The same pet and talent combination also shows as the best for my MM setup.

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Old 01/17/11, 3:20 PM   #489
Whitefyst
Great Tiger
 
Orc Hunter
 
Draenor
It does not appear that the new 4-set bonus works with the heroic gear. I was trying to do an analysis of the impacts of the 0.2s drop in SS base cast time using a heroic gear set, but the SS cast times didn't change regardless of the PTR setting. The cast times did change when using the non-heroic set.

Concerning pets, for MMs with sufficient crit, a Ferocity pet is the best due to all the Sic'Ems and BD resulting in roughly 90% WH uptime with 2/2 WH.

For SVs, even with the reduction in the modeling to Owl Focus, a Cunning pet is still the best by a large margin since SVs do not generate enough pet focus to support 2/2 WH on a Ferocity pet like they can on a Cunning pet. For Ferocity pets, the SV best pet talent setting is 1 WH and 1 SA with their pet focus generation. Using 2 SA is definitely a huge decrease over 1 WH.

When comparing the DPS of pet types, make sure to disable the pet buffs. It is true that solo that a cat generally is the best pet due to the agi buff and how important agi is to hunters. However, in a raid with any of the numerous sources of the agi buff, the cat is no different than any other Ferocity pet and worse than a Cunning per for SV.

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Old 01/17/11, 4:03 PM   #490
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Whitefyst View Post
It does not appear that the new 4-set bonus works with the heroic gear. I was trying to do an analysis of the impacts of the 0.2s drop in SS base cast time using a heroic gear set, but the SS cast times didn't change regardless of the PTR setting. The cast times did change when using the non-heroic set.
It looks like the problem was with the heroic gear not being properly flagged as part of the set for some reason (probably I imported from wowhead and forgot to check that it pulled the set name properly). It's fixed now.

With regards to the problem with crit sometimes causing loss of damage due to the wasted Sic'Em/Owl's Focus problem, I've been trying to brainstorm a solution. Disabling the code that wastes the proc when both are up seems like it'd create a more inaccurate result than leaving it in, so I don't want to go that route. Just looking at SV, Sic'Em normally will only have a chance of overlapping procs during LnL or if you're squeezing in arcanes. But the overlap will only happen if both procs occur between basic attacks (which is a 3 second window). So I'm not sure how to figure out a formula to represent that which can be used to smooth out the crit spikes (since the way I simulate the proc right now is with a proc chance counter which gets moved up for every proc opportunity and reduced when a proc happens).

It becomes a lot more complicated when Owl's Focus gets included in the mix, since there's now a 21% chance of the proc already being up before Sic'Em even comes into play. On the other hand, Owl's Focus at least always procs at a consistent time, rather than at random periods within the 3 second window.

Ideally I'd like to figure out a formula to predict the chances of one of the two procs happening when a proc isn't already active, and then just have one counter which gets shared. This would prevent crit from having such an erratic effect on Wild Hunt uptime. Anyone have a great idea on this score?

Also, going back to the earlier discussion with regards to Dark Intent uptime:
Originally Posted by Goldengiff View Post
(9 * 0.512) + (6 * 0.128) + (3 * .16) = 5.856 the average periodic damage buff we'd get from a Destro lock
Is it fair to say that most locks are destro and that this number should be a reasonable average of what you'd get from DI? I can add support for the DI periodic bonus to the buff, but I don't want to make it super complicated, so I just want to use a rough average percentage bonus in my support for it. Before I add support I just wanted to check if anyone has input on the number above or if people think it's a good enough average to go with.

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Old 01/18/11, 6:08 AM   #491
Goldengiff
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Tichondrius
Re: Dark Intent

The warlocks in my guild are mostly Destro (when they aren't Demo for AoE) but I don't know if that's true for all. Since DI dot buff is such a complicated thing you might be better off letting the user input the percent dot dmg buff they would like to use. Either way, the number I came to is *very* rough.

Re: 4pT11 PTR

It looks like you're currently modeling the 0.2sec reduction in the cast time before haste effects. Is this confirmed from PTR? I don't have 4p or I would check myself.

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Old 01/18/11, 3:39 PM   #492
Hirgux
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Blackhand (EU)
With the new p4t11 I wanted to check whether 4 CS 1 ES might be better than 3CS 1ES. How can I force the sim to cast CS 4 times? I tried with wait time but that does not work.

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Old 01/18/11, 5:32 PM   #493
Whitefyst
Great Tiger
 
Orc Hunter
 
Draenor
Originally Posted by Hirgux View Post
With the new p4t11 I wanted to check whether 4 CS 1 ES might be better than 3CS 1ES. How can I force the sim to cast CS 4 times? I tried with wait time but that does not work.
Theoretically and ideally, if you want a 4CS 1ES cycle without any ES delay, you need a 1.25s CS cast time. with the 0.2s base CS cast reduction, that requires 44% static haste. With taking into account the 10% raid buff and 3% from Pathing, that still requires 27.1% haste from gear, which is pretty costly.

Other options include:

- I think I better option to look at, especially for focus usage too, is instead of 3 CS and 1ES or 2 CS, AS, and 1ES as done now is 3CS, AS, 1ES. This still requires a 1.33s CS cast time, which requires 35.33% haste total. With the raid buff and Pathing, that is 19.45% haste from gear. This is still costly. My guess is that even with this route that with current BiS gear that the cost in crit and mastery to get that much haste would be a detriment. Furthermore, this rotation is focus negative and cannot be maintained, it would require a non-AS cycle periodically to regen. However, since the calculated focus deficit is only about 1.1 fps, the regen cycle would not have to be too often.

- To keep the 3 CS 1ES rotation, a 1.67 CS cast time is still necessary. This requires 7.78% haste with the cast time reduction. This is already accomplished with the raid buff without Pathing. Going this route would allow you yo get rid of haste on gear for more crit and mastery and to move the points in Pathing to utility talents; however, getting rid of all haste is difficult (and will hurt you for when the 4-set bonus goes away) and even with doing so, you are at a 1.64s cast with just the raid buff.

- Having a haste amount somewhere in the middle and delaying the ES cast. Depending on your haste amount and ES wait setting, you can get 4 CSs between an ES during non-dynamic haste times. I accomplished it in FD just by taking my current gear and adding 3 normal T11 pieces for the 4-set. That quick case had 7.34% haste from gear, which is about 21.62% haste total with Pathing and the raid buff. This resulted in a 1.48 CS cast time. Hence, you can squeeze 4 CS in 5.92s and FD will do that if you do not wait for ES long enough for ES (after the 3rd CS over 0.4s was left even with factoring in the 150ms latency on the previous ES cast) or if after the 3rd CS you do not have enough focus to cast ES yet, which happened in a few situations in the FD simulation usually after casting either AS or BA before ES. These all delayed the next ES by a large amount. Adding a little more haste will increase the wait time gap, resulting in more 4 CS cycles more often.

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Old 01/18/11, 5:43 PM   #494
Ebonleaf
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Stormrage
So I loaded to the website with no pre-loaded setup, and went to import my current armory setup. It imported everything successfully except my glyphs. I've exited and reloaded the page, cleared my cache, etc.

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Old 01/18/11, 5:51 PM   #495
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Ebonleaf View Post
So I loaded to the website with no pre-loaded setup, and went to import my current armory setup. It imported everything successfully except my glyphs. I've exited and reloaded the page, cleared my cache, etc.
It looks like this is happening with my glyphs as well. Most likely Blizzard changed the formatting of the page again (until they add XML support it's going to randomly break like this sometimes due to changes in formatting). I'll take a look at it tonight if I can find time.

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