25k is about right if the hunter does not have 5 orbs or more on him. I was able to tank him through an empowered with 5 orbs up. I was taking an average of 6500 a hit with 5 orbs up and his normal ones tickled for < 2k with 5 orbs up. However, keep in mind with 5 orbs up he will be taking 5k every 3 seconds from the orbs.

However, as a side note we just ended up having our druid off-tank and warrior tank the 2 melee for the kill.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Thanks for the response. I think the most the hunter ever had on them was 4 so it sounds like it's just an issue of not having enough orbs and then of course understanding the DoT-like damage they'll be taking from the orbs.

This may help you visualize the formula for the Dark Nuclei better. As stated above, you want 5 at a time during his empowered phase.

To clarify the three orb rule, this was originally stated by guilds on the PTR to encompass the point at which keleseth's orbs are *survivable*.

With three orbs you'll be hit for around 26k shadow bolts, this is barely survivable by most 25 man hunters. If you're less than three, you can't take a hit. Ideally, you want more, the breaking point being around 7, three is merely the bare minimum you MUST have. In theory, you should pick as many up as possible, since even if you have 5, two could run out and you could be "one shot" before you can get more.

I moved all these posts out of the Marksman thread. Let's keep the spec threads to things specific to each spec and discuss ICC strats and things here. However let's stick to useful information and not anecdotal "I did this too!" posts.

RE princes:
I've tanked this both on 25 & 10 man on my hunter (before the earlier spawn change) and also on 10 man on my prot warrior. No special gear used on my hunter at all, first time I did it on 10 man we only had two healers and was purely beacon healed. When Keleseth was the second to be empowered (first switch) I required a hand of sac, with 3 healers in 10 man/a second keeping an eye out on 25/just one and the early spawn change, there is no problem whatsoever being kept up by competent healers in normal PvE gear.

I would say tanking it on a prot warrior is a lot safer though, I took very little damage during empower and charge/intervene/intercept around the room was fine for mobility, also theres better cooldowns in case something goes wrong. This seems more a control fight than a dps one to me and on heroic having a proper tank (read war mainly) would prob be more advisable.

Blood queen:
Anyone know how the damage boosts work on this fight? I'm the first to get bitten in my guild and was wondering how much totts/t10 is worth when bitten, is a straight 15% boost on top or is it multiplicative? Assuming the later.

With princes our guild has a warlock tank the 25 man version. However, I tank it in 10 man. I do this wearing normal raid gear and using a dps flask. This gives me approximately 28k buffed hp (I get kings, fort, motw) which is more than enough to tank the bolts as long as you are good about picking up the dark orbs. If I was targettted by the empowered flame or had to run to pick up an orb across the room if I was getting low on orbs (4 or fewer) during empowered shadowbolts I would hit deterrance. Threat is a non issue if you use KS on cd. By setting Keleseth to your focus and using a macro for kill shot you can easily dps the other bosses when not grabbing orbs and maintain high threat.


With blood queen I observed that when I was bitten I had to reapply serpent to get the bite damage modifier. I then had to wait for another 2pc t10 proc and ask for tricks again to maximize my serpent sting. The damage from serpent was exactly double what it would be with the same buffs were present pre bite. For example, pre bite I get a set proc then ask for tricks I apply sting and it crits at 3k per tick, without those buffs it crits for roughly 2250. I am then bitten, it still crits for 3k per tick, I then reapply the sting and now it is critting for ~4500. On my next set proc I ask for tricks again and reapply serpent again and now it is critting at 6k per tick.

I am not sure if this answers the question at all really, but I am just trying to supply some anecdotal evidence fo what I have observed the behavior of serpent sting to be during the blood queen fight. I hope it helps.

I saw these comments in the marks thread and thought it wasn't worth posting there, this is a seperate thread however and I have tanked it as a hunter, an actual tank and have also healed a hunter tank on my priest so thought I'd post pros/cons I saw. Seems the poster has been banned anyhow so no real need for me to reply.

Regarding my Queen question I realise serpent sting needs to be reapplied, was just wondering how the damage buff interacted with other damage buffs.

Edit: Thank you for the reply arrowd.

I volunteered to be our Tank for Keleseth last night after our lok seemed to be having issues moving to get orbs. My issue is a bit different in that I cant keep them from leaving me lol.

The only issue I really have with tanking him is keeping threat on orbs. For some reason (I am thinking melee was using some form of AOE) 3 orbs ripped right off of me and start going to other people. I then ate a shadow lance to the face and that was that. We did get him under 250K health that attempt though. So close but no cigar.

I generally open up with a Dist Shot on Keleseth, then kill shot spam the rest of the time in between gathering orbs. Ill get the orbs with a Dist Shot then a SrS to keep a little threat rolling. I am typically fine untill melee comes over then the orbs start going away from me or die off. Is there anything you guys can think of that I can do to help keep these orbs on me?

My health is fine, I sit dead on 35K with PvP gear and a rented tank trink . Keeping orbs on me is the only issue I seem to be having. Even with MD's they are getting ripped off me, so something has to be going on... I do know that they decay as well, so thats not a suprise on my end.

Does anyone have any tips for Bite rotation on blood queen. My guild has shadow priests get bitten first, so both tanks and the first Spriest get tricks + Misdirect in the beginning to make sure the Spriest is 3rd on threat and the tanks are top 2. The other Spriest is getting bitten second. The next bites go to me and the highest melee dps (rogue).

So I was wondering if anyone else has a better bite rotation, or is this the best opener?

If nobody else is hitting orbs, they shouldn't be leaving you since they appear to target the last person who attacked it. Personally, I've tanked as a shadow priest and fire mage using a rank 1 instant dot to pick up orbs with no problems. The orbs do die somewhat fast, so besides the initial pull you won't have much time to focus on building threat since there's always an orb to grab.

Bite order shouldn't really be class-based, with the exception perhaps of the shadow priests (their single target is fairly high with 4t10 and vampiric embrace should help raid healing significantly with essence). What your guild is doing seems fine. Just hit your highest damage dealers with it first, if possible try to get a melee and ranged as the first two, then let melee bite each other and ranged do the same (should be a slight dps increase due to less moving needed).