Regarding Sindragosa, I couldn't LoS mystic buffet using a block I was DPSing either, but I put that down to the fact that we were positioned on the stairs, meaning that to shoot the block, I had to be higher up the stairs than it, leading to my being in LoS over the top of the block. Does the block not break LoS from a distance even on flat ground?

As for MM vs SV for the fight, the biggest difference seems to be mana efficiency, since you can't count on JoW being present on blocks. Mana was fine in P1/P2 since you can viper at the start of every air phase, but in P3 the one attempt (and kill) I went MM for I was OOM at the end. This was in a 10 man without replenishment though, in 25s as MM I went into P3 with full mana and seemed to be OK about halfway through (no kill though). In 25s with a standard set of buffs, I think either spec is fine, although the fight itself isn't really a DPS race. Both specs for me had Chilled to the Bone falling off on it's own before exceeding 4 stacks most of the time, without my having to pause attacks, and I have slightly more haste than I should. I'm considering disabling my auto Melee-Ranged swap option though, to prevent getting an extra stack on every icy grip from a melee attack getting off.

I see. Thanks for all of the tips.

So, for the Valithria fight, do you guys also reserve the portal room for healers only? How big is the DPS impact on hunters if they enter the portal room together with the healers? Even caster DPS (which logically should get an even higher benefit than hunters when entering the portal room) reported that they didn't get that much benefit due to reduced DPS time available outside of portal.

Also for Sindragosa's fight, the "movement" I mentioned was referring to both the pull-in time and also the time when you have to LoS Mystic Buffet debuff. Depending on the icetomb positioning in p3, I felt that MM was taking a huge hit on steady shot time due to moving in and out of LoS. Is it the case for you guys too?

We also noticed an annoying bug which caused pets to despawn during air phase. It can be countered easily though, by pulling the pet right at the start of the air phase.

As SV, I never, ever had to stop dps on Sindragosa. Most of the time the stacks would fall off at 3.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

There is no dps benefit for hunters to go into the portal. Any dps gained from the buff is counteracted by reduced dps time outside.

I have not done it on 25 yet since we do 25s on Fri and Sat, but in 10-man we sent in two healers and 1 DPS every time. We had 3 healers, with them rotating on who goes in in order to keep their stacks up. We had 2 high DPSers taking turns going into the portals to keep their stacks up. Sure, they lose some DPS time, but we still had 2 tanks and at least 4 DPSers on the adds at all time. Later in the fight, when the adds are coming faster and faster, it helps to have the increased damage stacks on a couple DPSers. The key is to keep the stacks building and alternating so the persons with stacks still have a good amount of DPS uptime to use the stacks before going back in before the stack falls off and to increase it larger.

Sure MM takes a huge hit in DPS on Sindragosa like other movement fights, but so do other classes. The key is to have a strat which minimizes the movement of everyone in the raid. In phase 3, we have the marked person place the ice block in between the stacked range and melee and off a bit to one side towards the tank side. Then whenever someone needs to remove the debuff, they quickly go hug the block. Note that we have not killed her yet since ran out of time that night (continuing Sun). The reason we were failing is because our tank wasn't removing the debuff periodically and our healers couldn't heal through it.

The block doesn't break LoS at all on flat ground. If you spend all of the air phase in viper DPSing the blocks, you'll end up at full mana and from my experience in both our 10 and 25 man kills we had to stop damage as blocks were dying too fast, so 60% damage isn't that big of a deal unless the rest of your dps is slow. In phase 3 you can do the same when clearing your mystic buffet (I'd clear every time a new block spawned) by DPSing the block in viper until your debuff cleared.

I am not sure whether the situation I'm experiencing is similar to Alienangel's, but I can't seem to LOS Mystic Buffet pulses during P3 Sindragosa, unless I'm standing on melee range (deadzone) of the ice tombs. Does anyone experience a similar thing? Is there any workaround over this?

Will noggenfogger help? Tried using it on our kill but DBW procs keep removing it unfortunatley.

For Sindragosa, I have noticed an amazing pattern that my guild is incorporating into a solid strat. I go to every iceblock @ 4 stacks, drop explosive trap and do a fast mongoose bite / raptor strike, and the stacks fall off. I then strafe slightly to get right back on the boss. Disengage to the next iceblock @ 4 stacks and repeat. This lead to me LoSing the Icy Grips due to some spectacular timing that I can only say is mechanical because of the way I am approaching the fight. I hit world #20 dps doing this (all classes) and now the guild will be swapping melee to only attack iceblocks in phase 3, and having range do what I do. This also happens to reach the achievement if executed perfectly. In the end though we zerged him for the final 8+ stacks.

Here is the parse, note half the raid died from melee getting too many stacks of the Mystic Buffet and melee debuff:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Yes, it emanates from the same spot where you see all spells land. So maybe not quite her mouth, but the neck area.

I didn't think Icy Grip could be LoS'd. Unfortunately I've only done this on my DK and didn't get a chance to test out LoS'ing Icy Grip. The closest example I could find in the log was this:

[23:34:20.445] Ashenshugar afflicted by Mystic Buffet (2) from Sindragosa
[23:34:25.157] Ashenshugar afflicted by Mystic Buffet (3) from Sindragosa
[23:34:30.387] Ashenshugar afflicted by Mystic Buffet (4) from Sindragosa
[23:34:36.311] Sindragosa casts Icy Grip
[23:34:36.311] Sindragosa Icy Grip Britneysears Immune
[23:34:36.311] Sindragosa Icy Grip Seraphe Immune
[23:34:38.510] Ashenshugar's Mystic Buffet fades


Unfortunately this doesn't really prove anything since Mystic buffet ticks next at 23:34:40 and the one buffet you avoided was prior to Grip. All other times she cast grip you either had just cleared the Buffet or you got another stack(which would imply grip was not los'd). I'd really like to know this for sure either way to include in the list. Are you completely positive you LoS'd Grip or is it possible you just used Disengage right as it hit? Or if anyone else has evidence of this thatd be great too.

I didn't LoS the grip on the kill shot because I was told to zerg her harder and let more stacks tick up, as opposed to my 4 stack strat. I'm 100% positive I LoSed it on other attempts, I'll go right now and find the log and edit this post later.

Now that Mystic Buffet is hotfixed to tick every 6 seconds instead of 5, with proper timing we will spend a sliver less time behind the ice tomb to lose the Mystic Buffet stacks. But I guess, there isn't anything much we can do when LoSing besides what was mentioned by Beachwanderer (Explosive Trap + Melee).

I went from having extreme mana problems to being close to 100% mana most of the time once I started putting a viper sting on some archmages. Unfortunately I don't have an exact number because WoL doesn't seem to register viper sting (it shows power gains from Chimera-Viper, but none from viper sting?). Of course it depends on how long those archmages stay up, but they are generally regarded as a low priority.

About Sindragosa fight.
Like few people have already mentioned there's few tricks one should use in order to avoid mana problems.
Simply during every air phase switch to viper and use it trough out entire phase,meaning you'll end up dpsing the tombs while having Aspect of the Viper on.Usually we have to stop dps on them until all 4 bombs are being cast,so DPS isn't really an issue,if you are being targeted by beacon make sure to switch to Viper before you get frozen.
During the last phase in order to loss Mystical Buffet you need to hug tomb basically and stacks will fall off.
Yes,it makes us kinda useless on DPSing them but you can always use explosive trap,Raptor Strike,volley etc.
Overall you should enter P3 with more then enough mana so you don't have to switch to Viper,if you do,make sure to do that when hiding behind the tomb.

New, occasionally useful tidbit:

LK - DE - Y: Can be used to return to safety after a Val'kyr throws you off the platform.

Not sure if it still works if the Val'kyr is just left alone and takes you all the way out before dropping you, but if the Val'kyr is forced to drop you by killing it after you're over the edge, you can still disengage back.

I have tried this in 25. This does not work.

If you successfully disengage early, you will drop straight down. Remember Sindragosa's hitbox is huge and you can stand much farther back than you might think.

Our raid has some players that have difficulty with "lag" on the pull in. To counteract that, it's helpful to stand at max range to Sindragosa and Disengage as soon as the pull animation begins. You'll likely drop about 15 yards out from her model and can switch on Aspect of the Pack (since none of the DoT damage effects cause the daze to trigger) when jump shot/strafing instants like Arcane Shot.

Doing so we went from losing about 1 player every other or every third Blistering Cold to never having anyone get hit.

It does not work if the val'kyr is left alone, at least I never managed and that has been with disengage and parachute enchant macroed together.

Just curious if anyone has any tips/tricks for completing the frostmourne room in Lk encounter?

Thinking of abilites to interupt/stun/dispel the channelled attack on the friendly npc and im struggling to find many . . . some hunters will have warstomp/arcane torrent, a BM would have intimidate, MM a silencing shot, does survival have any? Tranq shot wouldnt work as the debuff is dispelled of the friendly npc.

Ive been down there once myself and was dpsing the add down, used silencing shot once and then I got ganked by a raging spirit as the raid had wiped in the normal realm, but tbh im not sure I would of killed the add before menethil died . . . anyone else been down there got some hints? Did you use an interupt I didnt think of? is simple dps enpugh to kill the add before he kills our npc?

Thanks for help.

Haven't been to this point myself yet, but would a freezing trap work? I would assume it doesn't, since it's a CC and not just an interupt, but perhaps worth a try.

It seems like the Val'lkyr turns you around when dropping you, when I just spammed Disengage prior to being dropped by a non killed Val'kyr it sent me away from the platform. I did manage to spin and Disengage a couple times I was dropped, but I was always too low to get back on the platform. For now I don't think its possible to disengage back on if you get dropped without the Valk dying.