Regarding Tranquilizing Shot on Shambling Horrors, does anyone know exactly how the "fails to dispell" vs. "dispells" mechanic works?
WoL doesn't show too much detail about using Tranquilizing Shot aside from going to the log browser and using it as a spell filter. Doing so for a night of attempts in 10/25:
I, being Hunter A in this example, had a 3.39% fail rate on dispells, and Hunter B had a 2.56% fail rate, averaging out to a 3.18% fail rate for the both of us (although in this relatively small sample size).
Hunter A stats:
(5.34%) 175.00 Hit Rating from gear
(3.00%) 98.37 Hit Rating from 3/3 Focused Aim
(8.34%) 273.34 effective Hit Rating total
Hunter B stats:
(7.41%) 243.00 Hit Rating from gear
(1.00%) 32.79 Hit Rating from 1/3 Focused Aim
(8.41%) 275.79 effective Hit Rating total
I'll update this more when we have more logs uploaded, but I'm curious as to the effect of possibly Focused Aim effecting Tranquilizing Shot or if the "fails to dispell" mechanic can be reduced via Spell Penetration, but it doesn't seem likely from what I understand.
Originally Posted by Wowwiki
Dispels can be resisted. In fact, there are two different types of resist-like effects:
* Resists (caused by spell hit and resistances)
* Fails (caused by what is commonly referred to as "dispel resistance")
Normal resists do only exist for offensive dispels and follow the same rule as any other spell. When a dispel is normally resisted, it does not remove any buffs.
Fails are treated differently. They are calculated per buff and can also occur when dispelling friendly targets. There is an innate chance that this happens (however, this might be a bug). In addition, dispel resistance can be used to increase the chance, such as from Silent Resolve. Due to fails being calculated separately for each buff, a dispel which would remove two buffs could eliminate one buff while retaining the other. On spell hit procs are not affected by fails. As such, a Dispel Magic (rank 2) can trigger a proc even though it fails at removing both buffs.
There is a lot more detail in the raw combat log lines, worldoflogs greatly simplifies it for the web-site. If you could post that, there are hexadecimal codes that give much more detail about the conditions that cause the ability to fail. If you have access to the raw log, please PM me the text. You can use a simple tool like grep in linux, or a windows equivalent, filtering the output of the log against "Tranquilizing Shot".
I did not see this mentioned yet. One thing that we do in my raid for Dreamwalker is I bring out one of my tenacity pets and have it specced with Blood of the Rhino, which increases healing done to the pet by 40%. A paladin beacons Dreamwalker and spam heals the pet. I place my pet on stay next to Dreamwalker so that she also takes splash healing from Glyph of Holy Light.
This is of course a personal DPS loss, however as we all know DPS is not what this fight is really about. Most paladins have been spamming a warlock with demon armor up, which provides 20% increase in healing, however a pet with BotR yields 20% more.
I did not see this mentioned yet. One thing that we do in my raid for Dreamwalker is I bring out one of my tenacity pets and have it specced with Blood of the Rhino, which increases healing done to the pet by 40%. A paladin beacons Dreamwalker and spam heals the pet. I place my pet on stay next to Dreamwalker so that she also takes splash healing from Glyph of Holy Light.
This is of course a personal DPS loss, however as we all know DPS is not what this fight is really about. Most paladins have been spamming a warlock with demon armor up, which provides 20% increase in healing, however a pet with BotR yields 20% more.
Beacon ignores percentage healing modifiers, so this doesn't work.
Beacon ignores percentage healing modifiers, so this doesn't work.
You know ive gotten that same response everytime Ive suggested the same thing. But if you look closely at what he said, its glyph of holy light that hes talking about, not beacon. Glyph of Holy Light double dips with the healing buff to the point where it can heal for more then the original holy light. And it DOES transfer with precenting healing modifiers. So you can get some really pretty Glyph of Holy Light numbers on dreamwalker.
Also, for Lich King, I was able to succesfully disengage+parachute cloak my way back to the platform after a val'kyr dropped me (as in the val'kyr didnt die). I landed on the very tip so it requires very exact timing to do, not suggested to rely on.
Anyone else notice problems with dropping aggro on Blood Beasts in Deathbring Hard mode? I had at least 2 times where I feigned and regained all my aggro after popping back up. It was exactly like the problem commonly seen on Twin Valks. I'll make a note of it in my full list if anyone can confirm the same thing happening.
This was asked earlier in the thread but no answer was given and more people have probably seen the fight by now but... What do other people do when being pulled into Frostmourne? I've been sucked in twice, first time I just burned the Spirit Warden and won, the 2nd time I some how failed. What do other people do? MM has the benefit of Silencing Shot but SV has no interrupts that I can see. Does anyone know if Freezing Arrow will interrupt the cast?
This was asked earlier in the thread but no answer was given and more people have probably seen the fight by now but... What do other people do when being pulled into Frostmourne? I've been sucked in twice, first time I just burned the Spirit Warden and won, the 2nd time I some how failed. What do other people do? MM has the benefit of Silencing Shot but SV has no interrupts that I can see. Does anyone know if Freezing Arrow will interrupt the cast?
I was wondering this too. Conc shot, wyvern sting, or the freezing arrow were things I was going to try if ever sent down. Or if maybe sv hunters would have to spec into scatter shot for that fight. I've just haven't been sent down to try any of them out yet. I'd just would spec MM, but I'm usually one of the mana regen so its preferred I stay SV.
Anyone else notice problems with dropping aggro on Blood Beasts in Deathbring Hard mode? I had at least 2 times where I feigned and regained all my aggro after popping back up. It was exactly like the problem commonly seen on Twin Valks. I'll make a note of it in my full list if anyone can confirm the same thing happening.
I've never had that issue. To make sure we get the obvious answered, are you sure it's not resisting? This doesn't help with the direct issue but when we were learning DBS in my old guild on 10m, the hunters would hold aggro and kite the beasts around the outside of the room. Should you not be able to dump aggro, I'd suggest being prepared to kite the beast a bit, which you should be ready to do if something happens, anyway.
Anyone able to confirm below? Scatter Shot, Intimidation and Silencing Shot seem straightforward enough Interrupts. I have been told that Freezing Arrow works, but cannot personally confirm. Wyvern may not work if it is immune to "CC".
FT - LK - N - Freezing Arrow / Freezing Trap Interrupts Spirit Warden's 'Soul Rip' in Frostmourne chamber
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WS - LK - N - Wyvern Sting Interrupts Spirit Warden's 'Soul Rip' in Frostmourne chamber
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TS - LK - N - Tranquilizing Shot Interrupts Spirit Warden's 'Soul Rip' in Frostmourne chamber
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Anyone else notice problems with dropping aggro on Blood Beasts in Deathbring Hard mode? I had at least 2 times where I feigned and regained all my aggro after popping back up. It was exactly like the problem commonly seen on Twin Valks. I'll make a note of it in my full list if anyone can confirm the same thing happening.
On a few of our Heroic Saurfang 25 attempts I can confirm having the same thing happen. I stand almost in melee range on the front step corner to drop traps and don't move for the entire fight. We have myself and a shadow priest assigned to one of the 5 Blood Beast and I let him pick up aggro on it first so that it's pulled out of melee range and away from Saurfang, then I start attacking it, when it gets close to me again I would feign and it would head back out toward the shadow priest. I would stay feigned for at least 1 full GCD and the Blood Beast would still occasionally (happened about 25% of the time) come back right at me as soon as I stood up.
This was asked earlier in the thread but no answer was given and more people have probably seen the fight by now but... What do other people do when being pulled into Frostmourne? I've been sucked in twice, first time I just burned the Spirit Warden and won, the 2nd time I some how failed. What do other people do? MM has the benefit of Silencing Shot but SV has no interrupts that I can see. Does anyone know if Freezing Arrow will interrupt the cast?
About the mechanic and what to do when pulled into Frostmourne.
I haven't got the chance to be pulled yet but if the problem at this point is this ability:
- Soul Rip — Deals increasing Shadow damage per second for 8 seconds. Interruptable. Magic dispellable.
Would not a Tranquilizing Shot do the job?
As I said i haven't got inside yet to make sure of my statement. Can someone confirm this to me? Or just by finishing the cast of this ability means a fail?
I've never had that issue. To make sure we get the obvious answered, are you sure it's not resisting? This doesn't help with the direct issue but when we were learning DBS in my old guild on 10m, the hunters would hold aggro and kite the beasts around the outside of the room. Should you not be able to dump aggro, I'd suggest being prepared to kite the beast a bit, which you should be ready to do if something happens, anyway.
I've also had this issue where FD does not wipe agro, sometimes it does sometimes it does not.
As for kiting, well you are going to have a hard time kiting anything since they snare you.
I've also had this issue where FD does not wipe agro, sometimes it does sometimes it does not.
As for kiting, well you are going to have a hard time kiting anything since they snare you.
You have Frost Trap, Concussive Shot, Wing Clip, Disengage, Deterrence, Aspect of the Cheetah, and Master's Call. You should have no trouble kiting these. Also, Blood Beast do not snare you.
When using FD, just make sure you stay down until you drop off of omen (1-2 seconds max). If it is a resist, you have all the tools listed above to get to safety, you also have 9 or 24 other members of your raid there to help.
I'm almost positive he's referring to heroic mode, and in this mode, they do snare you. From my experience, you have two options: Deterrence or bring it up after the wipe and have more ranged switch to the blood beast you're assigned to. Ideally for this fight no one moves. There should be more than enough ranged dps to kill the blood beasts before they can hit their target. If you get unlucky with crits and one is close, just deterrence, and it should be dead long before deterrence drops. You can even cancel it to reduce the amount of time wasted due to deterrence.
Different topic, but has anyone had issues with Chilled to the Bone on Sindragosa? There seems to be a wide variance with how it stacks for hunters. There have been pulls where I've gotten up to 6-7 stacks and had to stop attacking and other pulls where I've barely gotten one stack. I'm pretty sure there's no way to reduce the RNG, but knowing the mechanic behind it would be useful.
Technically, it's Deathbringer Saurfang who snares you. He will use Scent of Blood on heroic mode a few seconds after the Blood Beasts spawn. At that point, you should be at max range and damage the Blood Beast farthest away from you (Distracting Shot as needed).
About the mechanic and what to do when pulled into Frostmourne.
I haven't got the chance to be pulled yet but if the problem at this point is this ability:
- Soul Rip — Deals increasing Shadow damage per second for 8 seconds. Interruptable. Magic dispellable.
Would not a Tranquilizing Shot do the job?
As I said i haven't got inside yet to make sure of my statement. Can someone confirm this to me? Or just by finishing the cast of this ability means a fail?
Believe the dispel goes on the friendly guy and you can't tranq a friendly. You can see on World of Logs that its a debuff on the Wardens target and not a buff on the warden.
Different topic, but has anyone had issues with Chilled to the Bone on Sindragosa? There seems to be a wide variance with how it stacks for hunters. There have been pulls where I've gotten up to 6-7 stacks and had to stop attacking and other pulls where I've barely gotten one stack. I'm pretty sure there's no way to reduce the RNG, but knowing the mechanic behind it would be useful.
I'm fairly sure the mechanic is just that it's a fixed chance to proc (and refresh + deepen the stack) on autoattacks. Generally we autoattack slowly enough it it falls off before getting refreshed past a 2nd or 3rd stack, but every now and then you get unlucky and get 6-7 refreshes in a row. Since I'm 99% certain it doesn't proc on specials, if I see it high I just start strafing back and forth while firing instants.
My average steady shot damage is ~7400 (including piercing shots & some swapping on adds) and the overall damage from SpS is ~150k.
I had the first 2p proc about 30s into the fight, thus you can say that the overall bonus was like 15k of total damage, but I lost a steady shot with one gcd.
That makes the overall boost not even 8k damage on a stand & shoot simple fight and that's nothing, much worse than f.e. laying a trap pre-pull.
Please prove me wrong guys, I thought we had a nice trick for once. If it really is just pathetic like this, then it won't make sense to refresh serpent sting on any of the fights besides marrowgar, saurfang, rotface, festergut and obviously BQ after you get bitten...
Unless I am mistaken, you have two benefits from refreshing the serpent sting while under a % buff :
*the serpentsting itself will hit harder
*the "chimera - serpentsing" shot (40%dmg of current SrS) will hit harder
My average steady shot damage is ~7400 (including piercing shots & some swapping on adds) and the overall damage from SpS is ~150k.
I had the first 2p proc about 30s into the fight, thus you can say that the overall bonus was like 15k of total damage, but I lost a steady shot with one gcd.
That makes the overall boost not even 8k damage on a stand & shoot simple fight and that's nothing, much worse than f.e. laying a trap pre-pull.
Please prove me wrong guys, I thought we had a nice trick for once. If it really is just pathetic like this, then it won't make sense to refresh serpent sting on any of the fights besides marrowgar, saurfang, rotface, festergut and obviously BQ after you get bitten...
You leave out the fact that every Chimera-Serpent afterwards is also boosted by 10%, which in your case would be another 12k damage lost if you wouldn't have refreshed it. So it's 15k + 12k - 7.4k = 19.6k damage gained. Thats an overall damage gain of roughly 0.8%, which is pretty decent for an "additional" damage bonus due to clever play and use of game mechanics.
It should be noted that Chimera-Serpent does not appear to inherit rolling modifiers to SrS. Also, that you will need 3 minutes of combat following a manual refresh of SrS gaining 2T10 (and no other percentage modifier) is within the margin of error the current model predicts. Mathematical determination of the amount of time needed to make SrS refreshes viable is still pretty new territory, with formulas existing only for a week or so. We've got what appears to be a working model over in the Marksman thread (with generation starting page 107, current workup page 108), but it hasn't had much peer review in its current form.
On fights with split targeting, as long as I can afford the dps redirection, I often focus target Chimera to keep SrS rolling after enhancement on fights where it might otherwise drop. I consider an SrS refresh to be viable for most of ICC: Marrowgar, Deathwhisper, Saurfang, Festergut, Rotface, Putricide (phase 2, and only with an early proc), Princes (I roll SrS on Keleseth, because I tank him in my guild) and BQL. Manually upgrading SrS is pretty much a terrible idea on Gunship, Valrithia and Sindragosa. The Lich King himself can go either way, I think, depending when you get the procs and how quickly you burn through the phases. Obviously, on any fight, the RNG is sometimes uncooperative and gives you a proc too late to be useful.
FT - LK - Y - Freezing Arrow / Freezing Trap does NOT interrupt Spirit Warden's 'Soul Rip' in Frostmourne chamber
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Yeh that causes problems indeed, i went ahead and tamed a wind serpent (with a 20 yard ranged attack) and call it in for that fight.
Not becuase my pet ever missed the bomb, but because i have some stresy people in the raid that start shouting when they see a ball close to the ground. Completely ignoring the fact that there is a pet next to it....
Hope this helps
02/19/10, 6:58 PM
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