Update 4.01: This thread will soon be superseded by a new Arcane thread - intended to fully discuss Arcane as it is ingame, and offer information on spec/mastery/rotations. Much of this thread is discussion on problems with Arcane, from design and thematic viewpoints, while the new thread will focus on Arcane ingame and be your resource should that be your chosen spec. Logix will be making this new thread shortly.
Preface and Resource Links
This thread is an opportunity for a consolidated discussion to explore all aspects of Arcane in Cataclysm: Talents, Mastery, design direction, playstyle and concerns. You'll quickly notice that the tone and sentiment of Cataclysm Arcane discussion, is very different to that of Cataclysm Fire or Frost. Arcane currently has many issues, and many people are quite frustrated or disappointed by the spec. With that in mind, this is still not a place to mindlessly whine or play armchair designer, but to constructively discuss Cataclysm Arcane in detail. Some resources pertinent to Arcane Mages:
- Cataclysm Talent Calculator: Mage
- World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Cataclysm Class Preview: Mage
- World of Warcraft: Cataclysm Beta - (English) Forums -> [Mage] Arcane suggestions
- World of Warcraft: Cataclysm Beta - (English) Forums -> Mage
- World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Arcane Mages in Cataclysm
Key Blizzard Quotes
Because much of recent Arcane discussion and concern stems from several key Blizzard quotes, these are pasted in full below.
Most Recent Beta Build Changes (12942)
- Arcane Blast new tooltips reads, "Blasts the target with energy, dealing X to Y Arcane damage. Each time you cast Arcane Blast, the damage of Arcane Blast is increased by 20% and mana cost is increased by 175%. Effect stacks up to 4 times and lasts 6 sec or until any Arcane damage spell except Arcane Blast is cast.".
- Arcane Missiles and Arcane Barrage no longer receive the damage bonus from Arcane Blast stacks. Only Arcane Blast itself benefits from the damage bonus.
- Improved Arcane Explosion reduces the GCD of Arcane Explosion by 0.5 seconds and reduces threat generated by 80%
- Arcane Specialization increases the damage of your Arcane spells by 25%.
- Mana Adept increases all spell damage done by up to 12%, based on the amount of mana the Mage has unspent. Each point of Mastery increases damage done by up to an additional 1.5%.
- Arcane Missiles is now a % based proc, learnt at level 3, which has a 40% chance to activate after casting any mage spell. It longer gets a damage bonus from Arcane Blast stacks.
- Arcane Barrage has a 5 second cooldown. It no longer gets a damage bonus from Arcane Blast stacks.
- Nether Vortex interacts with Slow by passively applying the debuff to unafflicted targets
- Improved Mana Gem allows a Mana Gem to act as a DPS cooldown
- Mage Armor allows the Mage to regenerate 3% of maximum mana per 5 seconds
- Molten Armor no longer scales with spirit. Selfish Crit bonus reduced to 3%.
- Torment the Weak applies only to Arcane spells, has been reduced to 6% damage
- Icy Veins is no longer available for Arcane Mages to pickup
- Arcane Barrage: In one beta build, Abarr gave a 100% chance to proc Arcane Missiles and not consume Arcane Blast stacks in the process. To clear up confusion: This implementation was completely scrapped during the Beta. Arcane Barrage functions the same way it does on live, except it has a 5 second cooldown and its damage is no longer modified by Arcane Blast stacks.
Arcane in Cataclysm
Concerns: Concise Bullet Point Summary
The following points summarize the majority of Arcane Cataclysm concerns in a concise and easy to understand manner. These points are quoted from a post originally authored by Zeldyrr here.
What's wrong with Cataclysm Arcane: Discussion
The short version: Arcane is boring.
The longer version: The 'fun factor' has gone missing from Arcane. The rotations are too static. There's not enough opportunity for dynamic or adaptive rotations. The ranged AOE rotation relies exclusively on other spell schools, Blizzard and Flamestrike, both of which forgo Arcane Specialisation. Furthermore, neither of these spells have compelling Arcane talents to compensate or modify them. Arcane mages lack fun, innovative tools and mechanics to control and manipulate their most important resource: mana. Too many Arcane talents lack thematic synergy, nor add much depth or flavour to the Arcane playstyle. We're not empowered with enough ways to manage the Mana Adept mastery.
Cataclysm doesn't appear to be doing much to remedy any of this - and this the reason many are concerned by the current state of Cataclysm Arcane: Where is the thematic, fun synergy that encourages us to mix rotations up and gives the opportunity for added depth and control?
Talent Synergy and Depth
Fire AOE takes advantage of Fire Specialization, excellent thematic synergy, and talents giving the opportunity for depth to skilled players who wish to take advantage of them. (Pyromaniac, Impact, Combustion, Hot streak). The only interaction between Arcane talents/spells and AOE is either very minimal, or just plain boring. Arcane Explosion takes advantage of the Arcane Blast debuff, Arcane Potency might give you a crit after a Clearcasting Proc, and POM can give an instant Flamestrike. What Arcane lacks is more talents that offer depth.
While adding another Arcane ranged AOE spell would be a good step, it wouldn't necessarily solve anything. Mindlessly casting AOE spells (the current Arcane AOE rotation) isn't a particulary inspiring, or fun, design. Adding more spells to mindlessly cast won't change that. Fire is a good example of how talents and spells can thematically work well together to not only add more depth to the tree, but make it much more fun.
Cataclysm Fire has the theme of Dots (The ingame representation of something 'burning'). Do the Fire talents really expand on that theme, and add depth? Yes! Frost has an emphasis on chills and freezes. The question is - do the talents do much to expand on this, give you reasons to care about chills/freezes - and give you fun tools to manage all of this ? Yes! To see examples of how the Fire and Frost talent trees accomplish this, expand the spoiler tag below:
← Click Here
Now finally, lets look at Arcane. It has themes of Mana Management and Magic Manipulation. Lets assess whether the tree expands on that, or adds any depth:
Are these talents meant to be mutually exclusive with those that offer more depth to the playstyle? The equivilant to this would be if Fire had only 1 talent that affected dots, and Frost had one talent that played with Freezes - because the rest of the tree was filled up with gimmick talents.
What does it mean to be an Arcane mage? Does the talent tree do enough to expand upon this?
The official talent tree description reads, "Manipulates arcane energies, playing with the very fabric of time and space." Arcane is all about control. Specifically: Control over mana, control over magic, and control over time.
A skilled Arcane mage needs to exercise a great deal of control and manipulative skills over their mana / magic to be effective. The main point of contention is, with those points in mind, the current Cataclysm talent tree is moving away from that completely - even contrary to Blizzard's own comments - towards Arcane being nothing more than a bag of thematically disjointed tricks with a static, boring rotation - and having little to no control. This is counter-intuitive to what an Arcane mage is supposed to be all about.
Fire on the other hand is moving in the opposite direction: Cataclysm fire design direction thus far has been excellent, and the talents are empowering you with ways to manage and control your DOT's.
For an easy comparison, consider the following Arcane Talents: Improved Polymorph, Improved Blink, Torment the Weak, Arcane Tactics, Focus Magic and Prismatic Cloak. What exactly do they add to the Arcane tree? Do they add any depth or fun to the playstyle, do they give you more control? Focus magic gives Arcane some crit, but do other talents make you care about crit? No. Some of them are still indeed fun quirky talents. But can the real-estate scarce Cataclysm talent trees afford all these quirkly talents, when a strong running theme is lacking in the first place?
Now consider some of the new fire talents: More mobility with firestarter, regenerative rotations with Improved Scorch + Master of Elements + Hot Streak, Pyromaniac rewarding skilled players to manage dots correctly, Improved Flamestrike adding a free Blastwave which in turn will offer more Ignite crits and uptime on Pyromaniac, impact new utility can spread dots - combustion can create it's own ignite then consolidate everything else into it. Critical mass gives some crit, but do the fire talents give us a reason to care? Absolutely: Master of Elements, Ignite, Combustion, Hotstreak. Do they help make you feel like a Fire mage? Absolutely.
Arcane just doesn't tie itself together very well. Maybe that's simply because its lost sight of a running theme. Talents that play off mana and magic manipulation fit Arcane well. Improved Mana Gem is an example. Incanter's Absorption and Magic Absorption as well. Other potential good examples would be the current tier 10 bonuses. Both of those fit Arcane well. It would simply take a little rewording to give them a better thematic feel for Arcane. For example, changing the 4 piece tier 10 mirror image bonus to something such as "Your Mirror Image ability also causes you to deal an additional X% of your total mana/haste rating in damage for the next 30 seconds". The 2 piece bonus could be restated as, "Increases your haste rating by X% of your maximum mana after casting Arcane Missiles".
Pasture made an excellent post on this:
There seems to be a strong underlying assumption that a DPS spec centered around Mana Management should do 30% more DPS than anyone else on a short fight, and (to be fair) 30% less DPS on a very long fight.
I don't believe that is where Blizzard intends to go. If your spec is centered around managing 'xxx' then if you do a good job of that your DPS will be similar to other DPS specs operated by skilled players. If you don't, you will suffer.
A rogue should be given tools to do competitive DPS if he manages his energy, combo points, and cooldowns skillfully. Doing the right thing does not mean he jumps ahead of everyone on the charts. Doing the wrong thing, however, should be easy, and should penalize him.
Likewise, I'd expect Mana Adept to mean that you are given tools that will allow you to maintain high mana, while doing competitive DPS. It should be easy screw up and let your mana drop (causing a loss of DPS). It should also be easy to screw up in other ways and lose DPS while maintaining high mana.
I don't see those tools, so work remains. I'm just expecting those tools to not look like the healers' tradeoff between HPS and HPM.
An idea for the subject of mana management tools:
What about an Archangel type mechanic attached to Arcane Barrage? If Arcane Barrage isn't being changed back to providing a free Arcane Missiles proc, then perhaps it can be changed so that when your Arcane Blast stack is consumed by Arcane Barrage, you regain X% of total mana per AB debuff consumed. That would provide an incentive to use Arcane Barrage if Arcane Missiles proc fishing is unsuccessful after 4 casts.
However, I don't know if that would really provide an interesting mana management mechanic... It's more of a consolation prize for not winning the AM proc when RNG isn't on your side. I suppose it could also be used when a target is low health and the caster didn't want to waste an AM proc but wanted to get some mana back instead for use on the next target (and to bring their Mana Adept score back up a bit).
Ah well. Just another idea.
There's a good opportunity to take the new Holy Power, Soul Shard and Lunar Power type mechanics - and apply them to Arcane. The developers clearly quite like exploring these UI mechanics currently. The idea of using your normal spells and ablities to collect some kind of special resource, and having to make smart decisions on how you want to use that resource most effectively - is a great theme.
Lets say Arcane has a special resource, like the new Holy Power, called "Arcane Power". It would receive its own UI element and is accumulated by casting Arcane Spells. Once you hit the Arcane Power spell, then a normal spell - it modifies the normal spell according to the level of Arcane Power you have. Just like how Arcane Blast currently gives a +damage modifier, but with much more versitility. Arcane Power would replace the need for an Arcane Blast debuff.
Imagine if 4 Arcane Power (equivilant to a 4 Arcane stack debuff) followed by Arcane Explosion - would allow a mage to cast an Arcane Explosion at ranged which pulsed 4 times. Or a 4 stack Arcane Power + Arcane Barrage would cause Arcane Barrage to hit 4 targets simultaneously. They use up the Arcane Power debuff in the process, so you do have an opportunity cost to think about (lose out on single target DPS in these examples). Or perhaps you could use your Arcane Power to modify the effects of a mana gem (make it restore less mana, but give more +% damage via "Improved Mana Gem" talent, or vice versa).
There's no shortage of fun ideas people have been coming up with - the confusing part is, why do the Arcane talents still look so bland and really don't iterate on, or take into account - any innovative tools or mechanics? Torment the Weak, need we say more? "Use mana gem on cooldown" or "Use Evocation on cooldown" is better, but still uninspired.
Our Mastery wants us to keep Mana high, so we need more empowering ways to have control over it to do so. Is Mana Adept working for us, or against us.
Master of Time and Space
The best way to integrate the temporal aspect is through haste effects, and as many have suggested, the two-piece T10 set bonus would be an easy way to integrate this back in. I personally would rather see it attached to Arcane Barrage rather than Missiles as it pulls Arcane Barrage into the rotation. A replacement for Icy Veins would be another (though perhaps off the cards now given we have Bloodlust).
In terms of making Mana Adept and the general mana theme work, there just needs to be more tools to keep mana up. Someone suggested images returning mana ala Shadowfiend for Arcane - not a terrible idea. Another could be that Arcane Barrage could work ala Thunderstorm in that it would actually return some degree of mana on use. I'd also like to see the return of our 15% intellect talent (perhaps as a passive). Arcane can justify having the extra mana after all. All said and done I don't think Mana Adept is the best mastery because it pulls in the opposite direction to Arcane Blast stacks. Using more mana for more damage via Arcane Blast stacks works (though admittedly would work even better if we truly had a 'high burn' cycle). Adding a mastery that has the opposite effect to our core spell doesn't. They both need to be pulling in the same direction. There can be no such thing as a 'high burn' cycle so long as Mana Adept continues to operate as it does - cycles are always going to have to operate around a higher percentage of mana.
The biggest problem to me is changing arcane missiles to be a proc. For mana management to even be feasible as a theme, you need multiple cycles that will trade off dpm for dps. That's impossible to do with just one spammable spell. There has to be at least 2 spammable spells so that a mage can choose which cycle to use depending on the sequence the mage casts those 2 spells. Arcane missiles being a proc removes much of the decision making from the mage on when to cast it.
Mana management tools:
Anything that uses up mana is not a management tool, unless there is a choice between skills.
Otherwise, we have
- Arcane Missiles - proc (40%), zero mana cost. Essentially the pivot point for our rotation.
- Mana gem - Restores mana. Increases damage coefficients, as a percentage of maximum mana. 0 GCD.
- Evocation - Restores mana as a percentage (60%) of our maximum mana. 0 DPS over 6 seconds.
- Mage Armor - Restores mana as a percentage (3%/5 seconds) of our maximum mana. Passive. 3% to crit opportunity.
- Glyph of Mage Armor - Unknown. In LK, it provided mana at half the rate of OOC mana regeneration. Passive.
- Glyph of Arcane Blast - Unknown/Invented. Decreases cast inflation to 150% from 175%.
- MP5 gear - Unknown/unlikely. The only MP5 gear in LK was healer gear, nominally, and it has been changed to +spirit.
- Mana gear - Unknown. On-use gear, perhaps a trinket, that restores a fixed amount of mana. 0 GCD
- Innervate - Unlikely. Healer mana budgets won't allow Innervate to be put on a mage.
- OO5SR - Gone. In combat, you regain mana at combat rates whether or not you are casting.
- Invisibility - Unlikely/Expensive. If it took and kept you out of combat, your regen would increase for several seconds.
- Enchant Weapon: Adept - Unknown/Invented. Each damaging spell that lands on your enemy has a chance to return X mana to you.
After putting that list together, I realize that we are missing nearly half the picture for Arcane magery. While Frost and Fire seem (relatively) complete, Arcane is still waiting for its moment in the sun. Blizzard has yet to let us see what the glyph and trinket lewtz are. As I started inventing the Glyph of Arcane Blast, I realized that there were easily half a dozen ways that Blizzard could provide the much-needed mana management to Arcane, with a combination of glyphs and gear. Part of the decision would be having to choose 3 major glyphs from perhaps 5 candidates.
BTW, has anybody ever noticed that "mana gem" is part of "management" -- just leave off the "ent".
An issue about having an interesting rotation is the fact that Arcane only has 3 damaging spells it uses: Arcane Blast, Arcane Barrage, and Arcane Missiles. A spammable nuke with a mana-intensive debuff, a cooldown, and a procced channeled spell. There's more for AOE, of course, but it's single target that's the issue.
Really the only way to add more complexity and fun to the rotation is to add at least one more spell. A dot isn't likely, because that doesn't really fit Arcane's scheme, so it would be between a regular nuke, another proc, or another cooldown spell, perhaps even more than one. If they don't want to add another spell, they could add some reason for Arcane to want to cast Frostbolt/Fireball/FFB. Arcane did use Frostbolt during BC, and adding some functionality to the tree for that option could open up the rotation, whether it be as a proc or a straight-cast. If they didn't mind adding another spell, they could give Arcane another spammable nuke that didn't add the stacks, letting mages choose different mana-intensive rotations: larger burst through Blast, only using Blast for the stacks and then using the new spell, or only using the new spell, depending on the situation.
Right now the Arcane tree also lacks talents that affect the rotation, barring Missile Barrage. They did say that they wanted more trees to have utility, but Arcane's utility is a little excessive, especially so given its shallow rotation. The few straight damage increasing talents like Netherwind Presence, Improved Missiles, Arcane Potency, Torment the Weak, and Focus Magic do little to affect how Arcane does damage. Torment the Weak does add Frostbolt or Slow to the rotation when soloing, but only before Nether Vortex. It's difficult to see how Focus Magic specifically can warrant space in these smaller trees, when it's a talent that does nothing while soloing, and especially because it's yet another talent that doesn't change Arcane's rotation. Another talent that is very shallow is Arcane Flows. PoM and AP are only available to Arcane, and the Evocation reduction seems like it would fit very well as the selfish bonus to Tactics.
As for mana management, Arcane doesn't have anything that Frost and Fire don't have, besides a shorter-cooldown Evocation. Even Improved Mana Gem doesn't do anything, besides rewarding the use of a mana cooldown that Arcane would be using anyway with its mastery. Mana management is the same thing as it is currently, besides the passive regen from using Mage Armor rather than Molten.
The Arcane tree at the moment looks fun, with all the available utility, but it's a shame that it seems to be conflicting with the possibility of a more interesting rotation. All that would need to be added is maybe two changes: a mana-management ability, and the addition of a new nuke/ the addition of a talent that would make Arcane want to use an existing nuke (either as a proc, or straight-casting).
Some brief discussion on the Arcane talent tree specifically:
1. Having Slow as a pre-requisite for Arcane Power is stupid. Arcane has more than enough points to pick up Nether Vortex, which would give Slow 100% up-time on bosses, and is applied quick enough to other mobs. Forcing us to pick up Slow seems unnecessary. Slow needs to be detached from Arcane Power, though having it as a pre-requisite for Nether Vortex does at least make sense.
2. Torment the Weak needs to go. So badly. It could just read 6% more damage to Arcane spells, and tying it to something that has 100% up-time is just daft. These three points should be removed and replaced with something that actually has an effect for Arcane, be it these mana management tools we're supposed to be getting, or something that does something with the Arcane rotation.
3. Arcane Tactics needs a selfish benefit. It's a wasted point assuming someone else in the raid is bringing it. It's just one point, but a selfish benefit will ensure everyone doesn't roll up to a raid assuming someone else was bringing it.
4. The Fire and Frost trees need some fun utility that Arcane can dip into. Having spent the 5 mandatory talent points in Fire and Frost (I'm not counting Burning Soul as mandatory - I never roll with pushback protection) you're left with another 5 which wind up getting dumped back into Arcane utility. It's not a bad thing to dump into Arcane utility, but there should be attractive options in the other trees. There aren't a lot of obvious contenders - Cauterize seems like one that could be bumped to tier two but that's such a distinctly fire talent.
Some of my collected thoughts on Arcane.
1. What the Arcane rotation really needs is a non-proc, non-instant ability that they want to use on regular basis. I would prefer that Arcane Missiles be that ability. This could be accomplished with a talent like Hot Streak/Brain Freeze that replaces the Arcane Missiles proc and makes it baseline. Then, when proc'd would make your Arcane Missiles cost no mana and provide some other benefit: instant cast, hits mutliple targets, fire extra missiles, etc. Obviously there would need to be some adjustment depending on the decided mechanic. But, it would give you more options in rotation, and I think bring back some fun to Arcane.
2. On the topic of AoE, Arcane needs a new talent, mechanic, or spell to address it's inadequacies in this regard. Torment the Weak and Focus Magic are good candidate talents to be replaced.
3. Arcane Tactics needs a selfish benefit and Focus Magic isn't really that interesting. Maybe the two could be mashed into one, and free up a talent for a new AoE ability or mechanic. "Arcane Tactics - Increases your chance to critically hit with spells by 1/2/3%. Also increases the damage of all party and raid members within 100 yds by 3%."
4. Given the existence of Nether Vortex, Slow kind sucks as a talent. So make Slow a pre-req of Nether Vortex by bumping it up a tier and putting Focus Magic (or the new talent replacing it) in it's place.
Contary to popular sentiment, I like the idea of mana management because it forces the smart mage to trade mana expenditure and efficiency according to the needs of the encounter. This is fun to me. It can work as a playstyle, it just needs to be more interesting. TtW and Arcane Tactics should be redesigned to make more sense in terms of this, then. I suggest:
Torment the Weak will be changed to Vortex Siphon and moved higher in the tree- Mage damage spells against Slowed targets now have a chance to burn X of the target's mana, rage, energy, focus, or runic power, returning mana equal to Y + Z% of damage done, whether any was burned or not. Now you have a reason to care when Slow is applied, and more mana expenditure will return more mana. Appropriately balanced, of course. May need another 2nd tier talent for levelling/soloing, but there are already 3 others, Frost is doing fine with Chilled, and TtW is not a very good levelling/soloing talent considering the DPS penalty of the Slow GCD.
Arcane Tactics will now be called Ley Lines - Mage manipulates local ley patterns so that damage spells cause a Replenishment-style buff that buffs the damage or healing of the lowest percentage mana user in the raid or group that doesn't already have the buff. May or may not work outside of group, depending on "100% uptime" problem. Mana expenditure from causing damage increases players' overall mana efficiency, including the mage's. Could be key in difficult encounters, making it a widely desired raid buff. Makes placement of Focus Magic more interesting - perhaps it should be required for this talent.
If it turned out that this raid buff was balanced such that it was good enough that any players wanted to have it, then arcane mages would be "must-haves" and would be filling every available ranged dps raid slot that didn't need to be something else in order to provide some other raid buff. Note that this would be true regardless of whether it was party only or for the entire raid. The parties would simply be shuffled to include as many arcane mages in as many parties as possible.
If it turned out that this raid buff was balanced such that it was bad enough that nobody thought it was at all useful, then we're left with a "useless" talent.
Fair enough that Blizzard is trying to get rid of unique buffs. I would actually like to see less homogenization, but that is a personal preference, and I can see how it makes balance a lot simpler.
As for your second point, I disagree. To use an example of a raid buff that everyone wants, but no one is upset when they don't get, is Focus Magic. 3% spell crit is nice piece of damage to have, but it isn't huge, and it generally isn't make or break except in all but the most brutal DPS races. By your line of reasoning, if "it was good enough that players wanted to have it," then raid leaders would stack it. Yet raid leaders in my experience do not stack Arcane mages, thinking that this is the best way to get a good DPS raid (partially because of FM circle jerk, true, but I think the point remains). On the other hand, sometimes raid leaders do bring class/spec combos purposely because they have Replenishment. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, Blizzard might disagree.
Furthermore, there does exist an area in between the "must-have" buff that every tunnel-vision doesn't-switch-to-adds meter whore will be slobbering over, and the wasted points that "nobody thought it was at all useful". I wasn't thinking a particularly large buff. In my original conception, I also envisioned that it would proc from certain spells, particularly Arcane Barrage. Some people felt this spell was lackluster, and I agreed, and I also thought it would make the mage rotation something more interesting to consider, and more dependent on situation. I also was thinking of an ICD as well, to keep it from being overpowered as you warn against. I should have mentioned those parts
In any case, I was saying I like what they are trying to do with what we might just call the "mana game"- I think they just need to get a truly dynamic toolset going. To me, that's what being an Arcane mage is really all about - having the tools to manipulate not just a type of magic, but magic itself. The mana game can be a really fun manifestation if they are willing to mix things up a bit. "More mana = more damage" is just too simplistic, and is easily made moot by gear. The tree is also confused by talents that do not fall in line with the mana game.
On the topic of Slow's position, Ghostcrawler recently made a post about prerequisites being there as balance. Yes, it would be nice if we could use that point for something else, but if they put a dps boost in Slow's place, then the prereq is basically pointless.
MMO-Champion BlueTracker | Again with the arrows thing, please take heed
As for Nether Vortex, I really don't like the talent. While it does make it simpler for Arcane to apply the debuff and gain the bonus from TTW, it also basically removes a spell from our spellbook. Meanwhile, a lack of spells is something that Arcane already has a problem with. It would be much more interesting, in my opinion, to have Nether Vortex enhance the usage of Slow, rather than removing its use by turning the ability passive. Affecting damage or mana, both things that Arcane greatly needs, would be a plus.
At the very least, changing the activation from Blast to Barrage would fit better. This would give Barrage more of a use (barring later numbers changes), and having it on a spell that isn't our main nuke would make it more of a decision (slightly).
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