Fire Cataclysm Discussion: OP Updated for Release - Page 19

Maje · 10/07/10, 6:38 PM

One thing to note, Netherwind Presence is also a multiplicative affect, at 40% haste one point in Netherwind equals one point in Piercing Ice in terms of itemization points and from that point on it's worth more.

Tyrian · 10/07/10, 6:53 PM

I've started updating the OP with suggested Talent Build ideas, and discussion on various talents, in preparation for the pre-patch rush next week. Currently need a little help with:

- Hot Streak vs Improved Hot Streak. I've read a lot of info regarding it, but what is accurate as of the most recent beta build? How exactly does normal Hot Streak work: what are the relevant % numbers? Does it scale with crit? Does it remain static?
- Master of Elements vs Arcane Concentration: Would like to confirm how theorcrafters are assessing the relative value of each of these talents, with expected Cataclysm Combat ratings in mind.
- Flashburn: In addition to what the tooltip says, are there any other esoteric or creative ways to leverage the talent, which should be included in short description update? (Can we get a full list of every single DOT Flashburn interacts with)
- Mage vs Molten Armor and Glyphs. I haven't been following this discussion too much in Beta. What is the current sentiment regarding optimal Armor and Glyphs.
- Aoe Rotation. As someone mentioend a few posts ago, we should get this down in text for people unfamiliar with beta. Most specifically, what should people do in the 'gaps' in the rotation where LB is still ticking and Flamestrike has a DOT left. Single target DPS and spread Dots via Impact? Hold off Impact if Living Bomb is close to expiring?
- Optimal Combustion use. People will no doubt come here and want to know, "What is the textbook best way to get the most use out of Combustion?". Which DOT's should be up, when it should be used etc.
- Relative value of Subspec DPS talents with expected Cataclysm Combat ratings in mind (Netherwind Presence VS Piercing Ice). People will be asking which is the best return when at level 85 with poor combat ratings.
- Relative stat values at lvl 85, with expected lvl 85 combat ratings in heroic instance level gear. Has their been any final consensus on the relative values of Mastery vs Crit vs Haste vs Int? I've read a few posts over the months, but not sure how accurate these still are. (People will ask the question: "Should I stack Mastery, crit or haste")
- FFB vs Fireball as Main nuke: Key playstyle differences, stats needed to make them viable, and how the relative value of stats changes between using the two nukes. Need Zal to help with this one. How much of a difference in viability are we looking at? How different is the gear/ratings setup required between using FFB and Fireball?
- Spell Co-efficients. Again, there have been several posts over the months detailing them as they get updated and changed over the course of beta. If they have been nailed down and aren't still in flux, if someone can pull together the spell co-efficients for all Fire spells and compile them - they'll be edited into the OP.
- Gems: With several Cataclysm gem changes planned, what are the new options.

Feel free to respond by summarizing any of the above points, or with information detailing any other mechanics you feel should be explained. They'll be edited into the OP soon. All of the above is intended to be answered with a Cataclysm mindset in mind, i'm not too worried about making the OP post too accurate for WOTLK if things will only change in ~2 months.

Frah · 10/07/10, 9:14 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrian

- Hot Streak vs Improved Hot Streak. I've read a lot of info regarding it, but what is accurate as of the most recent beta build? How exactly does normal Hot Streak work: what are the relevant % numbers? Does it scale with crit? Does it remain static?

Pretty sure improved is bugged at the moment. It is best to wait until improved doesn't reset the count. If it is intended to reset the count the talent is pretty poor. I have tried with and without and I felt zero difference in number of procs.

Originally Posted by Tyrian

- Master of Elements vs Arcane Concentration: Would like to confirm how theorcrafters are assessing the relative value of each of these talents, with expected Cataclysm Combat ratings in mind.

If it's an either or then Arcane Concentration wins hands down. I crit once in a blue moon on the premade mage in full 85 blues. Mana is a HUGE concern to me running heroics especially without replenishment.

Originally Posted by Tyrian

- Mage vs Molten Armor and Glyphs. I haven't been following this discussion too much in Beta. What is the current sentiment regarding optimal Armor and Glyphs.

I am actually thinking mage armour. At the moment I am running molten armour, pyroblast and fireball/FFB glyph since I don't have the living bomb one. I think given the choice I would use mage armour and the living bomb glyph. The mage armour glyph is the dumbest thing in existence at the moment.
In instances I basically oom before evo is back and mage armour is sick. Like really sick regen.

Originally Posted by Tyrian

- Aoe Rotation. As someone mentioend a few posts ago, we should get this down in text for people unfamiliar with beta. Most specifically, what should people do in the 'gaps' in the rotation where LB is still ticking and Flamestrike has a DOT left. Single target DPS and spread Dots via Impact? Hold off Impact if Living Bomb is close to expiring?

Depends on number of mobs. Not tried on beta but on ptr vs 1 target I kick out 13k dps vs 3 it rockets to 18+k using impact. Against many mobs I used blast wave and flamestrike. But it really depends what your aoeing and why. Blast wave + frost circle combination is so strong for a combined aoe+CC+dps.
Impact definably only spreads LB to have it on 3 targets max and drops off the oldest one. So for 1 your looking to impact as early after the application of a new LB as possible and for 2 there will be a point impact cleave gets beat by flamestrike spam.
I'm fairly certain the optimum will be highly dependent on number of mobs. Something like 3-4 impact cleave, 4-x either or and x+ flamestrike/blastwave spam.

Originally Posted by Tyrian

- Optimal Combustion use. People will no doubt come here and want to know, "What is the textbook best way to get the most use out of Combustion?". Which DOT's should be up, when it should be used etc.

When you get all your dots up hit that shit! Seriously crit rates are so low if you wait you'll end up not using it. I often just gave up waiting for a hotstreak and simply hit it when the boss reached 50% and I had an ignite up.

Originally Posted by Tyrian

- Relative value of Subspec DPS talents with expected Cataclysm Combat ratings in mind (Netherwind Presence VS Piercing Ice). People will be asking which is the best return when at level 85 with poor combat ratings.

Get both! Combat ratings suck so hard at 85. The premade chars decked in blue instance gear have about 10-15% crit from gear. Haste is at about 6% and other stuff is pretty low too. them 1%s from talents are pretty huge so much so I would call maxing both talents a must.

Originally Posted by Tyrian

Feel free to respond by summarizing any of the above points, or with information detailing any other mechanics you feel should be explained. They'll be edited into the OP soon. All of the above is intended to be answered with a Cataclysm mindset in mind, I'm not too worried about making the OP post too accurate for WOTLK if things will only change in ~2 months.

Something that I am a bit miffed about is that people are trying to make a single base spec and you simply can't with the talents we have. Basically from what I said earlier about aoe you can pick out 3 situations and a grey area where it would be more personal preference. Single target, 3-4 mobs, Many mobs. Each of these requires different things from the build. Further concerns are the weighting on survival since with the new mana shield and how mage armour works can alter things a lot. Finally there is the frequency of movement can change a build significantly.

I actually think it's better to instead of make a base build clump talents into categories like 3 dmg categories (single target which is basically the base talents, cleave, aoe ), survival and mobile.

base talents that are in all of these specs would be. These are talents in every fire spec you'll make for raiding.
Ignite, Fire power, hot streak, Improved hot streak (assuming it's any good), Combustion, molten fury, Dragons breath, Critical mass, Living bomb, Piercing ice, netherwind presence.

Absolutely everything else depends entirely on what you need most. You want cleave dmg get impact, want aoe get blast wave and flame strike, need to be mobile get firestarter, need to be defensive get cauterize. Trying to pigeonhole 1 spec I think really looses the diversity that the fire mage brings.

The 3 specs I've tended to go with and build from are
Single target
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Cleave (2-4 targets)
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

AoE
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I still wouldn't call either of these a base but you can see there are some big differences between them. That and some talents are picked that other people dont want.

btw flamestrike is an all or nothing talent for anyone with over something like 5% haste since 1 point with 6% haste brings it under GCD self buffed.

Karolus · 10/07/10, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Frah

base talents that are in all of these specs would be. These are talents in every fire spec you'll make for raiding.
Ignite, Fire power, hot streak, Improved hot streak (assuming it's any good), Combustion, molten fury, Dragons breath, Critical mass, Living bomb, Piercing ice, netherwind presence.

.

Why is pyromaniac not in your list ?

iampeebrain · 10/08/10, 12:26 AM

Something else to think about regarding the mana problems people are having. If Mage Armor becomes a viable answer, that also frees up a talent point used in Firestarter which we can then move to max out Arcane Concentration. With this build we have all the mana saving talents without dropping any dps talents.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

• ash2ash · 10/08/10, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrian

- Relative stat values at lvl 85, with expected lvl 85 combat ratings in heroic instance level gear. Has their been any final consensus on the relative values of Mastery vs Crit vs Haste vs Int? I've read a few posts over the months, but not sure how accurate these still are. (People will ask the question: "Should I stack Mastery, crit or haste")

One thing to note regarding this - currently, the tick damage for damage over time spells is calculated indepenently of haste. Extra ticks get applied only after the tick damage is determined, i.e. for equal spellpower, a living bomb at 87.5% haste will tick for exactly the same as a living bomb at 0% haste, it just adds 4 ticks, so there are going to be haste breakpoints that add quite large values to spell dps. The point of spellpower that gets you to 12.5% haste is going to add 25% to your living bomb dot dps.

The same thing goes with combustion as well - it ticks every second so the breakpoints are 5%+n*10%.

As far as coefficients go, I've been doing some testing on damage over time effects and how combustion interacts.

I did some testing at various spellpower levels and I've found that the combustion dot ticks for pyroblast (and probably living bomb) scale completely linearly with the pyroblast dot ticks by the relationship y = 10.33 + 0.299*x. I haven't been able to rationalize that number through damage multipliers and talents, but this should make it a lot simpler to calculate dot damage: You can apply spellpower to the damage calculation then add the haste effects afterwards.

Spellpower	Pyro DoT Tick	Combustion DoT Tick	LB DoT Tick	Combustion DoT Tick
3645	771.00	241	1815	560
3230	717.00	224	1670	516
2042	562.00	179	1255	393
1618	507.00	162	1107	349
1286	463.00	149	991	314
1123	442.00	143	934	297
177	319.00	105	604	199

For anybody curious, I was using this build. I chose talents so that I could avoid any that gave percentage damage bonuses. I was using Molten Armor, Frostfire Bolt, and Arcane Missiles glyphs, and I had mastery trained.

Incidentally, the tick damage for LB and pyroblast were respectively: 541.5 + charSpellpower*.3496 and 295.7 + charSpellpower*.1304

Edit: Added data for combustion interacting with living bomb. The formula for converting ticks came out to be 18.95+.2979*x.

Cartesian · 10/08/10, 7:16 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrian

- Gems: With several Cataclysm gem changes planned, what are the new options.

Going with current information, here a list of the level 80 gems even remotely relevant to us. I can't say much about the gemming strategy at lvl 80/85, but intuitively gemming Brilliants in red slots, Potent/Reckless in yellow ones and hitcap permitting, Veiled in blue ones is probably not at least awfully wrong. And yeah, those of us who have Purified Dreadstones in gear have to regem them when 4.01 hits live as the spi -> crit conversion is removed from Molten Armor. Runed Cardinal Rubies in gear are changed to Brilliants automatically.

RED
Brilliant Cardinal Ruby: +20 int

YELLOW
Quick King's Amber: +20 haste
Smooth King's Amber: +20 crit

BLUE
Rigid Majestic Zircon: +20 hit

ORANGE
Reckless Ametrine: +10 int/+10 haste
Potent Ametrine: +10 int/+10 crit

GREEN:
Lightning Eye of Zul: +10 haste/+10 hit
Forceful Eye of Zul: +10 haste/+15 sta
Jagged Eye of Zul: +10 crit/+15 sta

PURPLE:
Veiled Dreadstone: +10 int/+10 hit
Timeless Dreadstone: +10 int/+ 15 sta

All of these have a blue-quality equivalent at lvl 85 with twice the amount of stats, plus there are some additional lvl 85 gems:

Fractured Amberjewel (yellow): +40 mastery
Artful Ember Topaz (orange): + 20 int/+20 mastery
Sensei's Dream Emerald (green): +20 mastery/+20 hit
Puissant Dream Emerald (green): +20 mastery/+30 sta
Piercing Dream Emerald: +20 crit/+ 20 hit

Finally for jewelcrafters there's Dragon's Eyes at lvl 80 and Chimera's Eyes at lvl 85.

Maje · 10/08/10, 9:52 AM

I was trying to test the current proc chance of T3 Hot Sreak but it seems that on the current beta (build 13117) something is broken it just doesn't proc if you don't have the T4 version.

Also as someone already mentioned Pyroblast! dot is treated differently than Pyroblast they both overwrite each other but the Hot Streaked version doesn't get spread by Impact.

EDIT: Actually it just doesn't work on the beta, T3 just doesn't proc.

Leguaran · 10/08/10, 11:13 AM

My biggest concerns with fire spec at the moment in cataclysm is that I'm having huge issues seeing it as a decent entry-level spec with the reduced amount of crit. I suppose it would be somewhat alleviated if T3 HS was working properly, but then, with the proposed changes to crit % on higher tier bosses, I wonder where we will be sitting as far as crit goes on a raid we are adequately geared for.

Doesn't it feel somewhat weird that our fire mastery improves dot power, but a rather large portion of our dot damage is related to critting?

• ash2ash · 10/08/10, 2:47 PM

Couple of formulas that I've verified on the PTRs. They worked out to within about 1 damage at all spell levels I tested at level 80. If anybody has access to different level mages on the PTRs, you could probably figure out the level coefficient for the base damage of each spell:

FFB tick damage = frostfirestacks*(1+.01*FirepowerTalent)*(1+0.025*charMastery)*1.25*(7 + .00733*charSpellpower)

Combustion off of ffb stacks does ridiculously low damage even with a 3 stack, and it doesn't appear to scale in any way with spellpower. I was getting combustion ticks for about 3.3*(# of stacks) at 177 spellpower and 3645 spellpower. I think this is a bug - it's probably just factoring in the base damage of combustion off of a FFB stack, but not any scaling.

LB tick damage = (1+.01*FirepowerTalent)*(1+0.025*charMastery+0.05*CriticalMassTalent)*(1.25)*(360+charSpellpower*.233))

Note that the critical mass talent is additive with the mastery bonus (took me while to figure that one out!). Also noteworthy: The living bomb glyph currently only affects the explosion.

Pyroblast tick damage = (1+.01*FirepowerTalent)*(1+0.025*charMastery)*1.25*(7 + .3*(197 + charSpellpower*.0866))

All of the rest of the spells behave in some logical fashion (as in they can be explained by known damage multipliers). The base spell coefficients are consistent with the ones that came from simulationcraft.

Another thing that I verified was that Combustion off of an ignite stack is so far only dependent on the amount of the crit and the number of points in the ignite talent. The tick damage for combustion off of various ranks of ignite are:

0.1*damage for rank3
0.065*damage for rank2
0.0325*damage for rank1

They obviously track proportionally, but I'm still mystified as to how exactly the game calculates the combustion ticks for ignite.

Tyrian · 10/08/10, 3:03 PM

The EJ Mage forum could use a separate thread which consolidated all info on:

- Cataclysm gems
- Cataclysm enchants, Librams and Glyphs (What they are, options you have, how to obtain them etc)
- Cataclysm reputations a raiding mage will be interested in
- Combat ratings
- Cataclysm Consumables (Pots, Flasks, Food)
- Listing of Racials for all classes
- Listing of all profession specific perks and bonuses
- Common Macros and mods
- Link to important resources (rawr, popular community spreadsheets and simulators etc)

A lot of the aforementioned doesnt really belong in spec-specific threads like 'a frost thread', but rather can be all pulled out and put into into a consolidated, separate resource - whilst spec specific discussion remains in the 3 spec threads. I noticed this when pondering what to update in the OP, because it'd be silly to put much of this into one spec specific thread - and need to re-paste it into the other 2 spec threads. The new thread would be the sort of place somebody could immediately go to and find answers to any of the above points at-a-glance in a concise format, without having to dig through various spec threads and see what was mentioned in which one.

As an example of of how this was done on the DK forum (though we would separate spec specific discussion from the rest, our DK friend has consolidated it all): http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t105701-...ysm_if_i_fall/

It's a decent bit of work to compile all that infomation into table formats, but would be appreciated i'm sure by the community. Is anyone up for making this sort of thread with the aforementioned information? Maybe named something like, "Cataclysm Mage Resources".

Maje · 10/08/10, 7:31 PM

Did a short test, spamming scorch, was done on the current beta b13117, the test was done with a l80 mage specced fire but who didn't learn mastery, I'll include the interesting part of the log here.

1. Note that the first event in the log is Ignite being removed and I insured the 'bank' was 0 at this stage.
2. Note the scorch critical at 00:44:42.250 after which there is no Ignite refresh and apply which gets swallowed.
3. Same thing happens at 00:44:50.500 where scorch crits, Ignite is not refreshed but critical mass is.
4. That part of the log results in a loss of 5307.2 Ignite damage.
5. I'm at a loss of why this happens, perhaps client lag which causes some events to get thrown, those 'swallowed' scorches seem to be occur just before ignite ticks.

00:44:39.078,SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:39.093,SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4,"Another action is in progress"
00:44:39.453,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:39.453,SPELL_CAST_START,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4
00:44:39.890,SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,2948,"Scorch",0x4,7079,7078,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
00:44:40.125,SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4,"Another action is in progress"
00:44:40.578,SPELL_CAST_START,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4
00:44:40.953,SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:40.953,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:40.953,SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,2948,"Scorch",0x4,7044,7043,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
00:44:40.953,SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,29077,"Master of Elements",0x40,79,0
00:44:41.203,SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4,"Another action is in progress"
00:44:41.562,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:41.562,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:42.000,SPELL_CAST_START,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4
00:44:42.000,SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,29077,"Master of Elements",0x40,79,0
00:44:42.250,SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,2948,"Scorch",0x4,7100,7099,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
00:44:42.250,SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4,"Another action is in progress"
00:44:42.859,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:42.859,SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,1883,1882,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:43.125,SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,29077,"Master of Elements",0x40,78,0
00:44:43.656,SPELL_CAST_START,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4
00:44:43.656,SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,2948,"Scorch",0x4,3452,3451,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:43.890,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:43.890,SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4,"Another action is in progress"
00:44:44.609,SPELL_CAST_START,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4
00:44:44.609,SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,2948,"Scorch",0x4,3430,3429,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:45.187,SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,1883,1882,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:45.203,SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4,"Another action is in progress"
00:44:45.609,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:45.609,SPELL_CAST_START,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4
00:44:46.031,SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,2948,"Scorch",0x4,6846,6845,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
00:44:46.281,SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4,"Another action is in progress"
00:44:46.703,SPELL_CAST_START,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4
00:44:46.703,SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,1883,1882,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:46.703,SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:46.703,SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:46.703,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:47.078,SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,2948,"Scorch",0x4,3370,3369,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:47.359,SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4,"Another action is in progress"
00:44:47.781,SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,29077,"Master of Elements",0x40,79,0
00:44:47.796,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:47.812,SPELL_CAST_START,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4
00:44:47.812,SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,2948,"Scorch",0x4,3480,3479,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:48.531,SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4,"Another action is in progress"
00:44:48.890,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:48.890,SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,1540,1539,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:48.890,SPELL_CAST_START,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4
00:44:48.906,SPELL_CAST_FAILED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,2948,"Scorch",0x4,"Another action is in progress"
00:44:49.296,SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,2948,"Scorch",0x4,7031,7030,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
00:44:49.687,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:49.703,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:50.093,SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,29077,"Master of Elements",0x40,78,0
00:44:50.500,SPELL_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,2948,"Scorch",0x4,7023,7022,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
00:44:50.750,SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF
00:44:50.750,SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,1451,1450,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:51.109,SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,29077,"Master of Elements",0x40,78,0
00:44:52.609,SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,1451,1450,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:54.921,SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,1451,1450,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
00:44:54.921,SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,12654,"Ignite",0x4,DEBUFF
00:45:20.671,SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x01000000003A0B49,"Euclid",0x511,0xF13079A800002471,"Northrender's Training Dummy",0x10a28,22959,"Critical Mass",0x4,DEBUFF

arch · 10/08/10, 10:21 PM

I have to echo the recent concern about molten armor for PvP fire (not to mention the insane mana issues with molten armor for PvE, which further removes crit from fire).

It always struck me as odd to literally force us into using molten armor this way. Sure, each spec now has very strong reasons to use its respective armor. But there are situations in pvp where we will be forced into mage armor and that will come at a price of mobility. Hot swapping armors will be a bit more forgiving now that scorch is free (assuming we have room for that in a PvP spec) and maybe that's the intent but I never really cared for _that_ reactive gameplay.

And the weirdest part is that fire starter disables the crit reduction portion of the armor, which pretty much only has a use in PvP and makes the armor all the more "meeh" outside the running scorches.

I also want to - again - stress that the current iteration of combustion is not a real burst cooldown for PvP, the version with guaranteed crit and a chance for hot streak was better in this regard.

Autumnfire · 10/09/10, 5:15 PM

about how much dps would i loose if i used ffb as a main nuke over fireball?

Zaldinar · 10/10/10, 7:44 AM

Here is Majes log reformatted to be a bit easier to read:

[00:44:39.078] - Ignite Faded, unresolved bank [0].

[00:44:39.890] - Scorch Crit 7079, current bank [2831.6]
[00:44:40.953] - Ignite Started.
[00:44:40.953] - Scorch Crit 7044, current bank [5649.2]
[00:44:41.562] - Ignite Refreshed.
[00:44:42.250] - Scorch Crit 7100, current bank [8489.2]
[00:44:42.859] - Ignite Tick 1883, current bank [6606.2].
[00:44:43.656] - Scorch Non-Crit 3452, current bank [6606.2]
[00:44:44.609] - Scorch Non-Crit 3430, current bank [6606.2]
[00:44:45.187] - Ignite Tick 1883, current bank [4723.2].
[00:44:46.031] - Scorch Crit 6846, current bank [7461.6]
[00:44:46.703] - Ignite Tick 1883, current bank [5578.6].
[00:44:46.703] - Ignite Faded, unresolved bank [5578.6].

[00:44:46.703] - Ignite Started.
[00:44:47.078] - Scorch Non-Crit 3370, current bank [0]
[00:44:47.812] - Scorch Non-Crit 3480, current bank [0]
[00:44:48.890] - Ignite Tick 1540, current bank [-1540].
[00:44:49.296] - Scorch Crit 7031, current bank [1272.4]
[00:44:49.687] - Ignite Refreshed.
[00:44:50.500] - Scorch Crit 7023, current bank [4081.6]
[00:44:50.750] - Ignite Tick 1451, current bank [2630.6].
[00:44:52.609] - Ignite Tick 1451, current bank [1179.6].
[00:44:54.921] - Ignite Tick 1451, current bank [-271.4].
[00:44:54.921] - Ignite Faded, unresolved bank [-271.4].

Edit: Revised reformatting. Posted log is not in the normal combat log format so the script needed another tweak to make it handle correctly.