Are you proposing that frost be given a talent that converts an entire stat into another stat just to make another talent less clumsy in pve? When it comes to things like early frost and ring of frost, I'm perfectly fine if neither are ideal for pve, as long as they have a use in the pvp part of the game. There are plenty of great frost talents, and I like having several points to subspec.

Speaking for myself only, I think some of the concern about ring of frost is due to the fact that it doesn't really add to AoE for any spec. I like the cooldown, duration, and functionionality for battlegrounds, but when "wall of fog" was first announced I was hoping for a significant damaging AoE reminiscent of the wall of fire spells from diablo and other spells. A linear consecration, if you will.

Technically speaking, Squirtle's Freeze does not require a GCD from you and is your most effective method of freezing targets for AoE.

There's also the high possibility of a rooted mob turning around and smacking the Rogue (or the warlock pet, but we meant to do that).

I'm assuming Blizzard is going to be balanced primarily around hitting targets that are not frozen. If it falls behind, they can probably bump up the damage safely or add the spell to Fingers of Frost. I'd rather save my freezes for actual control than for boosting the damage of AoE to acceptable levels.

This has been said elsewhere a number of times, but it bares repeating: stunning mobs isn't a bad thing. If a mob is stunnable, then Blizzard intended for tossing a stun at it to be profitable in some sense. Sure, you're not going to get your 50k Deep Freeze crit in, but that's 5 seconds where the mob isn't smacking the tank while enraged, casting a big heal or lobbing a fireball at the Shaman.

Take the Valithiria encounter for example. The Archmages can be stunned and you want them to be stunned. Deep Freeze can lock them down from casting their Volley. The Blazing Skellies can't be stunned but you want to burn down immediately. Honestly, I've gone through all of ICC as Frost and the only time I wanted Deep Freeze to do damage and it didn't was on the Frost Tombs in Sindragosa (this was more a problem with the mob than the spell though.. as it was unstunnable but not technically "immune").

All that aside: it's trash. Don't worry about it.

This isn't a problem with there being another Frost Mage: this is a problem with Deep Freeze since its inception as a damage attack. The "Immune" message will pop up every time you use it and it does damage. The "Immune" message is for the stun (the damage still happens). There is no diminishing returns for the damage portion of Deep Freeze. Yes, it is annoying. Yes, I want it gone. No, it is not more important than getting a giant icey explosion particle effect when Deep Freeze does damage *crosses fingers*.

I have been playing some bosses in ICC as frost lately (just for some new experience) and I wonder if some of you noticed that you can DF stun-immune bosses without actually doing damage. This happens because DF does not need a LoS to be executed, however, it requires a LoS to do damage. Can someone verify, if this behaviour is still the same on the Beta-Server?

I'm having a hard time figuring out the damage breaking point on frostnova and RoF. I don't believe there is adifference in it between pve and pvp.

I expect it to be working either in the following way:
- the Breaking point is based on the maximum health of the mob
- After a certain amount have damage has been dealt, the chance of breaking it earlier is increased.

or

- the breaking point is based on the level of the mob
- After a certain amount have damage has been dealt, the chance of breaking it earlier is increased.



While testing I was sometimes able to put out 3noncrit Icelances (as firespec) and sometimes 4. The higher lvl mob I sought out the higher the chances of getting extra Ice Lances of. On the lvl 85 mob I was even able to get 5 Ice Lances which was about the same duration as the Frostnova itself. These 5 Ice Lances happened quite often. RoF breaking point is definitely lower than frostnova.

MY Icelances did about 3700-4000 damage. During my tests I got the feeling Flame Orb doesn't break any of the effects while doing damage, not sure.