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Old 02/15/11, 3:05 PM   #211
killeric
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Llane
Originally Posted by rathe101 View Post
If your healers are preventing Cauterize from procing, and thus those talent points aren't being used as often, you could easily move them into Improved Fire Blast, and just using Fire Blast either every cool down, or on a cycle (say anywhere between once every 4 scorches to once every 6 scorches) will result in a DPS increase as per the SimC numbers.
With the recent decreased cost to Fireball, I feel Improved Scorch looks to be a better alternative to free up 2 points then Cauterize.

It may come with a minimal DPS lose but IMHO Cauterize is too valuable a survivability tool to skip.

Last edited by killeric : 02/15/11 at 3:13 PM.

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Old 02/15/11, 3:59 PM   #212
 Wizeowel
old and slow
 
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Human Mage
 
Nordrassil (EU)
Originally Posted by killeric View Post
With the recent decreased cost to Fireball, I feel Improved Scorch looks to be a better alternative to free up 2 points then Cauterize.
You do realise that if you drop improved scorch, then Rathe101's calculations would no longer be applicable?

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Old 02/15/11, 6:54 PM   #213
rathe101
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Zangarmarsh
Originally Posted by Wizeowel View Post
You do realise that if you drop improved scorch, then Rathe101's calculations would no longer be applicable?
Not entirely true Wizeowel, it only changes the mana factor, and I could redo the math to account for that. As long as you have the mana to spare, it should still work out to be a DPS increase, but I'm still leaning on Cauterize as being the easy way to grab those two talent points in order to get Improved Fire Blast.

Personally, if I were to take points out of Improved Scorch, I would put them into Arcane Concentration, as more clear casting procs could mean better mana management for the other spells (instead of just lower mana costs on scorch) Now, I haven't ran any numbers on that change yet, as I'm not sure how to calculate the change in clear casting procs, but it could be an idea.

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Old 02/19/11, 3:14 PM   #214
Kavan
Bald Bull
 
Gnome Mage
 
Kilrogg
When using movement raid events in Simulationcraft is it possible to have conditions that depend on time since you last had to move? For example when trying to simulate something like Atramedes with frequent short moves what happens is that Evocation is more often than not interrupted. A real player will plan for when they do Evocation and do it right after the movement to minimize the chance of being interrupted.

Another comment I have is that distraction event used in helter skelter settings is very problematic. A lot of players have come to understand that the settings correspond to more realistic raid encounter where you have to move around and interrupt things. While it is that, it also simulates suboptimal play. While there is a space for analysing how much a spec degrades under suboptimal play I don't believe the two should go together. I would argue that there's a lot more value in knowing how much a spec degrades under raid events while still playing optimally.

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Old 02/19/11, 10:32 PM   #215
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
Kavan, At present time there is no method of accessing the time since the last move. Nor is there a method to access the "cooldown" of the movement event which might also be useful. I'll work on providing those.

I struggle a great deal with several of the Global options in general and HelterSkelter in particular. I find myself slowly removing options one by one and trimming down the HK setting. Too many bullet-ridden feet out there.

I agree with your assessment on "distraction". Originally, HK was just a "showcase" of the various raid events, but it has somehow transformed into the "more realistic" setting in the eyes of users. Sadly, it is no more "real" than the Patchwerk setting. I have already pruned it a couple times and I believe it will come under the knife again shortly.


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Old 02/27/11, 9:07 PM   #216
rathe101
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Zangarmarsh
Originally Posted by Silverwind View Post
I did a short comparison of racial bonuses for the Arcane module, that might be interesting for EJ readers:

Gnome = 5% max mana = ~400 dps (simcraft run)
Draenei = 1% hit = 102.45 hit rating = 287 dps
Worgen = 1% crit = 179.34 crit rating = 203 dps
Orc = 584 sp / 15s / 2 min cd = 73 spell power = 176 dps
Troll = 2562.5 haste / 10s / 3 min cd = 142.36 haste rating = 172 dps
Goblin = 1% haste = 128.125 haste rating = 154 dps
Blood Elf = 6% mana restore / 2 min = ??? dps

No surprise here, Gnomes come out on top for Arcane and I suspect that Draeneis are the best race for Fire/Frost. The Blood Elf racial is missing because it's hard to estimate and simc currently doesnt use Arcane Torrent per default. Maybe someone can provide a rough estimate.
Just an odd question here, but was [Bloodthistle] accounted for in the blood elf calculations? I know its only like 10 or 11 SP, but i figure its pretty much permanent, and you really suffer no downside to using it all the time.

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Old 02/27/11, 9:47 PM   #217
Silverwind
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Mage
 
Antonidas (EU)
Originally Posted by rathe101 View Post
Just an odd question here, but was [Bloodthistle] accounted for in the blood elf calculations?
No, I didn't even know about it's existance until now. If we really want to include such fancy buffs, we'd also have to include [Crystal of Insight], which as far as I know, every Alliance race could get.

I'll update the racial rankings some times later using the current simcraft profile, there might be some shifts in the ranking.

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Old 02/28/11, 3:51 AM   #218
Maje
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Naxxramas (EU)
I'll update the racial rankings some times later using the current simcraft profile, there might be some shifts in the ranking.
Could you do those taking my previous post into consideration Cataclysm Mage Simulators and Formulators, posting imprecise information on these boards tends to spread like the plague.

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Old 02/28/11, 5:57 AM   #219
DrRumpus
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Mage
 
<amk>
Destromath (EU)
Originally Posted by Maje View Post
... Draenei because if you aren't you aren't losing 1% hit but rather 102.45 rating points of your least valued stat since that's what you'll probably reforge to hit.
This assumes you have not reforged your least valued stat already. Hit is more like 102.45 rating points of your most valued reforgable stat, because you'll take hit instead of that.

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Old 02/28/11, 8:57 AM   #220
Maje
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Naxxramas (EU)
Yes, however the ratings were calculated using a specific item set, namely the so called BiS 372 items (for Arcane). That specific set yielded those numbers, it would only be fair to assume the availability of all items in which case you will be hitcapped with or without Draenei racial and most likely with the added benefit of reforging your less valuable stats.

Or looking at it from the Draenei perspective it means he could reforge 102.45 hit rating into the most valuable secondary stat he has. So yes, both viewpoints are valid and depend largely on the available gear, however in either case Hit is never (assuming a non-convoluted BiS gear) worth more than your highest secondary stat.

Last edited by Maje : 02/28/11 at 9:05 AM.

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Old 03/01/11, 4:46 AM   #221
Nathyiel
Von Kaiser
 
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Goblin Mage
 
Sargeras (EU)
For the question of the racial's influence, I have made a few test with the frost spec. I will only list race with dps bonuses.

Without modification except for Draeneï (reforged hit to mastery):
Race DPS %
Undead/Human 24658 0 0%
Draeneï 24785 127 0.52%
Goblin 24804 146 0.59%
Orc 24994 336 1.36%
Troll 24875 217 0.88%
Worgen 24837 179 0.73%

With optimisation for 27% critical rating and 19% haste rating:
Race DPS %
Undead/Human 24669 11 0,04%
Draeneï 24789 131 0,53%
Goblin 24825 167 0,68%
Orc 24998 340 1,38%
Troll 24897 239 0,97%
Worgen 24880 222 0,90%

I have also made test with 32% critical rating. It's a dps loss around 1.3% for all race.

Conclusion:
  • The race with passive bonus increase the dps between 0.5% and 0.9%. Because of the rating of each stat, Worgen bonuses is better than Draeneï or Goblin but Draeneï can change some blue gem (20intel/20hit to 40 intel).
  • Troll racial is very good. It's the better DPET of all race.
  • Orc racial is the better. Deep Freeze is 5k above the other and elem's dps is 0.2k above (2500 versus 2300).

It can be interesting if we can test in a moving fight ability like Rocket Jump or Darkflight.

edit: I have used SimC 406-7 that don't show Haste from NP (17.11% instead of 19.45%).
edit #2: update with SimC 406-8 (PTR)

Last edited by Nathyiel : 03/01/11 at 8:33 AM. Reason: update with SimC406.8

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Old 03/03/11, 12:21 PM   #222
DrRumpus
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Mage
 
<amk>
Destromath (EU)
I've wondered about something, regarding frost mages. How is petfreeze implemented? I can't see it in the action priority list. Is it hardcoded to be used on cooldown?

Originally Posted by Power View Post
Is there a way to simulate 2-tick-Evocation in Simulationcraft?
I've asked this myself as well.

Last edited by DrRumpus : 03/03/11 at 12:28 PM.

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Old 03/03/11, 8:01 PM   #223
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
We made the pet "smart enough" not to cast Freeze when the mage had any stacks of FoF.

Currently there is no way to do a 2-tick Evocation. I will add an interrupt_if= option that is an expression. This would allow things like:

actions+=/evocation,if=something,interrupt_if=ticks=2&mana_pct>something


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Old 03/04/11, 3:28 AM   #224
Silverwind
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Mage
 
Antonidas (EU)
Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen View Post
We made the pet "smart enough" not to cast Freeze when the mage had any stacks of FoF.

Currently there is no way to do a 2-tick Evocation. I will add an interrupt_if= option that is an expression. This would allow things like:

actions+=/evocation,if=something,interrupt_if=ticks=2&mana_pct>something
Regarding early interruption of channeled spells, I'd love to see a time option in addition to the tick option. So a spell like Arcane Missiles could for example be interrupted as soon as it's GCD finishes, like

actions+=/arcane_missiles,interrupt_if=channel_time>=gcd_length
Note that the above is just pseudocode.

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Old 03/04/11, 7:10 AM   #225
Maje
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Naxxramas (EU)
There are still some errors with MoE implementation, namely Living Bomb is returning 1411 mana on crits rather than the normal 30%, Flame Orb ticks return 20-21 mana per crit tick (not implemented).

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