I've started implementing fire aoe cycles in Rawr. For now I just have normal rotation with maintaining multiple living bombs. This is enough to show that secondary stat priority changes significantly in aoe situations, but doesn't really cover full range of fire aoe. Since fire isn't really my main interest I thought it would be a good idea to solicit for contributions from the community to speed up the process. So if there's anyone out there interested in constructing mathematical models of fire aoe cycles get in touch with me via pm or we can do some modeling here on the forums for everyone to see.
Firstly, flamestrike could be an alternative to the main rotation because it has a higher chance to proc impact. Secondly, talented Blastwave gives a free flamestrike (and again more chance of impact). Thirdly, use impact when there is any kind of ignite on the primary target. Fourth, in a fight where the adds will last longer than 25 seconds, it's worth saving or fishing for an impact until after combustion.
How exactly does ignite spreading work if ignite is present on multiple targets already? I'm assuming it gets overwritten or does it combine in some way? Would you build ignite on single target just for the purpose of spreading it if you already used combustion? I'm guessing if you get ignite from flamestrike you wouldn't spread that. Looking at the numbers I'm seeing as soon as you get to 5 and above targets it's probably no longer worth it to do any single target other than maintaining 3 living bombs.
If you spam Flamestrike for too long you cut very deep into mana reserves, and also even if you intend to aoe for an extended period of time Scorch should be applied and once the initial burst Wizeowel lists is finished and the aoe is not close to being over, fishing for a mediocre Fireball Ignite is worth it if you don't spend more than a few seconds doing it. Perhaps even applying Scorch before you start full aoe to facilitate Ignites for Impact.
The way I do it depends on the number of adds being aoed. More adds means more DPS from low Ignites up on them all the time, while less adds means a bigger Ignite via Fireball fishing grants more DPS than it loses since Impact procs are further in between each other. It is generally case specific but 6-7 targets is a good cutoff for adds that die quickly. Sturdier adds or even one target which is guaranteed to survive is worth it to spend time on for Combustion and spread to lesser or other adds.
In regards to swallowing Ignites with lower Ignites, I have never been able to come up with an answer.
Last edited by okaymindflay : 03/14/11 at 7:59 AM.
Reason: Typo, more information
How exactly does ignite spreading work if ignite is present on multiple targets already? I'm assuming it gets overwritten ...
I made several tests but found it very tricky to analyse the logs when casting the full rotation. Since there are so many things that proc ignite, it's not easy to see if the damage should be higher. So then I switched to just casting scorch and fireblast/impact.
[12:32:48.119] Wizeowel Ignite Raider's Training Dummy 1839
[12:32:48.443] Training Dummy's Ignite is refreshed by Wizeowel
[12:32:48.466] Wizeowel Ignite Training Dummy 1 (O: 1837)
[12:32:48.512] Training Dummy's Ignite is refreshed by Wizeowel
[12:32:48.956] Wizeowel gains Impact from Wizeowel
[12:32:49.906] Wizeowel's Impact fades from Wizeowel
[12:32:50.091] Training Dummy's Ignite is refreshed by Wizeowel
[12:32:50.136] Wizeowel Ignite Training Dummy 1 (O: 1837)
[12:32:50.136] Raider's Training Dummy's Ignite is refreshed by Wizeowel
[12:32:50.136] Wizeowel Ignite Raider's Training Dummy 1839
You should be able to see here that an ignite of 1839 is on the boss-dummy and that came from the level-60-dummy next to it. Right before the last ignite, I pressed fireblast. Since the value of the last tick on the boss-dummy is the same as it was, I'm concluding that impact-ignites indeed overwrite the current ignite. However, subsequent 'natural' ignites will add to the impact-ignite in the usual way.
Also I got some interesting info from Lyrra from Premo. This suggests that (if so talented) it's worth casting flamestrike directly after blastwave and not waiting for the ground damage.
With regard to the fire "AoE rotation" it is worth noting that the flame strike created by imp blastwave "stacks" with the manually cast flamestrike. I just thought Id point it out since I haven't seen it explicitly stated lately in AoE discussions.
Since the value of the last tick on the boss-dummy is the same as it was, I'm concluding that impact-ignites indeed overwrite the current ignite. However, subsequent 'natural' ignites will add to the impact-ignite in the usual way.
Which implies that adds which don't die immediately or soon after aoe begins are worth casting Fireball/Pyroblast on and Impacting an Ignite. This also means it isn't a good idea to just hit Fireblast before a) previous Ignites finish rolling, and b) you make sure that the new Ignite you are about to Impact is greater than the existing.
a) previous Ignites finish rolling, and b) you make sure that the new Ignite you are about to Impact is greater than the existing.
Having spent some quality time with the training dummies this morning I realised that it's actually quite hard to overwrite a large ignite. Mostly it's ignites from LB/pyro ticks and those are small and being removed in 4.1 anyway. Even in the unusual situation where you get back-to-back impact procs by the time your brain reacts, you are halfway through the next fireball and so the previous ignite is sooner to run out anyway.
My profile resulted in the 28.97% raidbuffed crit, which I confirmed to be correct. And even though as of simc rev8003 crit debuff is said to be effected by Shatter the output shows only 96.5% crits by DF and 96.1% by FFB.
So with 1.9% crit suppression DF and FFB should still crit 100% of the time.
Is there an error in my calculation or could it be a problem with simcraft?