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Old 01/04/11, 2:22 PM   #76
dedmonwakeen
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dedmonwakeen
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Originally Posted by Maje View Post
The T3 formula should probably be updated to the new finds see Cataclysm Fire Mage Compendium for more information. The current best approximation is -2.73c+0.95.
Committed to SimC in r6164.


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Old 01/04/11, 5:31 PM   #77
Lhivera
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Human Mage
 
Aggramar
Sneak preview of another update using 6164:

26107 (100.0%) Fire
25730 (98.56%) Fire FFB
25514 (97.73%) Arcane
24975 (95.67%) Frost FFB
24910 (95.42%) Frost

However, there are almost certainly some additional improvements that can be made to the profiles following these bug fixes.

At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.

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Old 01/07/11, 3:59 AM   #78
Silverwind
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Mage
 
Antonidas (EU)
There seems to be something wrong with Ignite in simc. The current profiles list Ignite at 22.6%,22.7% and 23.5% of the total damage done, but in real logs I see 14-17% Ignite damage pretty conistently. Is Ignite munching really that bad, or could there be an underlying issue in simc?

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Old 01/07/11, 7:13 AM   #79
Maje
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Naxxramas (EU)
Yes, ignite munching is that bad, actually it's worse. It's very simple to verify on logs like Chimaeron where there are no immunity phases or adds, you will notice ignite doing less damage then it is supposed to even if you don't include mastery in the calculations. The damage loss as you noted varies but is in the range of 5+% total damage.

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Old 01/07/11, 8:10 AM   #80
Lhivera
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Human Mage
 
Aggramar
Dedmonwakeen did some research on crit suppression, and has confirmed that it (a) exists, and (b) appears to be about 1.8% for spells -- casters with 1.9% crit were able to get occasional crits against the boss-level target, while casters with 1.8% were not.

SimulationCraft now defaults to have crit suppression turned on for spells. This has narrowed the range of the three specs considerably (and also of Mages and Warlocks, although it'll be an hour or so before those results are up).

See original post for the link. Here's the sneak preview of heroic T11:

25245 (100.0%): Fire
25170 (99.70%): Arcane
24838 (98.39%): Fire FFB
24647 (97.63%): Frost
24637 (97.59%): Frost FFB

Now, this is on a Patchwerk fight. Arcane will fall behind on the non-"basic" results that are updating now.

RE Ignite Munching, yeah, SimC is definitely off, but it's going to be very hard to fix I think until we can figure out the circumstances that cause the > 2 sec Ignites.

At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.

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Old 01/07/11, 8:18 AM   #81
dedmonwakeen
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Ignite and Combustion are next on my list. (I got distracted by the Hunter module for a while.)

Regarding Ignite: Given the crap-ton of data I have received from Zaldinar, it appears that Blizzard is employing "speculative nerfing" when it thinks an Ignite might roll, essentially dividing the Ignite bank by 3 instead of 2 in order to compensate. However, they seem to be applying this rather pessimistically.

I will attempt to model this sometime today.


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Old 01/07/11, 11:02 AM   #82
Power
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Mal'Ganis (EU)
I don't want to sound greedy, but could you take look at Fire aoe talents, too? It's just strange that the Warriors start cleaving in the add simulations while the Mages completely ignore the adds.
For Arcane and Frost thats not a big deal (through Frost FFB could try to keep up the dot on the adds) but Fire should gain big DPS via Blast Wave/Improved Flamestrike and Impact.

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Old 01/07/11, 11:09 AM   #83
Blafoorius
Glass Joe
 
Troll Mage
 
Kult der Verdammten (EU)
I was just taking a peek at the simcraft source and noticed, that cold snap does not reset the cooldown for frostfire orb.

If you add "cooldown_list.push_back( p -> get_cooldown( "frostfire_orb") );" at line 1448 of sc_mage.cpp you get one more frostfireorb cast (6 instead of 5).

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Old 01/07/11, 11:14 AM   #84
dedmonwakeen
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Originally Posted by Blafoorius View Post
I was just taking a peek at the simcraft source and noticed, that cold snap does not reset the cooldown for frostfire orb.

If you add "cooldown_list.push_back( p -> get_cooldown( "frostfire_orb") );" at line 1448 of sc_mage.cpp you get one more frostfireorb cast (6 instead of 5).
Good catch. Committed in r6204.


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Old 01/09/11, 4:00 AM   #85
Maje
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Naxxramas (EU)
Regarding Ignite, I don't think it's actually 'speculative nerfing'.

The extra ignite tick that happens sometimes is caused by a crit happening just after(before) an Ignite tick, not sure why but it has to do with the new dot refreshes not affecting ticks mechanic see Fire Cataclysm Discussion: OP Updated for Release.

As to the bug is that sometimes criticals get 'swallowed', ie. they happen but Ignite isn't procced at all see Fire Cataclysm Discussion: OP Updated for Release

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Old 01/11/11, 8:40 AM   #86
Tyrian
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Human Mage
 
Frostmourne
Regarding the gear set currently used by Simulationcraft BIS 372. While we're trying to work out a BIS list for Fire, I went through the SimC BIS List and noticed a few confusing things. The current Fire BIS is unfinished and a work-in-progress, but you can click the spoiler tag below to see the current draft:

Click Here ← Click Here
Work in Progress. There are mistakes and this is not Finished

[item]
Slot Item ilvl Gemming Reforging Source
Head [Crown of the Twilight Queen] 379 1 x 20 int/Hit Haste -> Hit Lady Sinestra
Neck [Valiona's Medallion] 372 Mastery -> Hit Valiona
Shoulders [Firelord's Mantle] 372 1 x 20 int/hit Haste -> Crit Heroic Tier Token
Back [Shroud of Endless Grief] 379 1 x 20 int/crit Mastery -> Hit Lady Sinestra
Chest [Firelord's Robes] 372 1 x 40 int + 1 x 20 int/hit Haste -> Hit Heroic Tier Token
Wrists [Bracers of the Dark Pool] 379 ???
Hands [Hands of the Twilight Council] 372 1 x 40 int Mastery -> Hit Heroic Tier Token
Waist [Belt of Arcane Storms] 372 1 x 40 int Haste -> Hit Maloriak
Legs [Firelord's Leggings] 372 1 x 40 int + 1 x 20int/20crit Haste -> Crit Heroic Tier Token
Feet [Einhorn's Galoshes] 372 1 x 40 int Chimaeron
Ring [Signet of High Arcanist Savor] 359 BOE World Drop
Ring [Signet of the Fifth Circle] 372 Haste -> Hit Cho'gall
Trinket [Bell of Enraging Resonance] 372 Atramedes
Trinket [Theralion's Mirror] 372 Theralion
Mainhand Weapon [Blade of the Witching Hour] 372 Mastery -> Hit Theralion
Offhand Weapon [Book of Binding Will] 372 Haste -> Crit Halfus
Wand [Theresa's Booklight] 359 Mastery -> Crit BOE Blackwing Descent Drop


The link to the actual Simcraft 372 gearset was provided by Lhivera here: Mage_Fire_T11_372.simc - simulationcraft - Project Hosting on Google Code. The code is below:

Click Here ← Click Here
head=firelords_hood,heroic=1,type=cloth,stats=1093armor_217haste_237mastery_325int_57 8sta,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=chaotic_shadowspirit_20int_20hit_30crit,enchant=60int_3 5crit
neck=valionas_medallion,heroic=1,stats=215int_322sta_143haste_143mastery,reforge=mast ery_hit
shoulders=firelords_mantle,heroic=1,type=cloth,stats=1009armor_171hit_191haste_266int _429sta,reforge=haste_crit,gems=20hit_20int_10haste,enchant=50int_25haste
chest=firelords_robes,heroic=1,type=cloth,stats=1346armor_247crit_227haste_345int_578 sta,reforge=haste_hit,gems=20int_20hit_20int_20hit_20int,enchant=20all
waist=belt_of_arcane_storms,heroic=1,type=cloth,stats=266int_429sta_191haste_171crit_ 757armor,reforge=haste_hit,gems=20hit_20crit_20hit_20int_20haste
legs=firelords_leggings,heroic=1,type=cloth,stats=1177armor_217hit_257haste_345int_57 8sta,reforge=haste_crit,gems=20int_20crit_20int_20hit_20int,enchant=95int_80sta
feet=einhorns_galoshes,heroic=1,type=cloth,stats=266int_429sta_191haste_171mastery_92 5armor,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=20int_20hit_10haste,enchant=35mastery
wrists=bracers_of_the_dark_pool,heroic=1,type=cloth,stats=215int_322sta_143crit_143hi t_589armor,enchant=65haste
hands=hands_of_the_twilight_council,heroic=1,type=cloth,stats=841armor_191crit_171mas tery_266int_429sta,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=40int_10crit,enchant=65mastery
finger1=signet_of_the_fifth_circle,heroic=1,stats=215int_322sta_143mastery_143haste,r eforge=mastery_hit,enchant=40int
finger2=band_of_secret_names,stats=190int_286sta_127mastery_127haste,reforge=mastery_ hit,enchant=40int
trinket1=theralions_mirror,heroic=1,stats=363int,equip=onharmfulcast_2178mastery_10%_ 20dur_100cd
trinket2=bell_of_enraging_resonance,heroic=1,stats=363crit,reforge=crit_hit,equip=ons pellcrit_2178sp_30%_20dur_100cd
back=shroud_of_endless_grief,heroic=1,stats=209int_344sta_153mastery_133haste_699armo r,reforge=haste_hit,gems=20hit_20haste_10int,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
main_hand=blade_of_the_witching_hour,heroic=1,stats=165int_248sta_110mastery_110crit_ 2207sp,reforge=mastery_hit,enchant=power_torrent
off_hand=book_of_binding_will,heroic=1,stats=215int_322sta_143haste_143hit,reforge=ha ste_crit,enchant=100int
ranged=theresas_booklight,heroic=1,stats=121int_181sta_81mastery_81hit,reforge=master y_crit


The following items struck me as odd or needing clarification:

- The Meta can be changed to the upcoming replacement next patch (Burning Shadowspirit Diamond: 54int and +3% Crit Damage)
- Simcraft is using Tier 11 4 piece (Head, Pants, Chest, Shoulder) - with offset Gloves. Was [Crown of the Twilight Queen] from Sinestra overlooked? Or is Sinestra excluded completely from the BIS List.
- Using [Bracers of the Dark Pool] - Players have stated that heroic versions of BOE drops are not actually ingame - nor linkable ingame?
- Suggests reforging Mastery to Hit from neck (instead of Haste)
- Red gem in Chest socket is suggested as 20int/hit
- Waist Meta socket is suggested as 20 int/hit
- Will be interesting to note how close the 379 spirit bracers off Sinestra stack up to other ilvl variants: [Bracers of the Dark Mother] - Especially if the current SimC 372 BOE wrist does not actually exist ingame
- Generally suggesting 20 int/hit as Red Gem of choice to reach the hit cap
- Rings: Signet of the Fifth Circle and Band of Secret Names are used. What about [Signet of High Arcanist Savor]? It comes with the Hit by default, and then we can use +40int gems - instead of the 20int/hit hybrids suggested.

Last edited by Tyrian : 01/11/11 at 8:55 AM.

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Old 01/11/11, 9:11 AM   #87
Ektoplasme
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Tauren Druid
 
Eitrigg (EU)
Originally Posted by Tyrian View Post
- Generally suggesting 20 int/hit as Red Gem of choice to reach the hit cap
Since Int is always better than uncapped hit, you won't use an Int/Hit gem to reach the cap. You will use it to activate a strong bonus with a blue socket if there is one.

The hit cap will be reached through reforging.

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Old 01/11/11, 9:12 AM   #88
dedmonwakeen
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dedmonwakeen
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Since SimC supports chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta profiles, it would be convenient to use that service to describe the gear/talents/glyphs.

Our goal is to make all the SimC "bis" .simc files generated from online profiles that are much much much easier for people to view than our cryptic syntax.


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Old 01/11/11, 10:02 AM   #89
takolin
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Daggerspine (EU)
About the 372 Bis lists that's being used.

The throne of the 4 winds drops items with a random enchantment and thus some pieces of gear from the proposed BiS list can be altered in favor of randomly generated loot with a better itemization or ilvl.

1 or 2 rings: [Planetary Band], [Mistral Circle] or [Permafrost Signet] from the council and [Cloudburst Ring] from Al'Akir's item cache.
The belt from the Council: [Soul Breath Belt]
The last relevant drop is a weapon which also drops from Al'Akir: [Stormwake the Tempest's Reach]

There is however some conflicting information about the items. Wowhead and battlenet state that it are items with only 3 stats (stamina, a core stat and a rating), but the items bear 4 stats (stamina, a core stat and 2 ratings) which makes them on par with other loot from raids. I think it's safe to assume that the crit+hit versions of the items will usually be the preferred options for the BiS list.

The only thing I'm not sure of is the use of the rings and whether all 4 can come as intellect based or only 1-2 of them.

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Old 01/11/11, 5:56 PM   #90
elluminea
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Mage
 
Lightbringer
Only the Planetary Band will be BiS for mages. The other three will have spirit, agility, or strength. Wowhead's and Blizzard's own random enchantments are incorrectly listed, and the items will have two secondary stats along with intellect and stamina.

I'd like to know how their unique-equipped status will work, since hit/crit and crit/mastery versions will both be better at the heroic level than the mastery/haste ring dropped by Cho'gall, our only other ring option. Would be nice if the suffix was unique and not the band itself, but that's probably not the case.

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