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Old 12/31/10, 5:39 AM   #136
Asgor
Glass Joe
 
Asgor's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Gilneas (EU)
Originally Posted by ash2ash View Post
Even under the best case scenario of 3/3 arcane concentration, you expect less than one clearcasting proc in between living bombs, so if you are fireballing on clearcasting procs, it will be a net reduction in mana compared to if you continue scorching and use it on living bomb (although it is a small dps gain).
Clearcasting was recently changed and now has a significantly higher proc rate (40% with 3/3 in Arcane Concentration) but also an ICD of 15s. Given Living Bomb's duration of 12s, you can never have more than one Clearcasting proc per Living Bomb cycle.

Since Living Bomb is indeed our most expensive spell in a single target situation, the general recommendation to save Clearcasting procs for Living Bomb refreshes during hover/conserve phases is appropriate, even though the math was incorrect. In practice, you will often deviate from this rule, because even during conserve phases you are responding to trinket or power torrent procs with brief Fireball spam, which can eat your Clearcasting proc before the next Living Bomb refresh.

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Old 12/31/10, 8:01 AM   #137
BeeLz
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by Kvaern View Post
Do you by any chance have exactly 1 pt. in Pyromaniac?
Apparently it's currently bugged and gives you a permanent casting speed increase.

See:
Different casting times - Forums - World of Warcraft
It should also be noted that with 1 point in pyromaniac, you also get another 5% haste when you have dots on 3 different targets. So putting 2 points in pyromaniac is always worse than putting 1 point in it.

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Old 01/01/11, 2:38 PM   #138
Gilthanor
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Boulderfist
Just adding a quick note on the odd relationship between Pyroblast and Pyroblast! I noticed that if you hard cast a Pyroblast at the beginning of a fight (to try and force an early max-DPS Combustion, for example), the DoT component counts towards stacking effects like the Gale of Shadows trinket. However, a Pyroblast! DoT from Hot Streak isn't being counted as one of your DoTs towards maintaining or raising the stacks.

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Old 01/02/11, 10:47 AM   #139
Feebs
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Rexxar
I just noticed a bug with the glyph of conjuring. If you attempt to summon a mana gem without an existing mana gem in your inventory, it cost the reduced mana cost. However, if you attempt to summon a mana gem while holding a mana gem with 1 or 2 charges, it cost the unglyphed version of the spell. It does not seem to matter whether or not the gem is on cooldown or not.

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Old 01/03/11, 4:03 AM   #140
Maje
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Naxxramas (EU)
Hopefuly a conclusion to the T3 tests, the last batch was done with a crit rate of 32.98% using Molten Armor and Leader of the Pack. Was done with Critical Mass, 2t11 and glyph of Pyroblast.

Scorch: 11248 casts, 4227 crits (37.58% vs. expected of 32.98 + 5 = 37.98%)
Pyroblast!: 238 casts, 110 crits (46.2185% vs. expected of 32.98 + 5 + 5 + 5 = 47.98%)
Pyroblast! ticks: 919 ticks, 467 crits (50.8161% vs expected of 32.98 + 5 + 5 + 5 = 47.98%)
Hot Streak procs: 238 (5.6304% proc chance, at the crit rate of 32.98 (CM isn't taken into account))

That is roughly in-line with the linear approximations, -2.25c + 0.8 being a slightly better fit than -2.85c + 1. As to the Glyph of Pyroblast it looks like it does in fact work however with such a small sample size it's very hard to tell, I'll have to run another test for that.

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Old 01/03/11, 2:53 PM   #141
Zaldinar
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Mage
 
Arygos
20% datapoint gathered. My table stands at:

Character Pane Crit Rate Non-Crits Crits Procs
0.1009 7341 807 559
0.2041 6417 1640 567
0.3145 5527 2515 230

Best fit linear equation I've got is Y = -2.8088X + 0.9567, or a logarithmic equation of Y = -0.525*ln(x)-0.5059. The 20% and 30% points line up brilliantly however with a Y = -2.25x + 0.8.

I still don't think my 10% test has enough crits to be considered solid though. If I can find something good to watch this afternoon I'll see about extending that particular sampling.

To truly model the game, we first must research it.
http://zaldinar.wordpress.com/
Proven TheoryCrafting Stuff, chain casting in a PTR near you soon.

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Old 01/03/11, 3:04 PM   #142
Shaewyn
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Mage
 
Malygos
Maje, Zaldinar: Thanks for more data!

Here's the data set we've got:


Trial Tooltip Crit Casts Hits Crits HS Procs
Maje 1 24.26% 1435 980 455 119
Maje 2 21.28% 15301 15301 4169 1426
Zaldinar 1 10.09% 8148 8148 807 559
Zaldinar 2 31.45% 8042 8042 2515 230
Maje 3 32.98% 11248 11248 4227 238
Zaldinar 3 20.41% 8057 8057 1640 567

I've removed my trial, as it was close to Zaldinar 1 in terms of tooltip crit, but significantly smaller sample size.

Using this, I'm getting a formula of P(T3HS)=-2.73c+0.95, with an r^2 value of 0.9884.

I'm also getting better R^2 values with Logarithmic and Polynomial regressions, but not enough different to conclusively say that it's nonlinear.

Last edited by Shaewyn : 01/03/11 at 3:14 PM.

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Old 01/03/11, 3:10 PM   #143
Zaldinar
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Mage
 
Arygos
Shaewyn, your column 4 for hits calculation seems off for everything but Maje 1.

Edit: Disregard. I mistook 'hits' to mean 'non-crits' not 'non-misses'.

Last edited by Zaldinar : 01/03/11 at 3:45 PM.

To truly model the game, we first must research it.
http://zaldinar.wordpress.com/
Proven TheoryCrafting Stuff, chain casting in a PTR near you soon.

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Old 01/03/11, 3:17 PM   #144
Shaewyn
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Mage
 
Malygos
Hits for every trial except Maje 1 is the same as casts, as I don't have hit/miss data for the other trials. In any case, it shouldn't affect the T3HS probability as that's based on crits vs procs.

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Old 01/03/11, 4:09 PM   #145
Zaldinar
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Mage
 
Arygos
Here's a graph using the Y = -2.73x + 0.95 formula in a simulator to strictly show the procs per crit and per cast of the result of adding T3 and T4 HS together. This assumes that a sequence of Non-Crit, Crit + T3 HS Proc, Crit will not produce a T4 HS proc as well, but still can produce a T3 HS proc. Each 1% of crit had 1 million cast simulations done on it to smooth out noise. Higher iteration versions can certainly be done and I can release the data if we want to use it to compare vs any formulaic approach to their combinations:



The shape is not entirely dissimilar from the earlier version from our old formula ( Linked so as not to be confused as current ), but it does show a slight dip before T4 HS takes over from T3.

To truly model the game, we first must research it.
http://zaldinar.wordpress.com/
Proven TheoryCrafting Stuff, chain casting in a PTR near you soon.

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Old 01/03/11, 4:19 PM   #146
Shaewyn
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Mage
 
Malygos
Looks good! That's the same shape I'm getting. It's interesting that at 35% crit there's a slight dip in HS proc rate, but from 20% crit to 30% crit the curve is reasonably constant. I'm going to adjust the simulator (you sent me the C++ sim you wrote earlier) and try to figure out a coherent/simple way to describe the effect of debuffs/crit suppression on the hot streak talents.

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Old 01/03/11, 8:44 PM   #147
Kuraiholy
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Rivendare
I read through this thread and didn't see anyone mention it but I've done some tests and noticed something, I'd like someone to back me up if they've tried.

It seems to me that the Glyph for Frostfire bolt doesn't work as intended.

"Increases the damage done by your Frostfire Bolt by 15% and your Frostfire Bolt now deals 3% additional damage over 12 sec, stacking up to 3 times, but no longer reduces the victim's movement speed."

My tooltip when testing said that FFB does 10349 damage. Of course I realize that's the average and all but let's just use that for the numbers.

10349x.03= 310.47, So take that x3 because it stacks, it should have a dot that's roughly 931.41 right? When I was trying it, the dot would sometimes crit for 700, but the maximum non-crit tick I had was about 360. I kept 3 stacks up the entire fight but the normal tick never got near 900 even. Has that been happening to anyone else? I reglyphed just in case but still got the same effect. Forgive me if that's been done to death, I only really searched this thread on the subject.

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Old 01/03/11, 11:30 PM   #148
Volarun
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Mage
 
Deathwing
The damage is the damage done over the whole duration of the dot so 910 damage over 12 seconds, then increased by mastery/other effects.

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Old 01/04/11, 6:39 AM   #149
Manbis
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Malygos (EU)
I have 2 questions.

1. I was thinking about delaying my flameorb a few secs because i have so many procs right now which give spelldmg. Weaponproc, 2 trinkets, Tailoring and ingi. All together will boost my spelldmg to 11k-12k which should boost my flameorb. Right now I´m doing it from second try on bosses because i can see if the delay would cost me one more flameorb at the end of the fight.

2. Why is nobody talking about t10 4 bonus? Why not PRE-CASTING Mirror images with t10 and then equip your cata gear and reg some mana before pulling the boss? Should that not be obvious?

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Old 01/04/11, 8:10 AM   #150
Naqaj
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Emerald Dream (EU)
Originally Posted by greatzar View Post
Only reason I can think of for wanting that additional tick is dpm increase (25% for fifth tick). But it's really minor issue from my point of view.
So, why?
DPM is quite important for Fire. In this case, as you spend less mana on refreshing LB you have more mana to spend on your main nuke. Also, with maximizing the duration of the dot, you're also minimizing the amount of recasting it. While this might be small DPS loss for Living Bomb itself, it's a net DPS gain for your total damage.

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