I apologize for my apparent ignorance, but the last few posts about Combustion and rereading the OP carefully opened my eyes to something. If Combustion only takes into account DOT DPS at the snapshot of casting combustion, does that mean the duration of the LB and Pyro dots doesn't matter? I've been popping SP trinks/waiting for procs, getting a big ignite, and then at least refreshing LB while it's already on the target before casting Combustion, in an attempt to get a "bigger" LB in the Combustion than one that has ticked a couple times. I think I got into the habit of this because of the lights going red on Combustion Helper as the dots near expiration, and I'm now assuming this was incorrect. Did some searching and didn't find anyone explicitly mentioning DOT duration left as a factor.

DOT duration is not a factor. If you have your big ignite up and you can pull off the combustion before living bomb expires then do so as you will still get the full combustion and duration barring no ignite munching of course.

Killercrank: Thank you for the confirmation.

Wizeowel: I understand that is the intent, but when I was first introduced to Combustion Helper it's easy to assume green means go and red means recast/refresh. Especially with the "Total Damage" portion kinda small and hard to read/pay attention to as you are fighting, it's hard to pick up on it only changing due to ignite ticking away.

Maybe a more direct explanation regarding DOT duration on this FAQ and the Combustion helper addon page would help others who think as I did. It's easy to assume that Combustion is the sum of all of your dots, which would imply a half expired dot is not worth as much as a fresh one. All depends on how much hand holding you guys are comfortable with I suppose.

Lot of nice work in here, one question real fast tho is it worth the hard cast a pyroblast if there is not a pyroblast currently on the target?

Hey, I'd like to open by saying that this thread is a great resource that I use often. Having just switched to playing a fire mage a couple days a week all the work that goes into making this thread accessible is extremely valuable to me as I try to optimise my play with the time I have.

I've looked through and hope I havn't missed the answer to these questions.

As I understand it all DoTs will dynamically change how hard they hit and whether they crit from tick to tick based upon your stats at the moment the tick hits. Does haste work the same? If not then does the game take the haste value you have at the moment the DoT is cast and use that even if you subsequently lose the haste buff during the duration? If this is the case might it sometimes be worth refreshing LB before it expires because, say, bloodlust just got popped? Also does refeshing LB before it drops off maintain the haste you had when you first applied LB to the target?

The OP lists Combat Ratings with 4 digit precision, but doesn't give any source.
We know it's probably from SimCraft, but from what gear-set, what preset, fight duration, priority-list?
It's confusing. Either link to the source, or post an algorithm how to obtain the values, instead of posting them selectively.


I ran SimCraft on it's Mage_Fire_T11_372 preset.
The gear is: chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta
It looks pretty much BiS for me.
The result: Simulationcraft Results

Then I ran a test with +600 haste -600 crit.
The result: Simulationcraft Results
It gave more DPS and the relative stat values changed (crit even slightly higher than haste).

More test like this should be made in order to obtain the BiS gear for a specific fight duration and specific conditions (i.e. no adds, no movement).


Is the action-priority list optimal?
From the few tests I saw I think SimulationCraft (version 406-4) doesn't allow the mana drop below ~40%.
It tells to cast more scorches than necessary.
I.e. the 3 tests:
Simulationcraft Result 1st
Simulationcraft Result 2nd (+1000 crit, -1000 haste than the first one)
Simulationcraft Result 3rd (+1500 crit, -1500 haste than the first one)

Could it be because of these actions on the priority list?
I fireball,if=mana_pct>39
J scorch,if=mana_pct<95&cooldown.evocation.remains>60



Moreover, there are many things which Simcraft doesn't take into account, which would affect the scale factors:
- adds on some bosses (Halfus, Maloriak, Magmaw)
- burst/execute phases on some bosses (Ascendant Council, Chimaeron)
- movement / burst phases (Al'Akir, Conclave of Wind, Atramedes)
- multi-target fights (Valiona&Theralion, Omnotron Defense System)
- specific damage mechanics on some encounters (Sinestra, Nefarian, Omnotron Defense System, Magmaw)

It is easy to guess, that the value of haste on Sinestra (+100% casting speed for 3 minutes) will drop significantly.
It's hard to guess, and I'd be very interested in the answer: which stats are most important on Halfus encounter, where Combustion and Ignite can be the top 2 damaging abilities for a Fire mage (i.e. here).

The given values did in fact link (until very recently) directly to Lhivera's Simulationcraft output, which has only recently been taken down, around the time SimC is coming out of beta. And indeed had all manner of information regarding what chardev profile, priority-list, talents, glyphs etc were used. The last update there looks to be 8th February, so it's now a little out of date and doensn't have Lhiv's output page as reference since its shutdown.

This is why there are multiple warnings such as, 'treat these as a guide only' and 'values are subject to change' and 'the best course of action is to check Rawr/SimC for yourself'.

It might be best to just scrap trying to offer them completely, and simply tell people to figure them out for themselves. They change quite often and are a continued source of confusion by people who blindly seek 'magic numbers' to take away and put on a pedestal. The focus is meant to be shifting away from offering magic numbers, and encouraging people to educate themselves via Rawr / SimC to find the most appropriate results applicable to their character.

I'd agree. However, since this thread is about fire. There are absolutely no sim results showing mastery over crit or haste (that was alphabetical order, don't freak out bandwagon gurus).

I'd prefer to say Int > Hit > Crit or Haste > Mastery

Has there been any research done on the potential issues that may arise from a Combustion travel time? I have noticed a delay between casting the spell and when it actually "arrives" on the target. Whether or not this results from a travel time or some other factor, I have not determined.

The principle question that comes to mind: Does Combustion interact with Living Bomb, Ignite, and Pyroblast DoTs when it is cast -or- when it arrives?

If it interacts upon arrival rather than on cast, this could raise some other issues.

Can someone confirm that the dot mechanics really work like this? I always assumed that the whole dot damage depends on the stats at the moment of casting the dot.

I think Dappercad was remembering a mechanic from WotLK whereby they let the crit be recalculated during the course of a spell. This was fixed in Cataclysm, and now all spells use the stats at cast or refresh, and are not recalculated during the dot.