Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Mages

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02/25/11, 6:54 PM   #361
Valindil
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Jubei'Thos
Originally Posted by Leifo View Post
My answers are no it's not silly to hold back
Just doing some tests on dummies:

- My average LB seemed to do from 35 - 45k damage including dot ignites
- My average Combustion was like 150k

This means that for every second LB isn't up your combustion needs to be ~2% - ~2.5% stronger. If you need 10 seconds to get a big enough ignite your combustion will need be 20-25% more beneficial. That is a pretty steep curve and in my experience it doesn't give enough benefit and you're just trading ignite munching RNG for getting quick successive crits RNG.

Last edited by Valindil : 02/25/11 at 9:24 PM.

Offline
Old 02/25/11, 8:40 PM   #362
okaymindflay
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Arthas
Combustion ticks do not trigger Ignite, and they haven't for quite some time. Perhaps the original post could have a line of text added to reflect this to avoid any confusion, as several posters have made such an assumption.

Last edited by okaymindflay : 02/26/11 at 11:15 AM.

United States Offline
Old 02/25/11, 9:25 PM   #363
Valindil
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Jubei'Thos
Originally Posted by okaymindflay View Post
Combustion ticks do not trigger Ignite, and they haven't for quite some time. Perhaps the original post could have a line of text added to reflect this to avoid any confusion?
The initial impact does though. I removed the ignite text though because its pretty negligible compared to the overall damage anyway.

Offline
Old 02/28/11, 11:01 AM   #364
Brazos
Von Kaiser
 
Brazos's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Lothar
No one has asked this yet. How will the changes to ignite effect our AoE? I fear that it will go down more than the 0.5% we are seeing on single target. I doubt we had as many ignite munching problems in an AoE scenario.

Sure, we will have higher igntes on the average, but there will be less of them and it may take too long to even get one to spread before we lose the impact proc. Our pyro dots, which spread to all targets, will no longer cause ignites. Living bomb dots will not give us ignites on the 2nd and 3rd targets.

Yes, we will have larger combustions on the average too, but that just lends to more consistency with expected combustion damage, it is not really a buff of sorts. It would seem that we have already seen the largest AoE potential of our class. Also, this will probably lead to reduced uptime of pyromaniac. I am glad that they are trying to fix ignite munching, but they really aren't. If the core mechanic of ignite simply can't be done, then it needs to be revisited completely.

The fire spec has always been the most appealing to me because of the AoE we can do. This really sets us apart from the other two specs, especially in cata. I'm sure that our AoE will still be pretty decent, but this change is hurting our spec more than helping it I'm afraid.

United States Offline
Old 03/02/11, 11:13 AM   #365
yartiemi
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by lmaoskates View Post
You can aswell just run to your platform spamming scorch - so no, there is no real downtime. At least our raid brings Nef in P2 always as low as possible, so there is always a target to DPS.
Depends on the raid damage, there is a big dps gap between being able to do 2 electrocutes and 3 in p1.
We find when ony gets killed nef is already at 71% so a blink and a evo is all I'm able to do.

Offline
Old 03/02/11, 11:58 PM   #366
Dtekkar
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Crushridge
Combustionhelper

A feature I would love to see in Combustionhelper is my fireball-to-scorch ratio. My mage is an alt in a mix of 346's and 359's, and I find myself using both. On a near-downing, if I run OOM too early (or don't run OOM by the downing) I can then make a mental note of what ratio I had (say in the form of 0.86:1, maybe on the ui down near the critical mass check) and make sure it is higher or lower next time, watching the readout as I play. For those in 372's it will likely still be relevant in a marathon boss down the road, or a long AOE gauntlet as well.

Offline
Old 03/03/11, 6:18 AM   #367
 Wizeowel
old and slow
 
Wizeowel's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Nordrassil (EU)
Originally Posted by Dtekkar View Post
... I run OOM too early (or don't run OOM by the downing) I can then make a mental note of what ratio I had (say in the form of 0.86:1, maybe on the ui down near the critical mass check) and make sure it is higher or lower next time, watching the readout as I play.
We don't need to bother Angayelle for this, you can use TimeToDie and TimeToOom addons to estimate mana consumption.

Netherlands Offline
Old 03/03/11, 7:06 AM   #368
vukae
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
Originally Posted by Wizeowel View Post
We don't need to bother Angayelle for this, you can use TimeToDie and TimeToOom addons to estimate mana consumption.
And Recount's detail window will give you your number of fireballs/scorches if you want to figure out what ratio you used (albeit after the fight).

Great Britain Offline
Old 03/09/11, 1:23 AM   #369
Ominyx
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Mage
 
Kilrogg
warlock dark intent: better for a shadow priest or a fire mage? i'm guessing sp but maybe I'm wrong which would be fine with me.

United States Offline
Old 03/09/11, 7:32 AM   #370
Drimacus
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
Originally Posted by Ominyx View Post
warlock dark intent: better for a shadow priest or a fire mage? i'm guessing sp but maybe I'm wrong which would be fine with me.
I've taken a look into our raidlogs. About 43% of my dmg is damage over time. A similar equipped sPriest has ~about 52% dot dmg. So more beneficial for sPriests.

Last edited by Drimacus : 03/09/11 at 7:59 AM.

Offline
Old 03/09/11, 9:10 AM   #371
Light4
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Mage
 
Antonidas (EU)
52% seems awfully low. It should be more in the 85% region. Don't forget to count Mindflay as DoT.

The Guide to Dark Intent can be found over at MMO.

Offline
Old 03/10/11, 10:31 AM   #372
Pasture
Don Flamenco
 
Pasture's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Steamwheedle Cartel (EU)
The two most recent patch changes that may effect Fire mages:

Combustion no longer has a global cooldown.
Which saves us 2-3 global cooldowns per fight. And:

Blizzard damage has been increased by 70%.
I'm more interested in the latter. Is this buff enough to bring Blizzard back into our AoE rotation? 70% damage increase more than counters the specialisation bonuses each spec receives.

Offline
Old 03/10/11, 2:03 PM   #373
Roywyn
Bald Bull
 
Roywyn's Avatar
 
Roywyn
Gnome Mage
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
Combustion no longer has a global cooldown.

Which saves us 2-3 global cooldowns per fight.
Think about it the other way around as well. If it's off the GCD, you can cast it anytime you want. Imagine you just saw/predicted a huge Ignite/DoT stack to spread but also cast another instant spell or started a Fireball/Scorch. You can now cast it immediately without risking a change to your DoT.

Of course, you should avoid cancelling casts and your DoT stack usually doesn't change within 1 GCD, especially when Ignite from DoT crits is removed. It still seems situally useful when you want to spread your DoT right now.

Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t106009-...2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

Offline
Old 03/10/11, 2:50 PM   #374
 ash2ash
Operation Asian
 
ash2ash's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
I'm more interested in the latter. Is this buff enough to bring Blizzard back into our AoE rotation? 70% damage increase more than counters the specialisation bonuses each spec receives.
They could make increase the damage all they want on blizzard, but compared to fire, it suffers from having really poor mobility. There's not a single fight in the current tier that doesn't require mobile aoe, which fire excels at. If arcane's damage is comparable to fire, there might be a case for arcane explosion being sufficient, but blizzard falls short since if the mobs move outside of your targeting reticle, you lose a ton of damage.

I point my camera at stuff and I press buttons:

picasaweb.google.com/pariah99

United States Offline
Old 03/10/11, 3:06 PM   #375
GnomerTerp
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Windrunner
Originally Posted by Roywyn View Post
Think about it the other way around as well. If it's off the GCD, you can cast it anytime you want. Imagine you just saw/predicted a huge Ignite/DoT stack to spread but also cast another instant spell or started a Fireball/Scorch. You can now cast it immediately without risking a change to your DoT.

Of course, you should avoid cancelling casts and your DoT stack usually doesn't change within 1 GCD, especially when Ignite from DoT crits is removed. It still seems situally useful when you want to spread your DoT right now.
For me, this change will shine in some of the encounters requiring a decent amount of AOE. I've had plenty of occasions where i'm fishing for that great crit so I can pop combustion and spread via impact - only to have the impact proc expire after combustion is cast.

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Mages

Thread Tools