Thats the kicker isn't it. I was thinking when I orginally posted it, FFB's DoT was a way to limit volatility with Ignite as 15% (+ Mastry ~ 30% ) of every FFB hit would be burning away- the down side is lower ignites and anther dependent on your Prime Glyph replacement.

Im currently running Molten Armor, Pyroblast, Fireball as my prime glyphs

My initial impluse is that Pyro's +5% would go- as a greater benifit is given to dual primay nukes = more ignites as more fireballs are cast then pyroblasts (although Im probly understating smoothing from Hot Streak)

Rawr is also showing the figurine as the BIS even over heroic trinkets. Even while trying the different setups it is still showing the figurine as a +100 dps increase over heroic heart of ignacious. I know that the value of intellect and spell power is huge when compared to secondary stats but I still find this pretty weird.

Even with the changes made next patch, I doubt that any trinket will come close to it according to rawr.

I also noticed that when building up a BIS list, the figurine is never mentioned, is it because theorycrafter based their calculation on something else than rawr or is it because it's a jewelcrafter only item?

After playing around with your spreadsheet Adramelech86 and looking at different setups in rawr. I found something that can show how figurine is valued so high in Rawr. And the culprit is hit.

Lets say that I am hit capped in my current gear, but the 2nd trinket slot is empty and i need to chose a trinket. The spreadsheet tells me that with my stats that figurine - jeweled serpent and bell of enraging resonance are about the same value, bell a little higher. But since I am hit capped the bell loses the extra points its getting from reforging crit toward hit.

With this in mind you can only use the spreadsheet in its current form if your are lacking more hit (to cap) than you gain from reforging towards hit on that item.
hit cap = X
reforged from trinket towards hit = Y
hit on current gear = Z
X=>Y+Z

but if

X<Y+Z
then you need to manually calculate how much of Y you can use.

Hey guys, I have searched through this thread and the Q/A thread and I haven't found an answer. Is it a good idea to, situationally as well as a last resort, hardcast pyroblast only when your pyroblast dot is about to fall off your target. Sadly I am SimC illiterate, however, I have tested out both rotations on a dummy and with keeping up pyroblast dot at all times has come out superior by a large margin every time. Now I do realize that ilvl plays a very large roll in how often you get a HS Pyroblast, which would mean that having to do this would be a lot less frequent. However I am right now a ilvl 350, which is very low compared to you guys I would imagine, and I find my pyroblast dot falling off the target very frequently throughout a fight. The last problem I can find with this idea is running out of mana faster. I have performed this rotation on 6 of the (non-heroic) bosses in Cata and have yet to run out of mana prematurely on any, including Halfus (heavy aoe in the beginning.) If this has already been covered and I looked over it somehow, I apologize.

You should use:

actions+=/pyroblast,if=!in_flight&!dot.pyroblast.ticking

Its still a dps loss.

Hello, I've been working on combustion for the past few days and I believe I have figured out at least parts of it. I believe the role of ignite in combustion is already known. I have been working on how spell power and mastery behave for computing Combustion dps contributed from Living Bomb dot and Pyroblast dot. I haven't completed work on pyroblast dot but I have completed work on Living Bomb dot. I wanted to post this now to show what is working for me. Here was my starting point:

(Change in spell power) / (Change in damage) = a constant (c)

Note: Mastery must be constant through this process (12.35 is what I used). First get a baseline for spell power (x₂) preferably something really high, then get a baseline dps of Combustion (y₂) with only Living Bomb dot present at (x₂). Next, reduce spell power (x₁) as low as possible, then get the dps of Combustion (y₁) again with SP at (x₁). The constant 5.561 is the result of this process using my data and the formula I derived is as follows:

∆x / ∆y = c
(x₂ - x₁)/ (y₂ - y₁) = 5.561
(x₂ - x₁) = 5.561(y₂ - y₁)
(6675 -x₁) = 5.561(1548 - y₁)
6675 -x₁ = -5.561y₁ + 8608.428
6675 – 8608.428 -x₁ = -5.561y₁
-1933.428 -x₁ = -5.561y₁
(-1933.428 -x₁) / -5.561 = y₁

Or:
Y = (x + 1933.428) / 5.561

This formula works for any amount of spell power as long as you keep mastery at a constant 12.35. You can tell that this formula is only partially complete. The complete formula looks like this:

Y = [(x + 1933.428) / 5.561] + z

z is what mastery does to the dps, whether it increases or decreases. Explaining z is a bit complicated. It has to do with the behavior of the dot when spell power is constant and mastery increases or decreases. The process is much like the one above of establishing a baseline, obtaining constants, then predicting the behavior.

While still keeping the same baseline spell power as above at a constant (mine was 6675), setup your gear to give two variations of mastery that give you the greatest difference. For me this was 14.06 and 9.85 mastery or 39.368% and 26.824% dot damage increase respectively. Gather Combustion dps data with only LB present for these mastery values and use them in the following formulas.

Note: for the equations below, %mastery will represent the percentage of dot damage increased through mastery in order to keep things short and easy to read.

(∆Combustion dps) / (∆%mastery) = a constant (d)

What this means is that at a constant 6675 SP, if you increase the dot damage through mastery by 1%, the dps of Combustion will increase by the constant (d). My value for (d) = 21.604∆dps/ ∆%mastery.

Repeat the above process for a lower value of spell power (I used 2655) that gives the biggest difference to obtain another constant. My value for this constant (e) = 11.375∆dps/ ∆%mastery. From these two constants we can derive another constant that will give us the relationship between mastery and spell power for Combustion dps.

(∆spell power) / (d - e) = a constant (f)
(6675 - 2655) / (21.604 - 11.375) = [393.000(∆SP * ∆%mastery)] /∆dps Note: just showing the units to keep things in track.

Evaluating z:

z = (∆%mastery) * [ d - (∆SP / f) ]

Note: Still using the baseline 6675 SP and the behavior of dps vs mastery at that SP of (d) = 21.604∆dps/ ∆%mastery. Also, remember that while obtaining the data for the very first formula, the mastery was kept at a constant 12.35 or 34.58% dot damage increase; we will be using this again since it was our baseline.

z = [(New % mastery) - 34.58%] * [(21.604∆dps/ ∆%mastery) - {(6675 - new SP) / (393∆SP * ∆%mastery/∆dps)}]

Without units so it's easier to read:

z = [(New % mastery) - 34.58%] * [21.604 - {(6675 - new SP) / 393}]

Final formula, (x = current SP, m = current %mastery, Y = Combustion dps with only LB dot present):

Y = [(x + 1933.428) / 5.561] + [(m - 34.58%) * [21.604 - {(6675 - x) / 393}]]

With this formula, you can predict Combustion dps contributed through LB dot and in theory, this formula should work for all fire mages with spec/glyphs the same as my mage, but would I need more data and results from other mages to make any final conclusion. The margin of error has been ± .5 dps so far, but like I said, I will need more data. I would love to see if other mages can predict their Combustion dps contributed by LB dots. This of course is only part of the equation. As for Pyroblast dot, I have the initial formula established and I expect to do much of the same work to get the final formula. I expect the formula to be almost identical to that for LB but with different constants. In the end I believe total Combustion dps will be the sum of values obtained from the independent formulas for LB, Pyro, and Ignite. This will also need testing and confirmation.

Caution and some advice for anyone wanting to replicate this:
1. It helps if you save the different configurations of gear; you may need them later.
2. When obtaining data, be sure that spell power or mastery procs aren't active.
3. When obtaining ∆x and ∆y or any other difference that will be divided, having the greatest difference gives you the least margin of error. Having said that, you should also test smaller increments to insure that there is a trend there that will result in a constant. Some increments may be too small and even a small margin of error (i.e. ±.5) in the beginning could end up making a huge difference.
4. When using dps meters to obtain data, note that the damage is separated into min/average/max. The average damage is rounded up or down so it will throw off your calculations. A better way than just using that average would be to take the total damage, subtract the total critical hits, then divide by the number of hits.

Thats all I have for now. Please leave some feedback; test results would be appreciated, and let me know if I have made any errors or if you see a better way of doing anything.

P.S. I didn't talk about haste because it does not affect the contribution from aforementioned dots to Combustion dps. I believe this has been proven somewhere in this very thread.
P.P.S All data collection and tests were conducted on a Raider's Training Dummy while self buffed only and Molten Fury was not active. Damage increasing buffs like Molten Fury will most likely change the formula.

Edit: Changed some numbers for better accuracy. The margin of error now is ± .5 dps.

I believe my results from here and a few posts later still hold to within a few dps from rounding/testing with damage talents active (and are simpler to deal with). As I mention there, I'm pretty sure Combust+LB/pyro double dips mastery (and remember that the 15% to LB from the critical mass talent stacks additively with mastery for some reason). You are correct that haste doesn't change damage per tick calculation, and that pyro's calculations are similar to LB's. Molten fury is a good point - I haven't tested that and have no idea if combustion double-dips that or not (at a guess, I suspect it doesn't on LB/pyro, but does in the sense that increased crit sizes mean larger ignites).

It appears that the change to not allow DoTs to crit did not go live. It's unclear if this is a bug or intended.

This is the CombustionHelper ignite report at the end of Argaloth:

It wasn't that they wouldn't crit, it was that they wouldn't trigger ignite, which has gone live. (And on a related note, fire orb /does/ count for not-triggering-ignite, thankfully)

If simcraft is right (probably quite gear dependent though), then Crit is definitely your best bet for now, though it surely needs testing on live realms, I personally prefer crit, if only for bigger numbers and more pyros XD

Simulationcraft Results

Doesn't spread at non-elite targets and dummies.
Does spread at elite targets in heroics and in raids it's fully working.
Kinda strange.