Cataclysm Fire Mage Compendium - Page 49

Nathyiel · 12/21/11, 4:28 AM

Originally Posted by Asatôr

So with the T13 2p 500 Haste, 25 Haste from the enchant on sholders, 50 Haste from the enchant on gloves (instead of 65 Mastery) and 50 Haste from 2 25 Haste + 25 Int gems you will have 3186 Haste, which means you will get the 4th extratick for Combustion.

I would prefer more Crit, but i think this reforge will provide a higher overall DPS than aiming for most Crit.

We have two schools for optimizing the fire spec: more haste or more crit.

Actually, 4T13 provides us with a combustion around each 70s. For a 450s fight:

more haste and lower crit means that combustion will have 1 more ticks for a total of 6, but a lower number of pyro/ignite and more combustion without pyro or big ignite.
more crit but lower haste means more pyro and ignite but it's 6 ticks lower on combustion.

All in all, I think that is a matter of game play. Longer Combustion is good on static fight (ultraxion) but more pyro is likeable in movement fight (blackhorn).

PS: the fourth tick is 3027 for Goblin.

Turwok · 12/23/11, 6:30 AM

I have grown tired of making little calculations of haste soft caps for me and some friends, so I made these little charts, hope it serves someone:

Shendow · 12/23/11, 6:38 AM

Hi everyone,

using the following document https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FFTeVE#gid=19() I've created another one for those who want optimal haste rating depending not only on trinket proc and T13 2pc as Ilyawen did, but also on DW staff, since A LOT of mages do not have access to this item, and still want to optimize dps. It will allow mages to reforge haste depending on what they have access to.

Document can be found here :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...09FTGJpY001WEE

First four tableaus account for no T13 2pc bonus, since I wanted to be able to also see what haste rating would be optimal in case of bad luck in Stolen time proc, but trinket/staff proc.

The other four are for 10 stacks of Stolen Time.

DI is not shown, since most of the time it will be placed on other classes.

Please give feedback/analysis/criticism, point out mistakes, and feel free to download and improve this document.

Edit : Well it looks like someone had the same idea, but my document displays DW staff.

Spacedonkey · 12/24/11, 2:01 PM

Originally Posted by rh8452

Once you have [Insignia of the Corrupted Mind] I can't see how starting a boss by spamming AB could possibly be considered viable, since you'll be gaining multiple extra combustion ticks if you use it with said trinket procced anyway.

The only way spamming AB could be a DPS increase is if you guaranteed know the exact fight length before pulling (ie. you know you are going to hit enrage) and are 100% assured that doing so would give you an entire extra combustion by shaving the ~40 seconds off the cooldown of your second. And consider, that fire isn't just spamming fireball/HS pyro, you are also keeping LB up and casting flame orb which require globals. Foregoing LB, HS pyro, critical mass debuff (if someone else isn't putting it up), flame orb, ignite and potentially the extra combustion ticks of damage (should the trinket proc early) in order to spam AB for one extra combustion during the fight probably won't be worth it. You also, as previously mentioned, don't know if you'll get that extra combustion or not due to RNG, it may come off cooldown but if you don't get enough crits to have a decent ignite, it's meaningless since you can't use it.

Insignia generally procs within the first 10 seconds of every pull I've done with it equipped on my mage as well.

AB should never ever be used unless you somehow need a guaranteed refresh of your stolen time stack as it's about to fall off, for instance in a Hagara fight where the lightning phase lasted 25-27 seconds after the add died where you couldn't DPS anything.

Unequip and equip the trinket before the fight to trigger the 30s ICD? That way you have 20+ seconds of AB spamming before switching to normal Combustion fishing and procing the trinket.

rh8452 · 12/24/11, 3:12 PM

But then you've just burned away upwards of 40% of your mana and are guaranteeing you will have to drop ~5 seconds of DPS later in the fight to evocate, further hindering any benefit. I haven't had to evocate on any fights in current content other than Spine and Madness (and Yor'sahj for obvious reasons), outside using it for the heal from the glyph.

I haven't seen any top mage parses on Ultraxion or other bosses where fire mages were opening with AB spam.

Tavjon · 12/25/11, 12:53 PM

Been having a little trouble lately and pulling lower DPS than expected if anyone can take a look at the gear and give any suggestions I'd be most appreciative

Tavjon @ Illidan - Game - World of Warcraft

Also in what fights would it be better to go Arcane for rather than Fire.

Mitnite · 12/25/11, 2:06 PM

someone noticed, that if you try in firespecc casting frostbolt give you a 100% chance of a stack of t13 2er boni?

valarauca · 12/27/11, 2:05 PM

Doing some sim's today were showing that if you hit the 1505 break point (to reach 2005 with the 2 set bonus). And then start reforging haste to crit/mastery will be a dps loss. Can anyone confirm these findings?

charred · 12/27/11, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by valarauca

Doing some sim's today were showing that if you hit the 1505 break point (to reach 2005 with the 2 set bonus). And then start reforging haste to crit/mastery will be a dps loss. Can anyone confirm these findings?

You shouldnt ever reforge to mastery, that's prolly what is giving you the dps loss.
I had a pretty significant increase after attaining 2p bonus n reforging haste into crit

MaurM · 12/28/11, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by charred

You shouldnt ever reforge to mastery, that's prolly what is giving you the dps loss.
I had a pretty significant increase after attaining 2p bonus n reforging haste into crit

Still has anyone tried to reforge massively on crit + mastery ? IMO, getting many dots on boss ( LB+Comb+ignite + Pyro dot ) and all being affected by mastery, should result in higher dps. Am I missing smth ?

Eylirria · 12/28/11, 1:18 PM

I'm having a hard time theorycrafting myself out of this hole:

Long story short, 2 piece T13 takes forever to stack it seems. It takes a non-trivial amount of time to get to 10 stacks at the start of a boss fight, at which point, the potion is fading/has faded already, and the power torrent is long gone. Do I want to just go with very first combustion of the fight, make sure I pop it with everything behind it from the start, or do I want to delay it, make it less powerful, but come back up more often?

To be perfectly honest, it's looking like it's NOT worth it to hold off until 10 stacks to begin with, because combustion starts the fight off the CD, so, I'm just 'losing' time by not popping it asap with everything. Say it takes me on average 30 seconds to get it to 10 stacks at the beginning of the fight, plus some time to get a good RNG for the ignite that means that the first combustion is still taking at the very LEAST 100 seconds to come back up from the fight start, without taking into account the ignite RNG buildup. (120 base-50setbonus+stacktime+ignitebuilduptime; which could be close to 120 seconds anyway!)

If I were to do it right away with everything up, I will get the combustion the 2nd time ~roughly about where I would anyway, but it would be a more powerful combustion to begin with.

My gut from just fundamental theorycrafting tells me I should NOT hold for 10 stacks, but have we ever mathematically gotten to a consensus on this matter?

charred · 12/28/11, 7:49 PM

Originally Posted by MaurM

Still has anyone tried to reforge massively on crit + mastery ? IMO, getting many dots on boss ( LB+Comb+ignite + Pyro dot ) and all being affected by mastery, should result in higher dps. Am I missing smth ?

SimC it? I doubt it works out though.

And to the guy above me, that depends of the entire duration of the fight.
A fight is barely ever going to be exactly X-combustions long, there is always some "dead"-time to play with.
You might also have to wait for your trinkets to stack (will for example).

charred · 12/28/11, 8:06 PM

Originally Posted by Tavjon

Been having a little trouble lately and pulling lower DPS than expected if anyone can take a look at the gear and give any suggestions I'd be most appreciative

Tavjon @ Illidan - Game - World of Warcraft

Also in what fights would it be better to go Arcane for rather than Fire.

> DMC:V is better than foul gift (incase you have it)
> Reforging doesnt look optimal at first glance
> Some wrong enchants, greater mastery on gloves & lavawalker

~arcane for spine, possibly hagara10. Fire for anything else.

How much dps you pulling in that gear anyhow? If id go with my gut it'd give a simc result of aprox ~34k (on iphone, cant check)?
Depending on your raidsetup, how much are you doing?

rh8452 · 12/29/11, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Eylirria

2pc t13 stuff

My gut from just fundamental theorycrafting tells me I should NOT hold for 10 stacks, but have we ever mathematically gotten to a consensus on this matter?

I just combust with the first really good ignite I get while insignia is procced.

Sure I lose a tick of combustion, but I'd rather have a significantly better combustion with one less tick (and the bonus tick(s) from insignia anyway) than wait.

On a lot of fights, you're unlikely to combust a second time till insignia has procced again anyway. It may come off cooldown beforehand if you got lucky with stolen time stacks, but the RNG of getting an ignite worth using it on can often push it into your next insignia proc.

Part of this is why I swapped back to 4pc T12 for Ultraxion progression as well - I know in advance I can only get 3 combustions the whole fight. We lust a few seconds in and mages soak the first HoT. Combustion 1 is generally huge with insignia / lust + good ignite from old 4pc pyro procs. Knowing I can only combust 2 more times the whole fight, I can sit and wait for trinket or power torrent/lightweave procs to use the second and third, which is sub-35% somewhere, I just wait for insignia to proc and then immediately pot and go for a good ignite to use it. Knowing the fight length makes the decision making process easier.

As goofy as it sounds, on variable length fights using 4pc T13 means you shouldn't waste much time thinking about minmaxing combustion. It comes off cooldown, and should be used as soon as you get a good ignite regardless of trinket procs or whatever, because gambling on a better ignite or waiting for things to proc so you get extra ticks is going to cost you DPS in many situations.

In addition, spam reforging into haste to gain additional ticks hasn't been working out too well for our mage who tried it (based on what rawr told him to do). It simply becomes too hard to get enough crits to combust on when you go too far out of crit rating into haste.

Top WoL parses are generally useless to look at since they're of mages with DI, tricks, PI FM etc, getting unbelievable RNG like 75% fireball crit on whatever boss. Any of us can randomly get incredible crit rates on a kill and get a top 20 parse even with mediocre play. I believe it's more likely to get such incredible crit rates and RNG if you're crit reforged and aren't trying to micromanage stolen time stacks early in, however.

hordemage · 12/29/11, 5:22 PM

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