Frost Mage Discussion [Cataclysm] - Page 4

Cryosa · 01/11/11, 8:03 PM

I just calculated the following using the latest 'Basic' SimC results from Lhivera:

Deep Freeze base damage change: average DPE lost = (3261-2608)/2 = 326.5. In the total fight this means (326.5*10.8)/300s = 11.75 dps loss.
Ice Lance increase: 3647*1.15 = 4194 dps = 547 dps increase
Frostbolt increase: 7255*1.15 = 8343 dps = 1088 dps increase
Mastery change: affecting DF, IL, FFB and ignite: 215/235 (in this sim mastery is 14) = 0.9149
DF: 3794*0.787 (dps*crit%) = 2986 dps from crits. 2986*0.9149 = 2732 dps. 2986-2732 = 254 dps loss.
IL: 4194*0.927 = 3888. 3888*0.9149 = 3557. 3888-3557 = 331 dps loss.
FFB: 2349*0.777 = 1825. 1825*0.9149 = 1670. 1825-1670 = 155
Ignite: 957*0.9149 = 876. 957-876 = 81 dps loss.
Sum: 547+1088-12-254-331-155-81 = 802 dps increase.

I hope this rather simple math is correct and if it is, my worries were needless.
Potential changes in glyphs and/or gear and their influence on these results should still be subject of discussion.

Lhivera · 01/11/11, 9:14 PM

Originally Posted by Naqaj

If I read this correctly you reduced DF total damage by 20%. The patchnote reads reduced base damage.

Remember that what MMO posts is not patch notes, and when it mentions base damage changes, it is almost always incorrect. Nearly every time, if not actually every time, that MMO-Champion has mentioned a "base damage" change since mid-Cataclysm beta, that change has also been accompanied by a matching coefficient change.

Also bear in mind that these changes are likely to skew ratings values somewhat. Gear adjustments may affect the final DPS gain or loss.

durianboss · 01/13/11, 3:22 AM

I am sure this has been mention before soft crit is 33.4%.
However it seems that noone take the 2% crit resistance that all boss have in to consideration.
Therefore the soft crit should be 34% instead of 33.4%

Pent · 01/13/11, 6:39 AM

Originally Posted by Cryosa

I just calculated the following using the latest 'Basic' SimC results from Lhivera:

Deep Freeze base damage change: average DPE lost = (3261-2608)/2 = 326.5. In the total fight this means (326.5*10.8)/300s = 11.75 dps loss.
Ice Lance increase: 3647*1.15 = 4194 dps = 547 dps increase
Frostbolt increase: 7255*1.15 = 8343 dps = 1088 dps increase
Mastery change: affecting DF, IL, FFB and ignite: 215/235 (in this sim mastery is 14) = 0.9149
DF: 3794*0.787 (dps*crit%) = 2986 dps from crits. 2986*0.9149 = 2732 dps. 2986-2732 = 254 dps loss.
IL: 4194*0.927 = 3888. 3888*0.9149 = 3557. 3888-3557 = 331 dps loss.
FFB: 2349*0.777 = 1825. 1825*0.9149 = 1670. 1825-1670 = 155
Ignite: 957*0.9149 = 876. 957-876 = 81 dps loss.
Sum: 547+1088-12-254-331-155-81 = 802 dps increase.

I hope this rather simple math is correct and if it is, my worries were needless.
Potential changes in glyphs and/or gear and their influence on these results should still be subject of discussion.

I might be wrong here but... isn't all damage against frozen targets reduced by 15%? This would mean that with 15% increased Ice Lance from FoF, IL damage doesn't change at all, yet you added it in the calculation there, how come?

Cabrian · 01/17/11, 10:43 AM

So, with the soft crit cap for Frost being 34% (taking crit suppression into account), does that means that we should aim for a 18% crit rating from gear/Piercing Ice if deciding to using glyphed Molten Armor?

18% +
1% from Kings/GotW, Flask of the Draconic Mind, Int food +
5% Elemental Oath (or similar) +
5% Critical Mass (or similar) +
5% Glyphed Molten Armor

Or have I made some multiplicative/additive maths mistake?

Zersto · 01/17/11, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cabrian

So, with the soft crit cap for Frost being 34% (taking crit suppression into account), does that means that we should aim for a 18% crit rating from gear/Piercing Ice if deciding to using glyphed Molten Armor?

18% +
1% from Kings/GotW, Flask of the Draconic Mind, Int food +
5% Elemental Oath (or similar) +
5% Critical Mass (or similar) +
5% Glyphed Molten Armor

Or have I made some multiplicative/additive maths mistake?

Shatter takes the crit rate on your character pane and multiplies that. Critical Mass is a debuff on the mob, it won't be multiplied by Shatter.

Eerion · 01/18/11, 2:24 AM

So that means that soft crit cap is 21,67% (5% from critical mass removed from total. Then tripled elemental oath and glyphed molten armor. That in total gives 35%. So 65%/3 = 21,67% crit rating. This include all food, flask and BoK/MotW buffs, so printed crit will be slighty lower).
Still how does more advanced calculations show this change? Somehow (especially doe to DF nerf) I can't shake off thought that frost PvE still got nerfed

Anubisblack · 01/18/11, 4:26 AM

Originally Posted by Zersto

Shatter takes the crit rate on your character pane and multiplies that. Critical Mass is a debuff on the mob, it won't be multiplied by Shatter.

Why wouldn't Critical Mass be multiplied by Shatter? Can someone please confirm that?

Shatter takes your critical strike chance on the current target and tripples it, so it is logical the 5% increased critical strike chance on the target will be also used in the calculation. Otherwise we won't be looking for the 33.34% cap, but the 36.67% cap (95%/3= 31.67%). Also, you can see on the Rawr stats tab that your critical strike chance is 5% higher with Critical Mass ticked and the optimizer works around 33.34% cap.

farmmann · 01/24/11, 3:05 PM

Hi
Im having issues with my ffo. i target and cast it at the beginning of encounters and recast it as the cd is available however, it seems like half the time it just fizzles out and does nothing. im not hit caped but can hit heroic targets(up to lvl 87) 100% is this a resistance issue from the targets? or is there a bug reported ive missed ? thanks

Hibbo · 01/24/11, 3:21 PM

Wait with casting your Frostfire Orb till the mob/boss is not moving anymore.

Gilthanor · 01/24/11, 9:04 PM

Originally Posted by farmmann

Hi
Im having issues with my ffo. i target and cast it at the beginning of encounters and recast it as the cd is available however, it seems like half the time it just fizzles out and does nothing. im not hit caped but can hit heroic targets(up to lvl 87) 100% is this a resistance issue from the targets? or is there a bug reported ive missed ? thanks

While casting it at a non-moving boss like the previous poster said is helpful, the problem is that the orb spells have pathing issues. If there's anything that prevents the terrain from being perfectly smooth (any dips or ridges on the floor) the orb can get stuck, causing it to despawn. This happens to me pretty often, but the small ridge in the floor of Maloriak's room is the best example that comes readily to mind. I find myself making sure that I move up onto his little platform before I cast Flame Orb so it doesn't get "stuck" and despawn.

elusivedotone · 01/25/11, 2:59 AM

Originally Posted by Anubisblack

Why wouldn't Critical Mass be multiplied by Shatter? Can someone please confirm that?

Shatter takes your critical strike chance on the current target and tripples it, so it is logical the 5% increased critical strike chance on the target will be also used in the calculation. Otherwise we won't be looking for the 33.34% cap, but the 36.67% cap (95%/3= 31.67%). Also, you can see on the Rawr stats tab that your critical strike chance is 5% higher with Critical Mass ticked and the optimizer works around 33.34% cap.

Im also wondering about this if anyone can confirm or shed light on this.

iwog · 01/25/11, 4:39 AM

Originally Posted by Gilthanor

While casting it at a non-moving boss like the previous poster said is helpful, the problem is that the orb spells have pathing issues. If there's anything that prevents the terrain from being perfectly smooth (any dips or ridges on the floor) the orb can get stuck, causing it to despawn. This happens to me pretty often, but the small ridge in the floor of Maloriak's room is the best example that comes readily to mind. I find myself making sure that I move up onto his little platform before I cast Flame Orb so it doesn't get "stuck" and despawn.

There doesn't even have to be any visible dips or ridges, I've found that during Slabhide in Stonecore that unless you're right on top of the boss your flame orb will get stuck and de-spawn and you mirror images will all stack directly on top of each other. Yes this is during the first phase before he casts any rock pillars, and yes it might only be on a dungeon boss but it highlights a key flaw with the flame orb that could arise. If any bosses are implemented in future raids that have temporary LOS mechanics that appear then our flame orb may turn out to be completely useless during these fights.

Anubisblack · 01/25/11, 5:41 AM

Originally Posted by elusivedotone

Im also wondering about this if anyone can confirm or shed light on this.

I meant that statement to be more categorical. If anyone can confirm that Critical Mass no longer gets multiplied by Shatter it would be groundbreaking. It has always been and is included in Shatter.

Floppy · 02/09/11, 7:00 PM

What does the sims say about using BrainFreeze proc with Fingers of Frost in 4.0.6? Is there still a point in saving 1 Fingers of Frost charge for possible BrainFreeze procs, or would one be better off going out of one's way to Ice Lance first and use the BrainFreeze only once the Fingers of Frost charges are spent?