Frost Mage Discussion [Cataclysm] - Page 9

Kyrilon · 07/07/11, 1:48 PM

Originally Posted by Light4

Do you mean he does not become invisible at all or becomes invisible, but continues casting so to reengage again? If it is the latter, this has happened pre-4.2 as well, you can add /petpassive into your invisible-macro, which will fix this behaviour. I used that macro before and after 4.2 and did not notice any difference, but I haven't raided as Frost lately, since I found it easier to get 45k+ hits on Shannox's add with arcane spec.

I'll have to check tonight. I've got him set on Assist, so I'll try it with both that and Defensive stance and see if that makes any difference.

Agree on Arcane being a better choice for breaking Face Rage, especially with the CD on DF being 30 seconds and Face Rage being called every 26-27 seconds. However, I tried Arcane and almost fell asleep, and we've already got one Arcane mage in our raids, so I'm all about diversifying.

Blueobelisk · 07/08/11, 12:17 AM

Speaking of tier 12 four piece bonus, it was concluded in the fire Mage thread that the hot steak increase went up by 30% (10% to 40%). I haven't seen anyone mention it, but does anyone know how much more brain freeze proc is increased? Is it assumed to be 30% as well? (Making the proc chance go from 15% to 45%)

Originally Posted by nathyiel

without 4T12 on a 300s fight

		BF 15%	FoF 20%	%dps
Freeze	12		24
FFO-tick	90	13	18	3%
DF	11			12%
FB	155	23	31	40%
FFB	36		7	19%
IL	44			19%
Ignite-tick	72			7%
		36	80

with 4T12 on a 300s fight

		BF 30%	FoF 20%	%dps
Freeze	12		24
FFO-tick	90	27	18	3%
DF	11			10%
FB	155	46	31	35%
FFB	73		14	33%
IL	14			5%
Ignite-tick	146			13%
		73	87

I see this information but it leaves me with some questions. When running the numbers, without the tier 12 4 piece set it comes up to be around a 16.2% proc chance for Brain Freeze, which is pretty close to the 15% estimated by the 3 point talent. That is to say, 36 FFBs out of 222 hits (where hits include Pets Freeze, DF, FB, and IL).

When I check the proc chance with the tier 12 4 piece set, it comes up to be around a 38% proc chance; 73 FFBs / 192 "Frost" hits (the same ones mentioned before). Yet you put the header as 30% FFB proc.

Did I mess up the math or is that inaccurate? 8% is a large difference between estimated and actual proc, especially over such a large set of hits.

Nathyiel · 07/08/11, 5:57 AM

This math was made very early on the PTR. I don't have T12 actually, so I can't confirm it.

Actually, I don't know how Bf and 4t12 interact. We can believe it to be additive (15%+15%=30%) or not (1.15*1.15=32.25%). The difference is lower than RNG.

Zrow · 07/09/11, 1:55 AM

Saw your calculations of racials Nathyiel, But what about the troll 5% damage. I checked up that beth'tilac is a beast. They've made alot of the encounters to elementals, even Shannoxs dogs are elementals *.* .

Im not sure about Majordomo Staghelms different forms if he becomes a beast or just still counts as humanoid.

Nathyiel · 07/11/11, 3:38 AM

My test is made with SimC on the standard target. With this, we are able to compare with a majority of fight.

Versus a beast, it's obvious that Troll will be ahead, by far. But a BiS race choice can't be made for only One fight.

If you have look closely to my result, you will have see that all race are between 1% dps on the very theoretical Patchwerk fight and have a maximum of ~0.9% on the more realist Helterskelter fight.

Alazin · 08/24/11, 10:54 AM

I've just started testing the change of rotation posted during the PTR phase of this tier earlier, but from what I'm seeing I think its going to be a very large difference in dps to not double FFO. There are quite a lot of wasted brain freezes with the 4 piece. Currently the rotation im testing is as follows:

FBolt/Pet attack + Trinket macro
Pet Freeze
Deep Freeze
FFO
Icy Veins
Mirror Image
Cold Snap
Deep Freeze
FBolt until FFO ends then 2nd FFO.

ZumoO · 09/13/11, 8:46 AM

I wrote a small app for those wanting to calculate their Shatter cap :
http://opendevelop.fr/shatter/Shatter.html

Kyrilon · 11/09/11, 11:45 AM

Man, this thread gets so little love...

Just picked up 4pcT12 last night, and am wondering what others' experience and best practice with it is. Are you dumping BF as soon as it pops, or are you maintaining a "largely the same" rotation with just a larger percentage of damage coming from BF w/FoF?

I get the sense that it will feel more like the Staghelm opening salvo and I'll be pushed from 45-50% Frostbolt damage down to 35-40%, with BF picking up most of that slack.

Thoughts?

Light4 · 11/09/11, 12:19 PM

I play frost in T12H (3/7) content and I am quite fond of it, although the numbers are a little bit smaller than for arcane. However, we are no hardcore raid and I still do competitive damage and find it much more fun to play, but your mileage may vary. At least mobility is a little bit better for frost, so the difference in dps to arcane is probably smaller than what SimC calculates for Patchwork fights.
At least for my gear I checked SimC and using BF immediately is more dps than keeping it for FoF.
Also I rawr'ed DF/FFB/MA and DF/FFB/FrB glyph setups and the former is ahead by about 200dps for respectively optimized gearsets. Please keep in mind that when using SimC with frost that it is indeed using FrB as filler. The standard action list with DF/FFB/MA still has FFB as filler, which is a loss of about 2k dps.

Nathyiel · 11/10/11, 5:00 AM

I just see your issue on SimC and you have made a mistake. You used the Frostfire's profile instead of the Frost one.

For the glyph case with T12, it's a difficult choice:

MA's glyph is better on single target fight with +2% crit for all spell but -3% for FB.
FB's glyph is good on a boss +2 add type fight because of Piercing Chill.

4.3 will be released in a few weeks now (PTR built marked as releases), we have to see how the 4pcT13 work and what will be it's influence (glyph, rotation, etc). On the last built, Iv have it's cooldown reduced by 15s for each stack of Stolen Time. It's means that it's CD will be reduce to 0 when we obtain the 10th stacks. The game play will change to 2 phases: stacking buff (for 17s to 34s) and a burst phase. With this much haste, we will burn a lot of mana so we will have to see if we can continue with Molten Armor + Evocation or if we will have to switch from Molten Armor to Mage Armor..

edit> For those who think that IV will bring us under GCD, we will have to reforge Haste to cap it at 25% raid buffed (50%/20% = 25%). So we will have to obtain 16.71% (2139.83) haste from gear so I don't see a problem here.

Nathyiel · 11/28/11, 9:53 AM

Even with a very poor DPS, we could think about stat weight.

With the T13 stuff, we can soft capping both Haste and Crit.

Crit < 900 (837 with T13H)
Haste = 2140 (1993 for goblin)

Further Haste will bring all instant under GCD with Icy Veins.

fateswarm · 01/09/12, 1:02 PM

I'd like to point out something interesting about this spec since I assume most people haven't seen it in raiding lately: By running a LFR for fun without changing from frost spec PvP, I noticed something peculiarly advantageous in Hagara: The few seconds it gives with x 2 damage in the beginning of a phase, are especially suited for frost since its medium burst does not need any build up. Arcane is theoretically higher burst in PvE, however it needs to build up 4 stacks (of AB) to be optimal. Frost can go immediately to a Deep Freeze and perhaps a few Ice Lances or Frostfires.

Now, I do not know if that would give it an advantage in overall, but it might be worth a look for further scrutiny.