Elitist Jerks Cataclysm: Situational Tips and Tricks

 08/03/11, 1:32 PM #166 Tyrian Bald Bull     Tyrian Human Mage   Frostmourne The aforementioned Smouldering Devastation trick is a tremendous help to healers on Heroic. First we should mention that Iceblock does not prevent death from Smouldering Devastation itself, the damage goes through it. You must use Invisibility. I haven't tried Cauterize/Fire myself, can someone else can confirm that? Several classes have ways to avoid dying to Smouldering Devastation, but options become more limited when the other requirement is taken into account: Needing to stay alive by yourself for ~10-15 seconds afterwards, until the MT comes back up.Staying up solo in this time period is made easier by: - Being an engineer (nitro boosts to sprint around the web away from your Mirror Images) - Sending up other pet classes with the Mage. Smouldering Devastation does not kill pets, so Beth'tilac will waste melee swings killing them afterwards instead. (For the First smouldering Devastation cycle, it's common for guilds to send up 2 players. If these are a Mage + Warlock, for example, Beth'tilac will need to kill 3 Mirror Images, Doomguard, and a Felpuppy - buying so much time you might not even need to Iceblock). - Consider picking up Improved Blink (and/or Glyph of Blink) to get as far from your Mirror Images in the fastest time possible. Last edited by Tyrian : 08/03/11 at 1:58 PM.
 08/03/11, 3:54 PM #167 Maje Don Flamenco   Maje Gnome Mage   Naxxramas (EU) The usual way to do Beth'tilac, is Invisibility the Devastation, once it hits it will make you visible again, continue DPSing when Beth' switches to you Mirror Images, you'll get the molten meteor on you before it hits IB and stay in it, by the time it fades your tank should be going up and you will be falling through the hole. These event's fit perfectly and there shouldn't be any issue with dying.
08/03/11, 10:46 PM   #168
Esarael
Von Kaiser

Blood Elf Mage

Azralon
Ok, I know this isn't a perfect model, but it's an attempt at trying to figure the optimal to change from Fireball spam to Pyroblast spam during the Alysrazor encounter.

 We shall use: a, for Average Fireball Base Damage per Cast k, for Fireball's Spell Power (SP) Coefficient s, for the caster's SP b, for Fireball's base cast time h, for the caster's haste percentage c, for the caster's fireball critical percentage (remember glyphs, tier bonuses, critical mass and etc) m, for the caster's mastery percentage $\delta$, for the caster's hit percentage If the caster does not have 4pc T11, let $\tau= max\left\{ \frac{b}{1+h} , 1 \right\}$be the caster's effective Fireball cast time, in seconds; otherwise take $\tau= max\left\{ \frac{0.9\cdot b}{1+h} , 1 \right\}$Also, let $\theta= max\left\{ 0.17 - \delta , 0\right\}$be the caster's chance to miss the boss. In T seconds, we should have $n= \left\lfloor\frac{T}{\tau}\right\rfloor$ fireballs. For a sufficiently large T we would have that: $\theta\cdot n$ fireballs miss and deal no damage. $(1 - \theta)\cdot n$ fireballs hit, of which:$(1 - \theta)\cdot (1 - c)\cdot n$ are normal hits, each for $a + k\cdot s$ damage $(1 - \theta)\cdot c\cdot n$ are critical hits, each for $2\cdot (a + k\cdot s)$ damage that cause an ignite for $0.8\cdot (1 + m)\cdot(a +k\cdot s)$ damage over 4 seconds.The DPS would then be the sum of those divided by the time T, which yields a DPS of: $\frac{(1 - \theta)}{\tau}\cdot (a + k\cdot s)\cdot (1 + 1.8\cdot c + 0.8\cdot m\cdot c)$ A very similar train of thought leads to the same formula for the expected Pyroblast DPS Spam, of course changing appropriate constants from Fireball constants to Pyroblast constants.

There are a few issues with this model:
• It assumes 100% uptime of the Pyroblast DoT during the Fireball spam near the change point;
• It does not model procs. In parcticular, Hot Streak procs are not modeled;
• It does not model Ignite munching/clipping.

And of course I would need to find out the actual value of the constants. >.>
Any (ideas of) improvements for the model would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Explaining the DoT part; if such an assumption is made, it means the DoT's contribution to DPS is the same regardless of which filler you're spamming. This does not seem to be a wild assumption since you'll be casting about 12 fireballs per DoT duration when you're about to change spells, and thus the chance of proccing a HS is reasonable. However, it does not also seem to be a perfectly realistic assumption either. I don't really know how to model this...

Last edited by Esarael : 08/04/11 at 1:03 AM.

 08/04/11, 3:55 AM #169 Maje Don Flamenco   Maje Gnome Mage   Naxxramas (EU) Latest version of Rawr models the dps of Pyroblast spam, and although it's not perfect (I'll expand later) it's good enough, it can tell you at which point (the latest*) you should switch to Pyroblast from Fireball. * Not perfect because it models Pyroblast spam as a constantly refreshing dot which is correct, however your way of knowing when to switch is comparing the DPS of Fireball to Pyroblast that comparison lies a little in favor of Fireball due to the fact that the Pyroblast dot uptime isn't taken into account (or rather, the lack thereof in the Fireball model) that difference is negligible enough however. How to: options (tab) > Effects (tab): Haste Multiplier, 1 represents the normal haste value, so for instance 25 stacks on Alysrazor is 200% haste or a value of 3 in the column.
08/05/11, 11:56 AM   #170
Knorro
Glass Joe

Gul'dan (EU)
 Originally Posted by Senovit For humans, you can trinket out of the fiery tornado and ice block before he finishes his cast of Searing Seed, preventing it from applying it to you. You could probably also ice block before fiery tornado is even cast, although you'll want to get into the stack point before the rest of the raid.
It even seems to be possible to "immune" the Searing Seed Debuff after the fiery tornado wears off if you use Ice Block fast enough (there are a few milliseconds between end of "cyclone" and debuff application). But it's tricky though... if you do it too slow and use iceblock AFTER you got the debuff it will blow up your raid.

It is also possible to do the same thing with "Hand of Protection". I found it out by accident when i got hand of protection in the transition to the Seed-Phase because i had aggro of a Spirit of Flame.

Not Mage-specific but it helps a lot to let a shadowpriest do the "concentration" job. He will maybe do less dmg than a Mage because he is more likely to loose concentration in Cat-Phases, but Vampiric Embrace is doing around 10k hps in Scorpion Phases + he can use Divine Hymn with full concentration to top the raid in the later Scorpion phases. You can also use the trick with hand of protection on him to help him keep full concentration in the Seed-Phase.

 08/05/11, 2:33 PM #171 fok Glass Joe   Фокита Human Mage   Черный Шрам (EU) Tip for Majordomo: You can trinket fiery tornado Last edited by fok : 08/07/11 at 12:33 PM.
08/08/11, 11:03 PM   #172
valarauca
Glass Joe

Worgen Mage

Lightninghoof
 Originally Posted by fok Tip for Majordomo: You can trinket fiery tornado
But if there is a single spirit of flame add up they will kill you.

08/23/11, 9:48 AM   #173
emesis
Glass Joe

Human Mage

Bonechewer
 Originally Posted by Gloinn12 If you are up on the web you can cheese Smoldering Devastation by popping invisibility right before the cast finishes. If you do it right you will take no damage and Beth won't do the aoe spit thing to the people below the web thus trivializing a main part of the encounter. Once Beth turns to attack you pop images or iceblock to stall until your tank comes back up. With 2 mages your raid should be able to negate this mechanic.
There's actually a blue post confirming that this is a "perfectly accetable" use of game mechanics. Any tips on how tight the timing is for Invisibility to immune the damage from Smouldering Devastation. Especially as regards to being talented in Prismatic Cloak? Is it sufficient to simply Invisible when the cast completes, or is the timing related to the mysterious damage immune window of turning Invisible?

 08/23/11, 9:56 AM #174 Lileith Piston Honda   Sekira Night Elf Mage   Illidan (EU) Rhyolith / Rhyolith Hm The classical invisibility damage avoidance effect can also be very usefull for the second phase of Hard Mode Rhyolith to avoid stomp damage. That would be also a good training spot for those who are also working on devastation dodging on Bethilac. It's actually much easier to perform on Rhyolith due to a faster cast time. With Iceblock up too you can avoid both stomps (or two out of three depending on your raid dps).
08/23/11, 2:35 PM   #175
Esarael
Von Kaiser

Blood Elf Mage

Azralon
 Originally Posted by emesis There's actually a blue post confirming that this is a "perfectly accetable" use of game mechanics. Any tips on how tight the timing is for Invisibility to immune the damage from Smouldering Devastation. Especially as regards to being talented in Prismatic Cloak? Is it sufficient to simply Invisible when the cast completes, or is the timing related to the mysterious damage immune window of turning Invisible?
I've done it thrice using Invisibility just before the cast completes, ie, the remaining cast time is less than 1 second. Never really failed.

Of course, I had 3/3 Prismatic Cloak; I can't assure but I assume that, like most damaging events, Ember Flare will negate Invisibility if it occurs during fade time.

08/27/11, 8:37 AM   #176
Pasture
Don Flamenco

Blood Elf Mage

Steamwheedle Cartel (EU)
 Originally Posted by Tyrian Be careful using the Human Racial, however. If you racial out of the Fiery Tornado (and your tank doesn't) - any living Spirits of the Flame will turn and attack you. (Probably killing you, let alone causing a loss of Concentration). Whether a Spirit is still living will vary based on Raid Comp, how far Fandral jumped for the last Leaping Flames, and how quickly you stacked up.
It's worth noting that if you have Paladins in the raid they can BoP select targets before the stun applies. It lasts long enough to be applied before and still prevent the application of seeds. Probably wasted on a mage who can iceblock out of it after, however, and better used on a class who cannot avoid taking the seed damage.

 09/01/11, 1:05 PM #177 pouche Glass Joe   pouche Human Mage   Terenas When doing traps on Rag, I'd like to be able to cancelaura Slow Fall at times (if i am cast into the air). It seems, however, that the traditional /cancelaura Slow Fall - /cast Slow Fall (as used for IB and invis) causes a hiccup where the Slow Fall is simply recast. Does anyone have a work-around that remains a single button? Thank you for the time.
09/01/11, 4:40 PM   #178
Cryosa
Glass Joe

Blood Elf Mage

Vek'nilash (EU)
 Originally Posted by pouche Does anyone have a work-around that remains a single button?
Blink immediately after the explosion and you will not be thrown into the air.

 09/01/11, 5:15 PM #179 • Intermission Spiral out, keep going     Interbolt Undead Mage   Frostmourne And if you're double trapping on heroic mode, blink the first one then Slowfall at the last second on the second.
 09/03/11, 3:16 PM #180 talchas Von Kaiser   talchas Troll Mage   Scarlet Crusade I'm pretty sure that cancelaura still works, although I'm not certain. It was changed to no longer be doable from arbitrary addons to kill WiseEclipse. That macro probably wouldn't do what you wanted though anyway - it will cancel slowfall and then immediately recast it (or if you're in a gcd, queue the cast for when the gcd ends). That style of macro works for invis and IB because they have long cooldowns so you can't recast it when you cancel.

 Elitist Jerks Cataclysm: Situational Tips and Tricks