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Old 02/20/11, 9:08 AM   #16
Roywyn
Bald Bull
 
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Roywyn
Gnome Mage
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Kavan View Post
I haven't posted any updates on optimal arcane cycles in some time, so this hotfix is a good opportunity to do so. This is with roughly 359 gear with 4T11, 25 man raid buffs (the dps numbers don't include mastery multiplier).
Seeing that there are repeated questions as to how the Arcane Decision Table is to be read, might I add adjustments to make it easier to see/imagine how the table is played for those who know what the numbers mean?
Could you consistently call 0 = Arcane Blast, 1 = Arcane Missiles, 2 = Arcane Barrage (or if that doesn't work due to triggers for AM, use 0 = ABla, 1 = ABar, 2 = AM)? That makes reading the table easier when I don't have to look whether 1 is AM or ABar in the current column. Also, could you add spaces after every 5 entries? "00010 00010 010" is much easier to trace than "0001000010010" when looking up when AM (or is it ABar in that column?) is to be cast. Starting with row 1 may also be more familiar than row 0, but I'm not a good person to judge that.

Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t106009-...2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

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Old 02/23/11, 11:31 PM   #17
Daganie
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Thorium Brotherhood
How viable is the four set bonus on pvp gear for raiding as arcane? After multiple optimizations using rawr time and again it tells me that not only will my pvp gear output more dps, but it will out perform it by a long stretch. Just curious if anyone else has seen this. The four set bonus provides an extra 160 in and a huge 5% damage bonus to arcane blast, which ends up being roughly 80-85% of my overall damage.

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Old 02/24/11, 5:05 PM   #18
druover
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Medivh
While I agree the 2pc T11 PVE bonus is horrible, I do not think the PVP bonuses are worth the worthless resilience. I'm giving rough estimate numbers here, but you'd be giving up about 730 points in secondary stats for the resilience (for 359 tier gear...more for 372. Compare that to 160 int. I think the 4pcT11 PVE bonus of 10% reduced AB cast time would also be more valuable than the 5% damage increase, although they might be closer than they appear. In theory, 10% reduced cast time should be 10% increased damage, however, with the mage dynamics, this would not be the case. This reduced cast time compared to a static mp5 (would be the same for either scenario) would lead to shorter burn phase and also potentially having to do ABx3 AM instead of ABx4 AM sometimes (presumably 10% of the time) during the conserve phase.

I usually rely on RAWR to calculate these exact numbers. I'm suprised with the results you're getting though. I would think the PVE stats/bonus would outweigh the PVP.

Now PVP vs. 346 blues, then go with the PVP!

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Old 02/28/11, 1:27 PM   #19
druover
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Medivh
OK, so this question is going to be laughed at, but there hasn't been much discussion on here recently, so I thought I'd throw it out:

How long are people typically holding on to their 4pT10 (264's) bonus? I know the saying goes cata greens are better than any wotlk gear, but I dont think this is the case for arcane. I tried on dummies using my 4pcT10 gear and then equipping about an average of blue 325 gear instead, and I was doing more damage with the 4pcT10. That 18% mirror image buff during the burn phase is just HUGE. Part of this too is I use an on use sp trinket, so that magnifies the burn phase even more.

I'm assuming in heroics and especially in raids this will definitely go away as you'll need all the extra stats for extra hit, but is there anyone else out there finding their dps is much better for the level 85 regular instances still using the 4pT10??? Or am I the only one this dumb lol.

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Old 02/28/11, 2:41 PM   #20
Kavan
Bald Bull
 
Gnome Mage
 
Kilrogg
It will depend a lot on what other gear you acquired while leveling. I haven't found 4T10 particularly strong, but I used 2T10 about one week into raiding until I got better pieces. Kind of related to the previous question, I also used 2 piece PVP set for quite some time. If you have the Vicious pieces those are item level 365 and the higher item level more than makes up for resilience until you have 4T11. In the end it all depends on what you have available, I would use whatever is best in your case, regardless of if it looks strange.

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Old 03/06/11, 12:11 PM   #21
Doroteasenjk
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Draenor
I believe the calculation for DMC: Volcano goes something like:

1600 increase in spell power
* 1.03 Arcane Tactics
* 0.97 SP coefficient for Arcane Blast (likely out of date)
* 1.16 Mastery after ~22% loss in intellect (for my level of mastery)

=1854 increased spell damage for the period of the proc

With 2.6% increased crit, and even figuring in some factors that I have more than likely forgotten, I cannot believe there exists a world where DMC: Volcano is a DPS loss.

The key point about the mastery is this:

( (full_mana / (full_mana + proc x 15)) x mastery) + 1

is the multiplier. (full_mana is 100% mana, proc is 1600 in this case, mastery is your mastery bonus).

Since my model is incomplete, please point out any substantive errors.

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Old 03/06/11, 2:21 PM   #22
Noshei
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Uldaman
It seems to me that a lot of people are misunderstanding the mastery for Arcane. If you look closer at the wording of the mastery you will see that it is based upon unspent mana. Based on the wording it appears to be based on the actual amount actual mana unspent and not the percentage of unspent mana.

Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

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Old 03/06/11, 5:30 PM   #23
Finamenon
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Uldaman
I don't think that makes much of a difference, as the mastery bonus gives a set percentage increase in damage. If you had 100k mana or 200k mana, you're still getting the same percentage of extra damage.

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Old 03/06/11, 11:09 PM   #24
Naryo
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Frostwolf (EU)
Originally Posted by Doroteasenjk View Post
I believe the calculation for DMC: Volcano goes something like:

1600 increase in spell power
* 1.03 Arcane Tactics
* 0.97 SP coefficient for Arcane Blast (likely out of date)
* 1.16 Mastery after ~22% loss in intellect (for my level of mastery)

=1854 increased spell damage for the period of the proc

With 2.6% increased crit, and even figuring in some factors that I have more than likely forgotten, I cannot believe there exists a world where DMC: Volcano is a DPS loss.

The key point about the mastery is this:

( (full_mana / (full_mana + proc x 15)) x mastery) + 1
You forgot to take the Int modifier into account:
Lets take a closer look to the Mana aspect of the Trinket (Procc * 1.1025x modifier= 1764 int ):

E1: Lets say you have 100k Mana, 22% Damage Bonus due to Mastery
((100.000/126460) * 0,22) +1 =1.174

E2: With 50k Mana, same Mastery
((50.000/76.460)*0.22)+1 =1.144

E3: With 500k Mana, same Mastery (for Finamenon)
((500.000/526.460)*0.22)+1 =1.209

So we can conclude that as your max Mana nears infinity, the damage loss due to Mana loss in % nears 0. The realistic damage bonus is between 1.144-1.15 %.

I am not sure about your damage calculations though:
+1600 Int (Intellect has a 1.1025x modifier) =>1764 Int
*1.174% increased damage after the loss in intellect as in example 1
*(0.02*Procc Mana) (Improved Mana Gem)=529.2

With Procc + Mana Gem:
1.3*1.174*((Procc_SP + 0.02*26460) *0.97)=3394.89 increased damage on AB

Last edited by Naryo : 03/07/11 at 8:59 AM.

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Old 03/10/11, 2:56 AM   #25
Quantuvis
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Mage
 
Kazzak (EU)
The latest PTR push gives arcane some love:

Arcane Blast damage has been increased by 13%. In addition, the stacking effect of Arcane Blast now increases the damage done by Arcane Explosion, and Arcane Explosion does not consume that effect.
Arcane Explosion damage has been increased by 13%.
Arcane Missiles damage has been increased by 13%.
Arcane Barrage damage has been increased by 13%.

Blizzard damage has been increased by 70%.

Combustion no longer has a global cooldown.
The Blizzard damage increase is long overdue as well lovely!

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Old 03/11/11, 4:10 AM   #26
Dideldidumm
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Priest
 
Gilneas (EU)
Can anyone tell me why they buffed everything by 13% ? It seems to be a very big buff, especially if we consider how long it took them to realize Arcane needs a change(and not by making ab even cheaper).

If these changes go live we do more damage, but it is still only ab spam as much as possible which is kinda dull in the long run

But it is nice that we can use blizzard now as an aoe. AE still sucks without the AB Buff and will be very situational.

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Old 03/11/11, 5:56 AM   #27
 Seonid
Commander Nexus
 
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Human Mage
 
Anachronos (EU)
I have updated the OP with a section on the Arcane specific PTR changes and I will continue to update that section as more changes occur. Given that the PTR is typically a fluid environment, I thought it would help us if a list of changes was in one place. The flat 13% increase in damage does not really affect any of the rotations or the phases, but the changes to AE might bring the Improved Arcane Explosion talent more into focus.

The Mage theme song.
From the moment that the trading ship, Avalonia, slipped its orbital berth above the planet Lave, and began to manoeuvre for the hyperspace jump point, its measureable life-span, and that of one of its two-man crew, was exactly eighteen minutes.

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Old 03/11/11, 10:49 AM   #28
Ceforium
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Gnomeregan
I have not yet run any tests, but wouldn't we need to see something more added to arcane explosion to make it a viable aoe. I was thinking of having it refresh the AB blast stacks when you cast arcane explosion. Do they really expect us to cast an AB to keep our stacks up while AOE'n. Seems as though it would really hinder our AOE if we have to do so. You could use POM to refresh it once, but after that you have to stop and cast AB. Maybe I'm wrong tho, has anyone done any tests? Would it be to strong to have it work in such a manner?

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Old 03/11/11, 11:36 AM   #29
nathanrael
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Ceforium View Post
I have not yet run any tests, but wouldn't we need to see something more added to arcane explosion to make it a viable aoe. I was thinking of having it refresh the AB blast stacks when you cast arcane explosion. Do they really expect us to cast an AB to keep our stacks up while AOE'n. Seems as though it would really hinder our AOE if we have to do so. You could use POM to refresh it once, but after that you have to stop and cast AB. Maybe I'm wrong tho, has anyone done any tests? Would it be to strong to have it work in such a manner?
If you were to put points into Improved AE, it'd come in quite handy for Magmaw or Cho'gall adds, which only cause an infection/corruption if you have threat and get hit. You throw an AB at the boss to keep up your stacks, spam AE, and repeat. The talent keeps you from pulling aggro on the adds (hopefully). Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not AE also has an increased mana cost as well as damage? The patch notes weren't specific regarding it.

Last edited by nathanrael : 03/11/11 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Grammar.

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Old 03/11/11, 5:37 PM   #30
Malcophant
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Mage
 
Bleeding Hollow
The mage changes are not on the PTR yet (just in the notes) so there is currently no way to test it.

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