Cataclysm Arcane Mage Compendium - Page 23

Shaitans · 08/21/11, 3:27 PM

In a similar vein as the point raised by fateswarm, I would tend to believe that a consistent on CD usage would equate to a result that would be similar in terms of DPS while providing more consistency across attempts.

I have a method that I have utilized and would love some feedback from the more math oriented. Assuming that there is no reason to delay my initial burn, I save my first flame orb until I am ready to evocate. My intuition is that while I am evocating, I'm not doing any damage. If I can alleviate that by letting my flame orb travel/start damaging the target while I am evocating, then I am increasing my dps. This way, even if I don't evocate to full (potentially because I burned to 35% and then cast a flame orb), I would almost certainly have a AM proc ready to go to help finish my regen up to full.

I recognize that intuition is a poor substitute for proper modeling and testing. Please feel free to evaluate my strategy.

Kavan · 08/21/11, 4:35 PM

That is indeed very bad intuition. Overall damage done at the end of the fight doesn't care when during the fight you did damage except that you did it. That flame orb you cast before evo contributed just as much as if you cast it after evo or at any other time. The only time when you'll get more out of it is if you cast overall more flame orbs during the fight or if you cast them right before the burn to benefit from the multipliers.

On a different note I've just finished a solver for the effect of Dragonwrath on arcane cycles. The result comparing a model where DW would only proc the way it does on dots without any effect on our mechanics and the way it actually does is almost zero. The dps of the mana neutral cycle in both situations differs by less than 0.02%.

angayelle · 08/21/11, 6:43 PM

On the purpose of planning Mini burn phases, I'll soon include a sort of proc planner which would give an overview of which proc is to be expected and then. Proculas does this almost already by giving you timers about your hidden cooldowns, this is almost how I want it to be but more graphical with a sort of timeframe.

Of course this wouldn't solve the problem of emergency regen needed due to whatever happen during your evoc but it would reduce the problem of "should I wait for more proc to miniburn and then orb regen" ?

oggied0g · 08/24/11, 2:38 PM

I don't think I've seen any discussion on the use of an Engineer's Synapse Springs vs Moonwell Chalise with the burn phase.
I currently macro Mana Gem+AP+MWC to start the burn with a macro'ed Flame Orb+Synapse Springs on cooldown. I don't currently shoot for miniburns but if I do, I get 2-3 AB4's with Synapse Springs up then AM back to 90%+ mana.
Thoughts?

Kavan · 08/24/11, 7:31 PM

I've run your setup with Synapse+MWC through the genetic cooldown stacking solver in Rawr and the optimal way to use them appears to be using AP+MWC+Gem on burns and using Synapse at the end of the burn so you have it up during Evocation and one Synapse use in between burns during conserve.

Eschatonin · 08/25/11, 9:38 AM

I've done sims on my own toon, which will require confirmation from others, preferably with heroic Firelands gear, that the more you reforge from haste to mastery, dps and the gain from both mastery and intellect goes up.
Here are my sims on my own character;

All tests at 25k iterations. Crit kept at 20.05% self buffed, where Simcraft desired it. Hitcap met on all tests, reforges going into or from mastery.

← Click Here

I will need more people to concur, but it seems from this post that;
- Haste indeeds multiply in value with more.
- Haste soft-cap doesn't satisfy arcane with 4P.
- VPLC increases the value of crit slightly.
- Mastery increases the value of mastery with 4P.
- Mastery increases the value of Intellect with 4P.

Aeristiel · 08/25/11, 11:06 AM

Which version are you using? I'm using Simcraft 420-5 and i'm getting very different numbers.

This is also 25k iterations.

DPS: 32276 with a haste rating of 1691

Int: 4.0646
SP: 2.6118
Hit: 3.1706
Crit: 1.3165
Haste: 1.9994
Mastery: 1.6432

I havn't tried stacking Mastery, since from my numbers it doesn't look to be worth it. I'm sitting at 378 item level with 5 Heroic pieces.

semata · 08/25/11, 12:07 PM

Looking at your armories, Eschatonin has the VPLC while Aeristiel does not. Since the VPLC cannot gain a charge more often than once every 2.5 seconds, those levels haste that pushes two casts to below that CD is going to adversely affect the value of haste. That and the mechanics of the trinket in general may explain the difference between the relative values of haste and crit in you two's results.

Eschatonin · 08/25/11, 12:27 PM

My original sims were done on 420-3, but after doing sims on 420-5 I got very different results, with vastly reduced value of int, and a very quick sim (could have been quicker than a 10k iteration sim). Those 2 things have proved in the past to be a broken simulation, so I'm wondering if previous versions of Simcraft had arcane mages all wrong and simmed them slowly, or if 420-5 is broken.

Edit:

← Click Here

I'm assuming that since it's even craving alot of haste after the haste soft-cap, that this version of Simcraft is broken.

Kavan · 08/25/11, 3:08 PM

There was a bug in simc that allows you to reduce cast time below the 1 sec hard cap on gcd. I think they just got a fix in today.

Malcophant · 08/25/11, 3:59 PM

Which action list is being used for these sims? The current default action list has some strange interactions with haste due to the rigid conserve sequence. Due to that, my understanding is that it will overvalue haste up until the conserve sequence is mana neutral.

Try using the action list posted here and see if the results are similar.

Aeristiel · 08/25/11, 7:40 PM

Would make sense if hates was broken since I'm sitting on around 0.994 sec cast time in Warped phase. I see that they are apparently taking your solution into the next build?

I tried with the action list from Malcophant and got quite different results.

DPS: 31831

Int: 4,846
SP: 2,572
Hit: 3.179
Crit: 1.342
Haste: 1.351
Mastery: 1.494

Which would make more sense, seeing as I would have some wasted haste according to AB4 cast time in Warp.

Eschatonin · 08/25/11, 11:52 PM

Redid the sims with the actionlist from Malcophant, and got different results again, but these look in order, and are logical.

← Click Here

I don't have the math, but if anyone would be into it, my theory is that haste is a good stat assuming infinite mana, but with the way Arcane Power uses less mana, and gives us a higher amount of mana left when it has faded, and so it scales with mastery to the point where more mastery will do more damage than more casts (and mana spent).

Penetier · 08/28/11, 6:43 AM

Sorry if this has been looked into before I have done some searching for the past few weeks ever since I first got Moonwell Chalice without being able to find any information on it.

Looking just at the staghelm fight as there is no movement in the beginning of the fight. Last week using normal VPLC + H mirror. This week using moonwell chalice + H mirror.

Last week my maximum crit was 135158 this was with the revelation buff, arcane power, imp mana gem, volcanic potion all up. Mana gem was used during volc pot + power torrent buffs.
Giving me approximately 4078 mastery +/- 50 or so given recent gear changes along with approximately 15200 spell power +/- 150 or so given recent gear changes.

Compared to this week my maximum crit was 158520. However this was with revelation, blessing of the moonwell, arcane power, imp mana gem, volcanic potion and incanter's absorption (from flame scythe). Mana gem was also used during power torrent + volc pot.
Giving me 5778 mastery with approximately 17500 spell power +/- 100 or so.

Last weeks crit was 17 seconds into the fight with 1 clearcasting proc, this weeks being 20 seconds into the fight also with 1 clearcasting proc. Meaning mana percentage would have been extremely close to one another, slightly higher mana percent with the small crit.

One would assume having an extra ~2300(more than 10% increase) in spell power with an extra 1700 mastery(~14% increased damage) along with all the other damage/crit multipliers. I should have achieved much higher than just a 23k increase to the crit.

The WoL can be found here:
Last weeks smaller crit
This weeks larger crit

Ever since I got the moonwell chalice a few weeks ago attempting to double stack mastery procs it has felt as if my hits and crits weren't significantly larger than just having one mastery proc up.

Any information from someone better at the math or someone that has also looked into this possible mastery 'cap' would be greatly appreciated.

énéola · 08/31/11, 7:56 PM

Hi there,

First forgive my english but i'm not a native speaker

I haven't read all the topic but i wonder if it's intereseting to intentionnaly clip Arcane Missile in the conservation phase. I cast AM only to drop the 4th AB stack, and its dmg is not so high, approx. 9-10k / missile if crit, so a total of 35-45k and all of them rarely crit. According to simcraft, Patchwerk 50k, AB is 31966 avg dmg, AM 18771 (with my current gear, 375ilvl). So I spend more time, and do less dmg with AM.

My queston is, isn't it interesting to intentionnaly clip AM, so I can almost immediatly recast the 1st AB of my 4th AB conservation cycle? It would help me to cast more AB = more DPS. But it's required to see if I can clip at the 1st or 2nd-3rd missile to save enough mana...

Thanks for your help !