Mists of Pandaria: All Specs - Page 7

Elge · 08/30/12, 10:39 AM

To be precise: AM has a much higher DPET than AB and obviously higher DPM. While building stacks during your conversation phase, use AM only when you reach 2 stacks. Once your mana is low enough to reset the stacks, use all remaining AM proccs. While burning, use AM procs immediately.

Pyryte · 08/30/12, 11:08 AM

Has anyone been having issue with Heating Up/ Inferno Blast?

I've seen on multiple occasions when I have Heating Up then cast an Inferno Blast that Hot Streak does not proc, it's only every now and then but technically it should be giving me a insta pyro everytime.

I don't have dragonwrath so that can't be it, and I've even gone so far as to stop casting anything once I get heating up, then use inferno blast to see if it procs Hot Streak, and sometimes it doesn't.

Ineedtofu · 08/30/12, 4:26 PM

We're you mid cast when heating up came up? May have something to do with latency where you are mid cast on a second fireball and you casted inferno blast after, the mid cast fireball may have hit the target first?

Tyesh · 08/31/12, 1:34 AM

I've noticed the same thing, playing on an oceanic server I can almost guarantee that it's a latency issue.. I'm halfway through a cast when I get the notification.

Options are cancel the cast, or spam Inferno Blast and hope it hits before your fireball does.

Exoduz · 08/31/12, 2:53 AM

Frostmage: in the most guides and simcraft ist Frost Amor in use, but why? I know 1 Hasteraiting > 1 Critraiting but the amor's don't give raitings.

Molten Amor: 5% * 600 = 3000
Mage Amor: 3000
Frost Amor: 5% * 425 = 2125

Muphrid · 08/31/12, 10:52 AM

Doesn't matter. If you're already crit-capped on frozen targets, the marginal value of crit is greatly diminished. Similarly, only those spells that count as being used against frozen benefit from mastery. Haste and hit are the only rating stats that really benefits all spells for Frost spec.

Why get stats that benefit 2-3 spells when you can get stats that benefit 5? That's the intuitive explanation. The math bears it out, too.

Exoduz · 08/31/12, 11:04 AM

that's true, but the t14 heroic profile has 20% crit raidbuffed, 8% under the cap

Simulationcraft Results

Pyryte · 08/31/12, 11:08 AM

Latency may be an issue for heating up/inferno blast but I looked through my logs and even when I was mid cast on a fireball with heating up but hit inferno blast right after, my logs show the inferno blast hitting first with a crit, but I don't get hot streak

Pyryte · 08/31/12, 11:26 AM

Okay so after a few hours of looking through my logs (30mins straight on test dummy) I've come up with the following conclusion of what's actually happening with heating up/hot streak:

If you have the heating up proc, it takes into account YOUR NEXT SPELL CAST to get hotstreak. What this means is, if you have the heating up proc and are then mid cast fireball, even if you inferno blast after the fireball finishes casting, and even if your inferno blast hits the mob before fireball, the fireball is still the spell being looked at to see if you get a hot streak proc.

Hopefully blizz will change the way heating up/hot streak works to track the next spell that HITS the target instead of the next spell cast, that would result with a lot more hot streaks since you can hit the mob with inferno blast before the fireball hits.

As it stands now though, it is currently tracking your next cast spell, not next hit.

nonmortuus · 08/31/12, 11:27 AM

From what I have seen it is because:

You cast your 1st FB
You start casting your 2nd FB
Your 1st FB crits (great) but your 2nd FB has already been cast and is on its way to the boss/dummie/whatever
You hit Inferno Blast but your 2nd FB hits the boss just before you do and it doesn't crit so you lose your '1st' crit.

I have found that I have to stop casting FB as soon as I get heating up to avoid the following FB hitting and not critting. so I cast FB, Crit I stop casting FB immediately and hit IB to get the Pyro.

Pyryte · 08/31/12, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by nonmortuus

From what I have seen it is because:

You cast your 1st FB
You start casting your 2nd FB
Your 1st FB crits (great) but your 2nd FB has already been cast and is on its way to the boss/dummie/whatever
You hit Inferno Blast but your 2nd FB hits the boss just before you do and it doesn't crit so you lose your '1st' crit.

I have found that I have to stop casting FB as soon as I get heating up to avoid the following FB hitting and not critting. so I cast FB, Crit I stop casting FB immediately and hit IB to get the Pyro.

As I said in my above post, after pouring over my logs I found scenarios where IB hit the mob before the second FB and it still didn't proc hot streak, it takes into account the next spell being cast, not the next spell to hit the mob. So say you cast a fireball, it crits (now you have heating up), you're already casting another fireball, right when the fireball finishes you cast inferno blast: even if that inferno blast hits first, the fireball is the spell being taken into account as to whether you'll get a hot streak proc or not.

EDIT: It's never a dps gain to stop casting that fireball by the way. If you were just doing that to see if it procs HS thats cool, but you should never stop casting that fireball to IB instead to get a HS proc.

Muphrid · 08/31/12, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Exoduz

that's true, but the t14 heroic profile has 20% crit raidbuffed, 8% under the cap

Simulationcraft Results

Well, that doesn't surprise me very much, really, for even below shatter crit cap, my preliminary calculations put the value of haste, way, way above crit (even percent vs. percent), but it's not something I'm willing to bet money on just yet.

Exoduz · 08/31/12, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Muphrid

Well, that doesn't surprise me very much, really, for even below shatter crit cap, my preliminary calculations put the value of haste, way, way above crit (even percent vs. percent), but it's not something I'm willing to bet money on just yet.

Simulationcraft Results

theres the scales even close, but its not actual

when i try ist to scale myself with simcraft (v504-10) its crashed bei scalring the factors and i don't know why

• EasirokThunderpants · 08/31/12, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by nonmortuus

From what I have seen it is because:

You cast your 1st FB
You start casting your 2nd FB
Your 1st FB crits (great) but your 2nd FB has already been cast and is on its way to the boss/dummie/whatever
You hit Inferno Blast but your 2nd FB hits the boss just before you do and it doesn't crit so you lose your '1st' crit.

I have found that I have to stop casting FB as soon as I get heating up to avoid the following FB hitting and not critting. so I cast FB, Crit I stop casting FB immediately and hit IB to get the Pyro.

We spent some time on the target dummies yesterday trying to figure out exactly what was going on here.

This happens when you are less than GCD * FB/PB travel time from your target. If your bolt reaches the target before you can use IB, then you will experience the problem. If you stand right next to a target dummy then the problem is quite noticeable. But if you move back a bit, past the point where your GCD ends before the bolt spell reaches the target, then the problem will go away. The problem resurfaces if you move out to max range (two GCD's out).

The exact distance depends on the travel speed of bolt spells, which I know is standardized but I don't know the exact value, as well as your GCD duration which depends upon your current haste. From trial and error it seems that a distance of around 20 yards is in the middle of the safe zone.

It seems like a simple computation that could easily be accounted for in an addon or a custom Weak Aura setting - presuming you know the standard flight speed of our bolt spells. I know I saw that information recently but have not been able to find it.

Dejah-Thoris · 08/31/12, 1:39 PM

On beta I have no problems getting the Inferno Blast in before the Fireball that is currently being cast hits, even when in melee range of the target. I've replicated this using target dummies on live. I spam IB before the FB ends. The latency for my tests on live is 55ms.