The only problem is MSD nerf. It provided a disproportional dps increase for AM. In its current form AM is lower dps than non-debuffed AB when arcane specced. So, the problem is lack of dps rather than lack of mana.

Most high end mages have abandoned arcane. The only "viable" way for arcane currently is T5 set bonuses and AB rotations. The only role AM plays there is filler for debuff dropping and 5 second rule manipulation.

It has been a known issue that MoD procs plenty of mana back. Indeed I've used it extensively in the past with the then-competitive 33.28.0.

For a long while, however, it's been on a 15sec internal cooldown (I believe it's 15, perhaps I'm mistaken and it's 45 or something).

It's a great piece of trink and it's still good for farming (I'll take it over icon any day on the farm) but it's not a forgoten jewel waiting for discovery. Besides, mana isn't the problem of arcane.

I'm going to buy either [Item not found!] or the [Fetish of the Primal Gods]. Which one do you reckon is better?

Pick the Fetish. At high gear levels, they are equal in raw power and the Fetish has 24 free stamina (and some intellect).
If you're low on +dmg (PvP gear in the armoury), the Seal has a little bit more raw power, but the Fetish has universal +dmg for immunity fights and AE spam, and stamina which becomes helpful in several fights.
It also looks better

Nebuno
Yeah, I was debating which of the two, and found out they seem to give pretty similar dps increase. But Fetish does have int and sta which makes it slightly better.

I would go for fetish if you can spare the 10 extra badges, but if you are in dire need of a PvE offhand (and perhaps wanna save badges for the wrists) then go for flametoungue.


Perox
The metagem nerfs are defintely part of the reason why arcane is less viable, but it's also due to the increase of fire and frost dmg since the dmg coefficient of imp fireball and imp frostbolt were recalculated.

I agree that the lower hit rating required meant mages could go for higher crit, but spell haste wasn't really a changing factor within the change in fire/frost to arcane spec.

If I got an item with haste, that replaced an item that had +hit, I would regem or change some items in order to reach the hit cap rating. I wouldn't simply reject the haste item because it reduced my hit rating, unless it was something like spellstrike pants which offers a shit load of hit :P

My guild recently heard of CasterWeaponSwapper and now there's a current debate over whether to encourage not just healers but DPS casters as well to use it. Is there a mage consensus on whether having a Spellsurge weapon that you swap out for a +40/Sunfire/Soulfrost weapon makes sense?

I don't really see a mage using that addon to be honest.

I mean, while evocating if you want a staff with higher int, that makes sense...but it seems too much to have an addon change your weapons constantly.

Mages don't have that much oom time (if any at all with mana pots and evo) in order to make this addon a viable option.
And with the mana gem buff coming around the corner, this addon would become even less useful.


So if you really don't want to use mana pots, and have another good caster weapon that you want to spend 12 prismatic shards, 10 greater plannar essences, and 20 arcane dust on...then go right ahead.

But if you could afford spellsurge I think you could afford mana pots :P

Instead of Manapots u could use Destructionpots if Spellsurge gave you enough Mana to do so.
Spellsurge is roughly 50 mp5 if everyone in the group uses the addon and spellsurge weapon, so you could use every second pot cooldown. How much +Dmg you lose depends largely on how fast it proccs. I'd assume with Fireballspam it could take some time until a procc after the internal cooldown is up so probably not worth it.
Every 50 secs about 20 secs with a worse weapon then your +dmg weapon, at least 40 spelldmg less for that period, probably more but a destruction pot every 6 min. If I got it right thats not better than simply jugging Manapots. And you need the enchant and expensive destruction pots on top of that.
Addon was very good with Arcane Missile Spam though

To be honest, a more generic addon like Closet gnome-switcher can do the same thing. I have a set of int for evocation, a set of spi weapons for innervates and a riding set. What is nice is the mod automatically detect your buffs and switch your weapon accordingly.

To have a mod decide for you what gear is good for you in the entire fight is not a good idea as there is too many factors that can affect your mana, this mod maximize your mana efficiency at the cost of damage.

Arcane is dead because of :

1) MSD/TLC nerf, both were really a huge boost to AM spam and what made this nuke competitive.
2) Fire and frost buffs, which now are far superior than AM, and this will be even more true with Ice Veins in 2.3.2.

Arcane spec had few advantages, but also some drawbacks like the limited range or the relative immobility, those changes just makes those even more problematic. I was an arcane mage because I could dps more than my fellow fire mages, this was no longer the case, so I'm a fire mage again. Quite simple.

Well I'm arcane spec (61/0/0) also and it seems it isn't that bad as most people say it is. I basically see 2 types of full arcane spec and that is AM based damage or AB based damage.

For start you'll get in AB based damage because the gear dictates it so (kara is the first stop - belt, boots, bracer, gloves, head, chest), +spirit on gear is the key in my opinion for successful AB spam. I'm currently in 2/4 TK and 5/6 SSC and constantly be on top of dmg done or the worst on 4th place. I'm running with 457 spirit raidbuffed so that means another +46spelldmg from improved divine spirit and 258 mp5 while casting. This means I'm using mage armor all the time but for me 3% crit (and generally for arcane specs because of only 175% crit dmg) is the worst viable solution for increase in dps. Also for AB spam intellect plays a big role hence why tiered gear has lots of int and spi on it.

I've played with Vontre's spreadsheet and Lhivera's therycraft-o-matic but it isn't as live playing. For example on vontre's spreasheet with JoW and 250mp5 from shadowpriest I can keep up the AB spam for 1min 52sec and go oom, but in live I constantly keep AB spam for 1:30-1:40 min at about 20sec intervals and still end up the fight with mana (chain chugging mana pots and gems)... so mana isn't the problem, the problem for AB based dmg is, in my opinion, that you need heavy stats (int and spi) to back it up and also be able to predict how long the fight will be and adjust the mana drain AB can do over the course of fight.

Yes I'm using non conventional gems for my gear (int/mp5 and heroic gems like dmg/int, dmg/spi) but I think that is the best suited for this and it may not look as an increase in dps but I know it's pretty obvious that ABx3, 1xAM, 1xScorch rotation is outdpsed by all other specs so increasing dmg will hurt mana regen and int for AB spam and reverse for AM, spi and int will hinder it's dmg (because of the high coefficient it gets with talents). So at a higher level of gear a mage will get more spelldmg so that is very favorable for AM thus the 4pc t6 bonus, means that in the end you'll get to AM based nuke, and here comes the very good use of haste rating that helps more if the spell has a bigger casting time. I'm not there yet but will soon be so it may not be like I said for AM but for AB definitely this is the way to go.

Also the Magic Absorption talent is quite good if you'll be having resistance from cloak enchant, mage armor, mark of the wild (68 that is with 5/5 if I'm not mistaken) so that brings some high mana regen once in a while. It's not reliable but it's nice to fully resist and get back 680 mana (best example is hexlord malacress), since there aren't too many bosses out there that will use physical dmg to injure the raid but most of them will use abilities that are spelldmg based.

I know I don't have WWS parses (I'm too much of a noob to do it maybe or don't have the time to do it) to back up my thinking over the AB based dmg but it works so good I don't think you can call that being dead...

So raidbuffed I have:
787 intellect
457 spirit
1263 arcane dmg
@25% crit
4.46% hit

The % tells you nothing about the gain except it's potential. A longer spell cast nets more secs off the cast time. Just like mages get an int set for the % gain on Evocation, a caster with a longer cast time spell will see more of a benefit from spell haste. If spell haste rating converted to actual .x secs off a spell cast time, then your statement would be justified.

If you have 10% spell haste ...
pyroblast: 6 / (1 + 0.10) = 5.4545s
fireball: 3 / (1 + 0.10) = 2.7272s

2x fireball: 2.7272s + 2.7272s = 5.4545s

same thing

That would be true if you casted 1 spell and just sat there the rest of the fight.

However, since a mage casts spells that can benefit from haste back to back....it doesn't matter if you casted 3 spells at 5 seconds each or 5 spells at 3 seconds each...you still have the same benefit from haste on dps.

This has been explained multiple times before in previous threads.

Unless spell haste brings the spell below the global cooldown (Arcane Blast, Scorch) or it's an instant-cast spell. Which is covered in the general information thread and anywhere else spell haste is discussed. And is a relatively minor point to the basics of "Spell haste is good".

Using Manly's and Cardynal's posts to elaborate a bit (using rounded versions of Manly's calculations)


I'm not exactly a great mathematician, but here goes an attempt to calculate damage varying on spell cast time.

C = Cast time of any spell
H = Percentage spell haste (as a decimal)
N = New cast time after haste

C / (1 + H) = N

So when casting time (C) increases, the new cast time after haste (N), becomes smaller.

Percentage spell haste (H), will effect the average reduced casting time.

C / (1 + 0.4) = C/1.4 = N
C / (1 + 0.3) = C/1.3 = N

Casting time will also effect the reduced casting time.


Example
Pyroblast (6 second cast) and Fireball (3 second cast), with 10% Haste (0.1).

6 / (1 + 0.1) = 5.45 seconds
3 / (1 + 0.1) = 2.73 seconds


So it is correct to say "A cast with a longer cast time spell will see more of a benefit from spell haste.", but only in the sense that if you cast 1 spell.

1 Pyroblast gets 0.55 seconds off.
1 Fireball gets 0.27 seconds off.

However, fights are not dependant on casting 1 spell.

In one pyroblast cast, we can cast two fireballs (2.73 seconds casting time).

2.73 + 2.73 = 5.46 seconds casting time

Hence haste affects all spells differently, but the decreased casting time is constantly proportional to the haste rating.


Explaining it in brief
Assuming haste remains constant, let's say 20%.
20% haste rating affecting a spell with large casting time (Y/1.2), is equivalent to having 20% haste rating affecting two spells with half the casting time ( [Y/2 / 1.2] + [Y/2 / 1.2]

[top] Y/2.4 + Y/2.4

Y/1.2).



Sorry to use your exact points Manly and Cardynal I just thought I would interpret your points differently.

EDIT=> Corrected calculation errors

do you mean these bracers: [Runed Spell-Cuffs]?

Are those even worth going for over the Vindicator's Silk Cuffs?

Runed spell cuffs are significantly better especially if you are hit capped. Although Bracers of Nimble Thought are the best in game if you can get ahold of them

A area which I would need help with is the gemming of the T6 set.

From what I see, people have been forsaking the set bonuses for +12 damage gems. I am quite a fan of gemming my gear according to the matching gem slots so I am wondering if the loss in +spell damage from red gems is significant?

I would think that the dps increase is very minimal from gemming 2*spinel compared to 1*pyrestone(hit or the crit version) and shadowsong. There is also a net hp gain gemming this way

Let's just assume you're hit capped, for convenience.

Using [Potent Pyrestone]/[Glowing Shadowsong Amethyst] vs [Runed Crimson Spinel]

[Cowl of the Tempest] - net gain: +6SP/+5SpellCritRating, +6STA. -6SP
[Mantle of the Tempest] - net gain: +16SP/+5SpellCritRating, +7STA. -8SP
[Robes of the Tempest] - net gain: +23SP/+10SpellCritRating, +7STA. -13SP
[Gloves of the Tempest] - net gain: +8SP/+5SpellCritRating. -4SP
[Leggings of the Tempest] - net gain: +8SP/+7STA. -4SP

Overall: +61SP/+25SpellCritRating & 27 Stamina vs 96 Spellpower.

I'd take 34 Spellpower over 1,19% Crit & 270HP any day.

Although for [Chaotic Skyfire Diamond] two [Glowing Shadowsong Amethyst] are really needed, and are best placed in the Leggings & Shoulders. Here you'll lose 12 SP & gain 5SpellCritRating & a good Meta gem.

I was talkin about that :P
Take the Fetish of the Primal Gods over Flametounge Seal.

Runed spell cuffs are pretty much the second best bracers you can get in game as far as I know.

Bracers of Nimble Thought being the best.


And sorry for the operand error :P, it shouldn't change the way the equation works but nevertheless it was stupid of me to make that mistake.

It shall be corrected!

I've updated my armory to show PvE gear. If you check my gear out, do you still think I should go for the Primal God offhand?

Also, are there any upgrades for me outside of Karazhan (except the ring from CE exalted, the badge offhand and bracers)?