Larisa

I've tried to scroll about 100 pages in the major mage threads here. Maybe the information I'm looking for IS there, I'm just unable to find it, sorry about that if I'm asking already answered questions.

What I'm wondering about is the 2/48/11 build. I'm currently 10/48/3 and considering changing to it. What's troubleling me is the threat issue. I've already got some problems there. Not so much in raid environment, but in 5 man dungeons. Have you noticed increased problems, you fire mages that have changed?

I also wonder about what talents actually to pick when it comes to frost in order to get up to 11. Is there a THE 2/48/11 build the way there is a 10/48/3 that is the most commony used.

Finally... does changing this to this spec mean I should rethink about my stats and what gems and enchants to use?
I'm currently struggeling to get my spellhit rating up from a bit lowish 116. Should this still be my first priority?

 

Rustyshrapnel

I currently run at 142 hit, so hit capped for frost but not for anything else. My gear philosophy has always been that since frost mages get such nice internal crit talents, I cap my hit, get my crit from gear at around 20%ish and then pile on the +dmg. Quag's eye/Icon combo played well to that since both have nice passive +dmg and I got the occasional hasted spellcasts from the Eye and the occasional dmg boost from the Icon. With the braid though, I gain more crit and the ability to restore more mana from my gems as well as a periodic dmg boost. So instead of the constant +dmg from the Eye combined with the occasional haste, I can return more mana to myself over longer fights and get an occasional dmg boost at the same time. Timing this with my water elemental and Icy Veins, I feel I can probably do more overall damage with the Braid/Icon combo than with the Eye/Icon combo, but I could be wrong. In fights that play poorly to my cooldowns or my elemental's survival, would it make more sense to use the Eye over the Braid? My guild is up to Archimonde in Hyjal and Gurtogg in BT.

 

Copernicus

Most DPS classes will have issues with threat in 5-mans without a Paladin. If you can get your tank to install Omen, it should go a long way to making sure you don't pull aggro. Frost does generate lower aggro if that is a concern, since your DPS is split between yourself and the water elemental.

I don't believe there's a standard for the garbage points in Frost. Aside from Elemental Precision, almost everything else will be nearly useless.

Due to the two-roll system hit is just insanely more valuable than damage. I'd reccomend looking at the various spreadsheets to get values for gear and to glance at lootrank to get an idea of what gear to go for. Personally, I'd reccomend getting the CE exalted ring [Ashyen's Gift] and the badges belt [Voodoo-woven Belt]. That would bring you up to 154 hit rating, which is getting very close to the cap.

 

Akuman

Yeah, getting your hit up is the most important.
But that was the case with the old spec as much as it is with the new spec.

The new 2/48/11 doesn't change the way you need to prioritise your stats.

As mentioned by many good theorycrafters in these forums: spell hit (till capped) > +dmg > spell crit

And haste rating ofc is great, in most cases 1 haste rating > +1dmg
(See Post#463 on page 19 for my view/calculations on haste)

<@Terror> "It's easy to forget what a sin is in the middle of a battlefield."
<@cky> opposite over hypotenuse

 

Benegesserit

Don't forget to keep gear that doesn't meet the 73 mob cap since the 5-man and 10-man trash are largely sub 73. I have a "farm" set and a "raid" set, which could essentially be translated to a trash and a boss set.

 

taciturn

I have a quick question regarding the dps opportunity costs of using the different mana regen options, I remember seeing somebody about it before here, but I cannot find it with search. My appologies if the information is somewhere else and i missed it. Currently, i'm running molten armor, and using my mana gems, and mana pots but trying to avoid stopping to use evo and saving it for a backup, but I don't really know if this is ideal.

Obviously my options are:
mana pots vs destro pots
mana gems vs flame caps
mage armor vs molten
and evo vs no evo.

Mabey our SP are doing something wrong, but as fire I seem to need to use pots and gems even with one if i use molten armor. I'm really not sure how to go about calculating the average dps gained or lost over mana gained via the different options, but any help or recommendations would be appreciated.

 

Akuman

Try this spreadsheet.
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t10907-v...s_spreadsheet/

It's not a sure way of checking your mana regen vs dps, but it gives you a general idea of how your particular gear would react to more mana regen.

<@Terror> "It's easy to forget what a sin is in the middle of a battlefield."
<@cky> opposite over hypotenuse

 

Roywyn

There you go, page 72 of the mage TC thread.

 

Pooblius

Hi guys. I've been through the three Mage threads here and I'm still in need of some help. I'm a raid leader on Dark Iron and progressing through T5 content. I have 4 mages and I'm confused on how to help them up their total damage. Here is a link to our last VR kill. WWS

All four mages are fire (2/48/11 I believe) and I'm working on getting them hit-capped. My belief is that they are over-using scorch and losing out on fireball damage. Is the best fire rotation at this stage still 7 fireballs 1 scorch? Our guild leader said that fireblast should be used everytime its CD is up until 30 haste rating. Is that the best cycle?

Based on DPS time I'm guessing that Zyle and Silverblast are spending a significantly longer time running back and forth to avoid arcane orbs and losing out on potential damage there.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I'm a warrior and have never played a mage so I know a little based on what I've read here but I'd like to hear advice from the people that have struggled with this as their main class.

 

◊ manly

First, get your mages to install scorchio to minimize useless scorch uses. It's not perfect but its good enough that I use it myself, which I think is a good indication of its worth.

Second, in theory fireblast can be better than fireball, but the problem is that in practice you end up losing ignite damage due to bugs in the game. If you want more details about this, check my thread here: [Mage] Rolling Ignites: are they back? .

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Pooblius

Thank you. I've tried to read the rolling ignites thread. Again I'm knowledgeable at tanking but fail at ranged DPS.

Sifting through the buffs part of WWS it also looks like there is an inconsistent use of cooldowns. I'll have them install scorchio.

 

Toabo

The Scorchio mod would definitely help. The mage who topped the charts only cast Scorch once, so either he was either indifferent to maintaining buff or trusting the other mages to do it for him.

There was obviously some gear disparity since the top 2 mages were hitting for 200+ more per Fireball than the bottom 2. The mage who topped the charts never got hit by an Orb, while the guy in second got hit once, third twice, and fourth thrice. Consequently, the mage who topped the charts had considerably more DPS time since he wasn't silenced and bandaging.

That said, it's not necessarily all about dodge skills. Sometimes VR hardly ever throws an Orb near you and you can chain-cast without interruption. Sometimes he seems to always be aiming in your general direction, so you barely get in a few casts before you're on the run again.

 

Etherealz

It might not be that he "trusted" the other mages to do it, but more the other mages were doing it for him. Assuming no scorch mobs - the mage who scorches first likely will see other mages refreshing the buff and obviously not have to.

 

Overmindzor

Hey all

I have a problem at the moment, that I can't really seem to figure out.

I'm the mage CL and officer of my guild, and we are contemplating making forced upgrades. My problem is, that with these weapons, the ranking of them is different, for my own calculations and the maxdps.com dps-calculations.

I use these numbers when calculating:

1.00 Damage = 0.76 Hit Rating, 1.64 Crit Rating, 1.03 Haste Rating

1.00 Hit Rating = 1.31 Damage, 2.16 Crit Rating, 1.35 Haste Rating

1.00 Crit Rating = 0.61 Damage, 0.46 Hit Rating, 0.63 Haste Rating

1.00 Haste Rating = 0.97 Damage, 0.74 Hit Rating, 1.59 Crit Rating

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I cut the +dmg at 217 and convert the rest of the stats into dmg, to rank them, and get these results:

1. The Maelstrom's Fury
32,42 dmg

2. Wub's Cursed Hexblade
29,2 dmg

3. Blade of Twisted Visions
28,13 dmg

---------------------------------

Then I use the dps-calculation from maxdps.com and this is the result:

1. [Blade of Twisted Visions] 133.84 dps

2. [The Maelstrom's Fury] 132.22 dps

3. [Wub's Cursed Hexblade] 130.45 dps

-----------------------------------

As with my calculations they are very similar items, dps wise, but how come the ranking is different? Is there something wrong with my stat-numbers? I got them from the "man out of time" program.

So help me please

 

Etherealz

I haven't used maxdps.com very much but perhaps it does not calculate stat equivalencies the same.

 

Akuman

As said previously, Maxdps is alright but it works on a 1 roll system.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_hit_rat...cal_Hit_chance


You should use Vontre's dps sheet and try it out.


Stats will be valued differently, depending on your current gear.

You obviously should hit the hit rating cap first, and then concentrate on the rest of your stats, and at this point any extra hit rating will not increase your dps.


At +1000 dmg and 30% chance to crit with fire spells, this is how my stats were valued.

1.1 haste rating = 1.0 dmg = 0.7 crit rating


But even then, I would just input different items into Vontre's spreadsheet and see how your dps changes.

<@Terror> "It's easy to forget what a sin is in the middle of a battlefield."
<@cky> opposite over hypotenuse

 

f1reburn

One thing that I'm still very sloppy on is the use of cooldowns. What would be the most efficient use of cooldowns for Deep Frost and 2/48/11?

This is how I think I currently time my cooldowns for Deep Frost, just some back of the envelope timing, not counting gcd and such:

0 seconds: fight start
10 seconds: tank has a threat headstart, activate IotSC
10 seconds: activate Water Elemental
10 seconds: activate Icy Veins
30 seconds: IotSC buff over
30 seconds: Icy Veins over
55 seconds: Water Elemental despawns
55 seconds: activate Cold Snap
55 seconds: activate Water Elemental
55 seconds: activate Icy Veins
75 seconds: Icy Veins over
130 seconds: IotSC cooldown over: from here on I don’t know what’s best anymore, I could pop IotSC, the cooldown would be over again at 240 seconds, do I delay the next Water Elemental and Icy veins by 5 seconds or not?
235 seconds: Water Elemental ready, activate it or wait for IotSC?
235 seconds: Icy Veins ready, activate it or wait for IotSC?
Etc.
439 seconds: Cold Snap cooldown over (with 2 talent points )

Some questions:
Activate trinket before Water Elemental, because it gains a portion of your spelldamage?
Activate Water Elemental during Heroism so it gains the haste?
The Water Elemental doesn't gain the haste from Icy Veins, no matter if I cast the Water Elemental before or during the Icy Veins?
Casting Icy Veins during a Heroism is a good thing to do?
Should I ever save my cooldowns waiting for Quagmirrans Eye or Spellstrike procs?

For 2/48/11:
What's the ballpark crossover time for saving the Combustion, Icy Veins and trinkets to wait till the target is below 20% or activating them right as they become available?

 

Muphrid

Your water elemental has +spell power that is related to your own in real time. You need not summon it after activating a trinket in order to have it benefit from that buff. Thus, what I would suggest is that you summon then trinket.

Your water elemental must be alive before heroism is used, or else it will see no benefit.

The elemental is not affected by your personal haste or haste buffs only on you.

Saving CDs for random procs is not something I consider advisable, if only because you lose time reacting to these procs, even if you do intend to wait for them, but if you can achieve "perfect" use, then this would be better.

 

Roywyn

My cooldown rotation for frost is:
Fight starts. I wait a few seconds. Then I summon the WE, click my Icy Veins/Clicky Trinket/Frostbolt macro, use Cold Snap right away and continue spamming Frostbolt. Using IV again when it runs out, and resummoning WE when it's OOM, disappears or dies (mostly the latter).
After this, I just use everything when it comes up again.
I don't actively wait for cooldowns, and I don't think I should.

Your questions:
- The water elemental's spell power is adjusted in real time. Click a trinket and it hits harder. 20 seconds later, it hits for its normal values again.
- The WE gains ~40% of your spell damage, and Waterbolt gains 2.5/3.5 ~ 71% of the WE's spell damage, or ~28% of your spell damage (there is some +/-1% issue/error, but nothing to worry about).
- The WE is not affected by your haste, crit, hit, etc., and not by Icy Veins either.
- The WE is affected by Heroism since it's a group buff including pets. Make sure you have the pet out just before Heroism is cast.

- 2.5s Frostbolts become 2.08s with IV, 1.92 under Heroism, 1.60 under both. That's a good thing.
But if you have haste items, Ashtongue trinket, Haste Drums your cast times will get under the global cooldown of 1.5s and IV will be wasted.
- You shouldn't wait for random procs, no.


For 2/48/11:
If you wait or not depends on whether the cooldowns will come up again before the boss dies or not.
If your cooldowns come up, and you know the boss will die on 3-4 minutes at most, save your cooldowns.
If it will take longer, use your cooldowns now and later on, even if that means you won't get heroism and your own cooldowns at the same time.


Note: If you need to use Evocation, use it as the last cast during Icy Veins. Makes you benefit 6-10 seconds longer from it.

 

f1reburn

Thank you Muphrid and Roywyn, for clearing all that up for me. I realise now that I can Cold Snap right after the Elemental and Icy Veins, no need to wait until they both finish their duration.

Thanks for the neat Evocation trick, I'll remember that.

 

Larisa

Roywyn, how does your macro that makes a combo of icy veins/trinket/frostbolt look?
I have a macro that triggers trinket when it'ts not on cooldown like this:

#Showtooltip
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/run SetCVar(!Sound_EnableSFX!,!0!)
/use 13
/run SetCVar(!Sound_EnableSFX!,!1!)
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()
/cast [harm] FireBall;[target=targettarget,harm,exists]FireBall

I love it, it really makes my life simpler, but now that I've changed to 2/48/11 and I'd like to include icy veins.
I've failed so far, especially since it gets too long. Any suggestion would be very much appreciated!

 

Roywyn

#showtooltip combustion (( or something ))
/cast icy veins
/cast combustion
/use icon of the silver crescent
/cast fireball

As simple as that really :o

I don't use those error message suppression thingies and it works just fine.

 

Tyrian

/cast Combustion
/use The Skull of Gul'dan
/cast Icy Veins
/use Icon of the Silver Crescent
/cast Fireball(Rank 13)

Make sure icon/za style trinkets are in the macro listed after Skull/IV.

 

• Xenophon

#showtooltip Fireball
/cast [mod:alt] Fireball
/endmacro [mod:alt]
/script UIErrorsFrame:UnregisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE");
/use 13
/use 14
/cast Combustion
/cast Icy Veins
/script UIErrorsFrame:RegisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE");
/cast Fireball

Use the alt modifier when you don't want to blow your cooldowns.

 

Larisa

Thanks for all the great ideas!
Hadn't thought about including combustion, that makes it even better!
That alt-idea was also of great help, I've thought a lot about the problem, there are times when you really want your cooldowns to be ready (like second phase on Prince).