Help me please? - Page 23

[DRF]Solmyr · 01/25/08, 6:55 PM

Help me please.

I am trying to decide if going with "off-tier" pieces would ultimately be better than 4pcT6 +helm or 4pcT6 +legs. What is the cutoff point, and is it reachable? The whole point of going for the 4pcT6 bonus is for the 5% increase in Fireball damage. If I am readily pulling 1500 dps, that would be a 75 dps increase. Can that difference be made up from "off-tier" pieces? Every piece of T6 has an "off-tier" piece that is better individually (mostly because points are not as wasted on the 2pcT6 "bonus" and Spirit (is there a worse stat than spirit for 02/48/11 builds running molten armor?)).

Head: [Cowl of the Illidari High Lord] >>> [Cowl of the Tempest]
Shoulder: [Hatefury Mantle] >> [Mantle of the Tempest] (wasted item points on penetration)
Chest: [Vestments of the Sea-Witch] >>> [Robes of the Tempest]
Hands: [Anger-Spark Gloves] ~ [Gloves of the Tempest] (this one is the hardest to justify)
Legs: [Leggings of Channeled Elements] >>> [Leggings of the Tempest]

Or does that 5% scale so well, it's impossible to make up?

Muphrid · 01/25/08, 7:15 PM

This may be a question with a nice, generalizable answer, but just in case, why don't you total up the stats (accounting for gems--see, we can't know how you might gem it) and we can see whether the difference is more than 5% DPS.

manly · 01/25/08, 7:35 PM

Problem is, with that gear setup you will far far overflow on hit ratings with vestment of the sea witch. There is no possible way to make use of the extraneous hit.

The only real tradeoffs youre making is the pants and shoulders, both of which give a fairly extremely small gain over t6. We're talking roughly ~2% (or less) dps vs 5% dps from set bonus, not to mention a stat loss.

[DRF]Solmyr · 01/25/08, 7:59 PM

Warcrafter.net Sample Build (off-tier6)

That is what I came up with after 5 minutes or so of playing around on it. Anger Spark wasn't the answer once hit capped, and I had to settle for the Studios Wraps, but it was nice to get the two Blue gems in order to activate the meta-gem.

Unbuffed
Haste Rating: 90
Hit Rating: 165
Crit Rating: 346
FireSpellpower: 1328
Spell Penetration: 23 (lawl)

I'll whip up a T6 set once I get home.

Smithist · 01/25/08, 8:06 PM

The simplest way to me, would be to get an idea of your average fireball. From there just compare the damage gained from off-sets (doesn't even seem like much) to whatever value 5% of your current fireballs is. For example 100 extra damage on fireballs vs. 50 +damage (random numbers).

Roywyn · 01/25/08, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by [DRF]Solmyr

Help me please.

I am trying to decide if going with "off-tier" pieces would ultimately be better than 4pcT6 +helm or 4pcT6 +legs. What is the cutoff point, and is it reachable?

Or does that 5% scale so well, it's impossible to make up?

Short: You can't beat 4T6. Grab off-set Cowl or Leggings, Zhar'doom or Tempest depending on the hit gear you have/can get.

Illidari Cowl and Channeled Leggings are clear upgrades, ~1.5% each.
Anger-Spark are a flat downgrade plus a loss of 70+ stat points. [Studious Wraps] are okay'ish if you can't find any other way to lose +hit. A last resort.
Sea-Witch is a 1% hit upgrade, damage sidegrade.
Hatefury/Nimble Thought are minor upgrades over T6, less than 0.5%.

The +5% bonus equals ~105 spell damage at 1500 fire damage. You won't make up with any T6 offpieces.
And the Sunwell gear has to be decently designed or offer another set bonus to make it worth breaking T6 for it.

[DRF]Solmyr · 01/25/08, 10:43 PM

Seems as though once I link a profile, anyone can change it... lawl. It's in the T6 gear now:

Unbuffed
Haste Rating: 143
Hit Rating: 165
Crit Rating: 324
FireSpellpower: 1259
Spell Penetration: 0

5% extra damage from fireball.

Roywyn · 01/26/08, 8:10 AM

Is there a mod that displays the cast time of your current spell?

I want to experiment with haste and [Ashtongue Talisman of Insight], trying to find a setup where I can get 3 casts into one proc.
To test this, I'd need to see the cast time of my current spells, to track which ones are hasted and which ones are not.

Now, every other mod out there displays the remaining cast time of my spells, but none seem to display the total cast time.
Does anyone know a mod that does, or am I just too blind to see the options for it?

Muphrid · 01/26/08, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Is there a mod that displays the cast time of your current spell?

I want to experiment with haste and [Ashtongue Talisman of Insight], trying to find a setup where I can get 3 casts into one proc.
To test this, I'd need to see the cast time of my current spells, to track which ones are hasted and which ones are not.

Now, every other mod out there displays the remaining cast time of my spells, but none seem to display the total cast time.
Does anyone know a mod that does, or am I just too blind to see the options for it?

Unlike other stats, spell haste's effect on your casting time is reflected in the tooltips of every spell with a time-based effect that is hastened. Even Evocation's tooltip will reflect the effect of haste, despite the error the Blizzard casting bar has with believing it's still an 8 second channel.

Edit: if that is not sufficient, it probably means you can use an in-game script to print the casting time of a given spell.

ainav · 01/26/08, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Is there a mod that displays the cast time of your current spell?

I want to experiment with haste and [Ashtongue Talisman of Insight], trying to find a setup where I can get 3 casts into one proc.
To test this, I'd need to see the cast time of my current spells, to track which ones are hasted and which ones are not.

Now, every other mod out there displays the remaining cast time of my spells, but none seem to display the total cast time.
Does anyone know a mod that does, or am I just too blind to see the options for it?

Even with 60 haste rating you will be able to make 3 casts with 1 proc.
The thing here is that if you play with low latency you will be able to make the 3rd frostbolt when the proc is with 1 seconds left and you know that if you start casting before the proc expires the frostbolt will be affected by it.
More or less it works the same way as arcane blast cast when the buff is on "0" seconds.

Roywyn · 01/26/08, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by Muphrid

... spell haste's effect on your casting time is reflected in the tooltips ...

Edit: if that is not sufficient, it probably means you can use an in-game script to print the casting time of a given spell.

I want try to cram 3 fireballs into it. So, the tooltip will change very close to the moment I cast the spell.
So, I can't really tell if I got that cast off with the haste proc or not.

An ingame script - hm, someone did something to show that bloodlust didn't affect GCD.
Does anyone know how to make one that prints the cast time of the cast spell?

Muphrid · 01/26/08, 8:22 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

I want try to cram 3 fireballs into it. So, the tooltip will change very close to the moment I cast the spell.
So, I can't really tell if I got that cast off with the haste proc or not.

An ingame script - hm, someone did something to show that bloodlust didn't affect GCD.
Does anyone know how to make one that prints the cast time of the cast spell?

Based on API UnitCastingInfo - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft, I would guess (again, only guessing, because I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject) that...

local spell, _, _, _, beginTime, endTime = UnitCastingInfo("player")
if spell then 
 local castTime = endTime/1000 - startTime/1000
 ChatFrame1:AddMessage(spell .. ' has a ' .. castTime .. ' second casting time.')
end

...should print out the real casting time of the spell you are currently casting (you can see that I merely modified the code on the wowwiki page to suit the need here). I wasn't able to find anything that would print the casting time of any spell in your spellbook. I'm sure someone with more UI knowledge could extend this so that you wouldn't have to use a macro containing that code every time.

Roywyn · 01/26/08, 8:45 PM

That sounds promising!

But I put that into a macro and it made me say just what was written there in /say.
So, um, I'm lacking something very basic on where to write that, or how to put it into a macro. Or do I have to put it into a mod?
I'm really clueless where to write that and how, but it would be great if it worked. Just what I'm looking for.

Muphrid · 01/27/08, 3:57 AM

I think (think, think) that you can write it in a macro like this:

/script local spell, _, _, _, beginTime, endTime = UnitCastingInfo("player"); if spell then local castTime = endTime/1000 - startTime/1000;  ChatFrame1:AddMessage(spell .. ' has a ' .. castTime .. ' second casting time.'); end

That is, as one big line. I'm not certain, though, as all the examples I saw only had one command to be executed as part of the "then" block.

Pintofbrew · 01/27/08, 6:23 AM

Yes, the trade of mana-per-damage-lost is identical, however overall damage is not. I wasn't trying to shadow the excellent work you did in calculating the trade-off equivalences, rather I was pointing out we often conceive Evo as a 8-sec DPS down time where as it need not be but a smaller multiple of 2.

Stirius · 01/27/08, 7:32 AM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Does anyone know how to make one that prints the cast time of the cast spell?

I modified Quartz to show "current time / cast time". It's as simple as replacing line 67 in Quartz_Player/Player.lua (or Quartz/Player/Player.lua)

castBarTimeText:SetText(timenum(endTime - showTime))

with

castBarTimeText:SetText(("%.1f / %.2f"):format(timenum(endTime - showTime),endTime - startTime))

Praen · 01/27/08, 8:13 AM

Is there any early made calculation about effects of system performance and latency on dps, especially on caster dps. I have a very bad graphic card (fx 5200) which gives 5-9 fps for WoW; same in raids (even sometimes fps drops to 3). Besides my latency's around 250-350 during raids (after latest lag fix arrengement). As far as i know, all dps theorycraft workings re made according to ideal game playing structure, like at least 60 fps and 50-80 ping. So i wonder how far my circumstances affect my overall dps?

manly · 01/27/08, 5:53 PM

Originally Posted by Stirius

I modified Quartz to show "current time / cast time". It's as simple as replacing line 67 in Quartz_Player/Player.lua (or Quartz/Player/Player.lua)

castBarTimeText:SetText(timenum(endTime - showTime))

with

castBarTimeText:SetText(("%.1f / %.2f"):format(timenum(endTime - showTime),endTime - startTime))

This is the best thing ever.

Roywyn · 01/27/08, 7:06 PM

[Prism of Inner Calm]
I picked that one up today - does anyone know if it still works?
Does it still remove 1k threat from every enemy nearby when you crit with an AoE spell, making AE essentially threatless?

Originally Posted by Stirius

castBarTimeText:SetText(("%.1f / %.2f"):format(timenum(endTime - showTime),endTime - startTime))

Quoted for a great addition. You have to change something ~10 lines lower for channeled spells, basically adapt the same thing.
It reports broken numbers for Blizzard, but everything is broken with this spell's cast bar anyway.

Thanks a lot, Stirius!

Jarlyn · 01/27/08, 8:25 PM

Originally Posted by Stirius

I modified Quartz to show "current time / cast time". It's as simple as replacing line 67 in Quartz_Player/Player.lua (or Quartz/Player/Player.lua)

castBarTimeText:SetText(timenum(endTime - showTime))

with

castBarTimeText:SetText(("%.1f / %.2f"):format(timenum(endTime - showTime),endTime - startTime))

This is all kinds of fantastic.

manly · 01/28/08, 3:04 AM

I don't know if you realize, but knowing the time spent currently casting allows for quite a revolution of play for AM spam. Sadly, the spec is now pretty much dead.

Pintofbrew · 01/28/08, 5:46 AM

Does anyone know if the Water Elemental gets targeted by Kaz'rogal's drain-mana-and-die debuff? I wiped two raids at Kazzak a few months ago till we realized it was my WE killing us and I'm slightly too petrified to try in MH as we're still freshly into it and not at ease enough to have me chilling out the back with my target being the elemental, watching his debuffs.

Goggles · 01/28/08, 5:53 AM

Originally Posted by Pintofbrew

Does anyone know if the Water Elemental gets targeted by Kaz'rogal's drain-mana-and-die debuff? I wiped two raids at Kazzak a few months ago till we realized it was my WE killing us and I'm slightly too petrified to try in MH as we're still freshly into it and not at ease enough to have me chilling out the back with my target being the elemental, watching his debuffs.

In the 2 attempts I can find for Kaz'rogal where I had an elemental it never got drained (at least according to WWS). I did stand out the way of anyone else to be safe but it definitely didn't blow me or anyone else up either.

Aeadoin · 01/28/08, 3:30 PM

Hey guys, I'm in a kara guild that is just starting in ZA, I'm trying my best to boost my dps in any way possible, I'm running at around 142 spell hit with my Scryers Bloodgem on, I'm looking for any extra little upgrades I could get currently to get that little push to the cap, I've been waiting on the cloak from prince for awhile now, but I've had no luck at all =\

Thanks guys =)

Akuman · 01/28/08, 4:03 PM

[Ashyen's Gift] - Exalted Cenarion Expedition
[Sethekk Oracle Cloak] - Last boss Sethekk Halls

Both great items, though I think that it would be better for you to replace your Violent Signet with Ashyen's Gift, so you would have 163 hit rating.

Btw, if you have some spare money I would go for the [Darkmoon Card: Crusade] and replace it with your scryer gem. And then simply replace all your sta gems with [Veiled Noble Topaz] in order to get closer to the hit cap.

[Darkmoon Card: Crusade] is actually worth more than the Scryer Bloodgem with your current hit rating...equipping it till you get more hit would be more viable than only equipping it once the rest of your gear has hit the hit cap.