Lysara

Actually, both the targeted AoE Splash thing and the Shield breaking do no damage to the WE at all. Combined with Naj not targeting pets with Spine makes it pretty much impossible for the WE to die on Naj.

 

Tiert

Hi, I am a 2/48/11 Fire Mage with a 4-piece T6 bonus, I was wondering how beneficial it is to gem for haste, I have a few haste gems now, and I was wondering whether I should take haste over damage for my gems or use hybrid gems.
I wish I could provide an armory link but my armory refuses to update here a is a short list of my stats, all unbuffed of course. 1120 Spell Damage, 164 hit, 106 haste, 32.69 Critical Strike rating. My trinkets are Icon, and Darkmoon Card: Crusade. Any and all suggestions would be welcome. Thank you in advance for your time.

 

Gleeful

Hey, a guild I'm interested in joining wants me to respec fire if I end up joining (currently 50/0/11 arcane). They're working on BT/Hyjal atm and say arcane is too mana inefficient and BT/Hyjal is AoE heavy. I'm curious as to if this is accurate (haven't been there yet myself). I don't mind respecing for the guild, I'm just worried about having to completely reitemize for spell hit. I rarely have mana problems in SSC/TK especially if I'm blowing pots, and as I understood arcane was better for AoE...

Here's my armory as of now: The World of Warcraft Armory

Thanks!

 

averly

I just went 40/0/21 last night from 2/47/11. My experience with it with BT was that it was about on par with my fire performance (better on trash -- better on Supremus, had issues with Naj and Teron that made it hard to compare). And I will probably be trying it out in MH on Tuesday. I expect that it will actually perform better on the trash waves than fire since most of the AoE that I do is AE spam and that is more efficient on arcane than fire.

That being said -- I will be swapping back to fire soon (whenever I get the gems together and/or waiting for the gems for badges guy since I will be regemming everything then anyhow). This is mainly because while right now arc/frost is competitive, as I progress it will fall behind what I could be getting as fire, since arc/frost is dependant on 2pT5 to perform well.

 

kraa91

Has there ever been any data collected on whether or not there is a difference between using Frostbolt to stack Winter's Chill vs using Ice Lance to stack WC?

Does the instant cast time in any way provide benefit by allowing you to hit your macro earlier, and possibly further assuring the chance of getting your second cold snap off?

 

Vulcana

Any time you are ice lancing when you could have been Frostbolting is wasted dps time. The only time Ice lance would be acceptable is if you are on the move or don't want to waste mana for zero damage return (an example would be naj'entus during his bubble. Scorch restacks/refresh through the bubble, but as i have never done that fight as frost I can only assume without proof that WC will also restack/refresh through it).

 

cryek

in any situation where you want to stack winter's chill without actually nuking the target rank one frostbolts are better than ice lances. They cost less mana and incur less threat, although obviously you can't frostbolt on the run.

There are, however, decidedly few situations where its a good idea to stack winter's chill as a prelude to nuking rather than simply nuking and letting the debuff stack from full-rank frostbolts. I suppose if an add that has to be killed quickly were to spawn during a boss fight, and you were worried about threat while its being pulled away from the raid and repositioned, it could be sensible to stack winter's chill via GCD spells and then nuke once it's securely tanked. But I don't know if there are any fights like this where killing an add is enough of a priority to take out 6 seconds of nuking the boss for an extra ~5% crit on your first 5 frostbolts on the target.

 

MaddHawk

I have tried doing 9 fireballs during a scorch with just that setup. No spell haste and 5/5 improved fireball. The fact of the matter is, with human reaction time taken into account and latency to the server, will eat up over 3 seconds making it very difficult if not impossible to get off 9 fireballs and 1 scorch in under 30 seconds. With quick reactions and focused concentration, I was able to get off 9 fireballs and 1 scorch when I got close to 100 spell haste.

I would say these days, it is better to go 1/3 Spellfire and make [Spellfire Robe] only and craft [Belt of Blasting] and then pick up [Studious Wraps].

I don't know if a water elemental would be immune to the splash damage on Najentus at all. I have only killed him once so far and on looking back at my combat log, all I could see from Needle Spine was that it did, physical damage. I did have alot of difficulty in trying to distuinguish if the damage was from AOE damage from others being hit, or from when he hit me directly. I was in range of taking AOE damage on several occasions on that fight. A water elemental, however, would be immune to the Tidal Shield damage upon breaking it.

[58:Death]: [Death] has earned the achievement [An Honorable Kill]!
[80:Kyrielle]: Death has begun his assualt!!
[70:Medeoan]: Death has begun to stalk the alliance!!
[58:Death]: **** YEA!!!

 

Soraxis

Well if we think about it, if you DO miss out on the scorch debuff as a result of an unlucky resist at the wrong time, this does not only affect you. All of the other fire mages and any destro locks will do less damage for the next little bit, for the next 1.5-3 seconds at LEAST all of the mages will be stuck casting scorch instead of fireball and then the locks will continue to lose DPS as a result of you all reapplying scorches, this becomes even worse the more locks you have in the raid and as fewer mages are around to help rebuff. Yes, your own personal DPS MIGHT go up on a whole if you do this, but for the raid as a whole its not really beneficial to have anybody risking losing the scorch stack on a boss.

"Time is like a monkey, you think its there and then its gone eating a banana."

 

Inoko

If all of these hypothetical mages switched to the same cycle instead of letting someone else take care of the scorch stack, then for each mage you had the chance would become even more infinitesimal. (0.01^N, where N is the number of mages, specifically)

[Edit: I'm not saying this will result in more or less raid DPS in every situation, but I also don't like this "OH NO, THE ENTIRE RAID IS GOING TO EXPLODE!" argument.]

 

Soraxis

I agree that its not the end of the world if you do lose the scorch debuff, but from my point of view the idea is to maximize DPS over the course of the fight. In theorycrafting this is usually done by taking the average chance of X event happening (crits, procs, resists etc etc) and calculating the result of that happening and then this gives us the 'best' theoretical damage per second over the course of a long fight or a series of fights. I've screwed up sometimes and missed my scorch debuff just because I was a splitsecond too slow, not the end of the raid, mages still DPSed well but it is an indisputable fact that we DID lose some of our DPS as a result of my screwup.

Now when you are saying that to compensate for the 1% chance to resist the scorch you can have all of the mages refresh the scorch at the same time, that defeats the purpose, the idea is to have one mage refresh the scorch so that all of the other mages DONT need to waste time on a lower DPS spell, doesnt really matter how your guild does it, but to maximize DPS you will want to have only one mage refreshing scorch at a given point in time.

"Time is like a monkey, you think its there and then its gone eating a banana."

 

Inoko

Right, but your "Cycle" has to include space for two scorches if you believe that 1 isn't enough (and if it is, why are we even arguing, since that was what was proposed and you responded to). And you can either Lose DPS by waiting to see if the first is resisted before starting the next one, or by scorching twice. If you're going the "scorch twice" (Best method!) then it's also entirely possible to have two mages each do a "max fireball + 1 scorch" rotation. The chance of scorch falling off remains the same as with the other one, but in this case the cycles can be dragged out that extra fireball to actually benefit from the cycle altering effects of haste, for example.

I'm not saying that you should let scorch fall off because that's max DPS. I'm saying that there are other, perhaps better, ways to deal with the scorch debuff that maximize rDPS even further than the old fashioned "Make one mage the bitch" method.

 

Soraxis

That is a good point, I'm not going to disagree with what you're saying right now because it looks like the numbers are fine enough to the point where I/we need to go beyond simply talking about the theory here and actually figure out some numbers that different rotations with different sets of mages can put out as a net effect. A few things on the practical level that I think might make things harder to have mages scorch together like you're describing:

A) only one mage will see the debuff wear down, making it harder for the other mage to gauge how long he has until he has to scorch.

B) spell haste will put people a bit more out of wack, if somebody has it where they have more spell haste than the other but not enough to add another fireball to their rotation, they'll eventually be scorching at the wrong times.

*Edit* I did some quick number crunching here, going off of Vontres DPS spreadsheet (I'm using that a lot lately hehe) I took his base numbers of fireball having 1407 DPS and scorch having 1094, here are my calculations on the two different ways of scorching:

A) As you are describing, putting the 9th fireball in the rotation and having 2 mages cast scorch,

2*(27*1407+1.5*1094)/28.5=2781.053


B) Having one mage cast a fireball 7 times, scorch, fireball as we determine if the scorch resists and scorch again if necessary and the other one cast fireball nonstop

(24*1407+1.515*1094+25.015*1407)/25.015=2823.167

It probably could be simplified, if you need to double check where Im getting all my numbers from, the first set of the equation is simply the fireball DPS, the 1.5*1094 is the first scorch being cast and then the extra 0.015 is the chance of the second scorch having to be cast (1% of the time means an extra 0.015 seconds on average per rotation), 25.015 is the other mage spamming fireball

Then both calculations are divided by the time spent on each rotation to give a net DPS for the two mages. If my numbers are right it looks like the single mage casting scorch still comes out ahead compared to the other one.

I tried to look into vontres spreadsheets to find an equation (long or short) for his calculations so I can post it here somewhere, essentially its jumbled all up within the whole thing, if you are wondering how he calculates it I do know he figures in spell hit, haste, damage and crit accurately. If you really wanna see where he gets his numbers start at G61 on his 'calculations' page and see where the wild goose chase takes you :P

"Time is like a monkey, you think its there and then its gone eating a banana."

 

Inoko

Indeed. Looking over it, the difference is minimal, but it does look like the "Screw on mage" style of scorch maintaining is the best. I used your rotations and did a little (lot) of math because I wanted to see if there was any situation where the other rotation would be better. Not showing my work because I deleted it as I went, but the end result was:

Rotation 1 [Two mages doing 9fb1sc] came out to:
(699.3683 + 0.8570x + 734.3710y + 0.9426xy)

and

Rotation 2 ["Traditional" averaged rotation of two mages] came out to:
(708.6604 + 0.8706x + 539.6708y + 0.9576xy)

In both equations, x is the averaged bonus spell damage of both parties, y is the averaged crit rate. The only situation where my proposed rotation would be better is under a bizzarro world where damage was infinitesimal and crit insanely high.

So, get back to screwing a mage.

 

Caryna

I am torn between those two gloves. [Studious Wraps] have 2 sockets and a +4 dmg bonus on top of the +40 dmg, however, one socket is blue, which means I'll have to use a gem with +sta as well to obtain the bonus. Let's say I am hit cap'ed and use epic gems I'd get a [Runed Crimson Spinel] and a [Glowing Shadowsong Amethyst] for a total of 40+12+6+4 = 62 dmg.

On the other hand [Enslaved Doomguard Soulgrips] have only one yellow socket and a +2 dmg bonus on top of their +46 dmg. Using a [Reckless Pyrestone] I'd have "only" 46+6+2 = 54 dmg. However, I'd also gain more stats, more crit and some extra haste rating.

I can't seem to make my mind up between 8 dmg and the extra stats/crit/haste.

You know that you play too much WoW if you partners pants become a rare drop.

 

averly

When I ran RAWR, the enslaved demon gloves were better for me by a margin. But I suggest that you run it or use Vontre's spreadsheet to figure out what makes sense given the rest of your gear.

In general tho, I am finding that there are more and more fights where a bit extra stam is welcome as we learn them (4/5 4/9).

 

WMA

Recently got 2PC T5, and I've been experimenting with 40/0/21 - Have been putting out around 1400 - 1700 DPS depending on the fight and whether I get the SPriest + Ele shammy group.

Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

I was thinking of changing gloves to: [Studious Wraps] with a 20 Dam and a 4Hit/5Dam and 5Dam/6Stam Gem.

Changing gems in robe to: 2x 8 +Hit

Changing Cloak to: [Ruby Drape of the Mysticant]

And re-specing to 2-48-11.

Guilds currently working on Teron(I put out about 1260ish DPS in the gimped group, and 1400 - 1600 in the buffed one).

Could I expect higher numbers from fire with my gear?

When I used to be 2-48-11 I experienced savage mana problems (Mainly when I was in Kara gear.).

Is 2-48-11 more self-sustainable with better DPS than 40/0/21 in a nonSpriest, nonShaman group considering my gear level? Most nights I have the ele shammy and SPriest, but somewhat often(esp in newer content) a Healer needs it, and I get swapped out. Should I bother spec'ing 10/48/3 for these rare occurrences?
Wow Web Stats - WWS parses fwiw.

I've been playing around with Lhivera's TCoM and Rawr Beta, and have gotten some different numbers from both, with fire and Arcane relatively close on DPS, with fire out ahead by a bit - but I'm not sure how well this would translate from theory into practice, and more importantly I don't want to be mana-screwed on important fights.

 

Izzual

Hey guys, my guild is just starting hyjal/bt (4/5 hyjal and on bloodboil in BT). Any suggestions on how i can upgrade/change my gear around for optimal dps?

armory link - The World of Warcraft Armory

I know my helm is weak, i am getting s3 helm this tues for an upgrade, ive been unlucky on VR/Hex lord helms so im going to pick up s3.

I also have over 100 badges, so i can buy any of the new badge loot coming out.

 

Carnivean

I have one small question.

My guild has downed Illidan 2 months ago but we have been damn unlucky concerning Trinket drops.

Neither Hex Shrunken Head nor The Skull of Gul'dan have dropped (yes I was in like 80+% of the ZA IDs, we are just that unlucky), so my question ist:

According to Rawr iQuagmirrs Eye is one of the best Trinkets after the Hex Shrunken and Skull, its better than the BT Rep trinket or the Sextant, can this really be right? Or is the internal CD of Quagmirr wrongly calculated?

 

aznxk3vi17

Our guild just downed Brutallus for the first time the other night, here's a WWS: Wow Web Stats

Now, I'm geared pretty well compared to the other mages, and have all the same buffs and consumables. However, I ended up doing a good 50k damage less than the next best mage. I'd like to believe that it was the RNG that screwed me over (31% crit, well under my expected crit rate of 40-42%, and more spell resists and partial resists than any of the other mages), but barring these factors, was there something I was doing wrong?

I believe I didn't pop my cooldowns quite so correctly, as I popped everything about 20 seconds into the fight to avoid pulling aggro, but because of that, when Heroism was popped, the only cooldowns I had were Combustion, Icy Veins, and my trinket, which I ended up popping, only using Destro Pot and Flame Cap when they were up. I think if I popped a Flame Cap on the pull, my cooldowns would line up much better.

 

Rutger

Hello, I'm sorry in advanced for my poor english and any possible grammar mistakes.
I was browsing mage threads for quite a longer while, but i haven't found anything regarding the problem i have.
My guild is currently working on Illidan, i have been speced arcane since we started SSC. I've been using a 3xAB 1xAM rotation, along with 2/5 T5 set bonus which is pretty much essential for this rotation. Lately, as we started doing "T6 gear level" areas, I started wondering about my future itemisation.. I can see only 2 ways myself, - either keep 2/5 T5 and stay with the old rotation, or get rid off the T5, get at least 4/5 T6 and figure out some new rotation with at least similiar DPS outcome to the old one. If i wanted to choose a way that suits best for me as a player, i'd choose the second option, although if it will mean a major DPS loss, then i can't do that since we are aiming to maximize our DPS for incoming in near future encounter - Brutallus. I've heard some rumours about mass AM rotation, but no further info or details.
Thus, my question is - Do you know of any 4/5 T6 rotation which is at least similiar in DPS outcome to 3xAB 1xAM? I'll be greatful for any suggestions or solutions you may have, and im looking forward to see your reply.

 

Gofa

Well, you used fire ward 5 times. Assuming zero haste, that's 7.5seconds of wasted time (your healers should be able to keep you up).

Other than that cooldown stacking is a huge factor, I aim for this rotation:

0:10 - burn everything
0:30 - second trinket
2:10 - mana potion + trinket
2:30 - trinket#2
5:00 - flamecap
5:XX - use everything once he is <20% + hero

I prefer a manapotion to a destruction potion so that I don't have to use evocation.

Furthermore you didn't have any drums, that's a dps loss again.


@Rutger

Go for 4/5 t6 and try 2/48/11. You should have better results than using a 3x AB + 1x AM rotation with 2 t5.

 

Tyfon

@Rutger: If you've read all the mage threads, you'll know that AM is not regarded well at all due to its poor scaling. If you have 4pT6, you should really think about respeccing fire. If, however, you're hard-set on arcane, at least consider a more sensible arcane spec such as 40/0/21 and replacing AM in your rotation with frostbolt. http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t18441-m...tional_thread/ is a good place to start.

 

Rutger

Nothing new then, i was afraid so.

Now just out of curiosity, let me quote something: "Please read the other thread carefully, but to make a long story short, it is no longer get
2/5 T5 and do the 3xAB/AM/scorch rotation, it is get 4piece T6/TLC/MSD/ATOI and spam
arcane missiles unless AP/POM are up, in which case you POM-Pyro."

That's a quote from the first page of this thread... any ideas what does the TLC/MSD/ATOI shortcuts mean?

 

Gofa

TLC ->[The Lightning Capacitor]
MSD ->[Mystical Skyfire Diamond]
ATOI ->[Ashtongue Talisman of Insight]

AM spam was viable in 2.2 but was nerfed to death once there came the internal cd on TLC + MSD in 2.3