14 crit is better than 4 dmg in probably every possible equip, so rawr is right. For quick and dirty calculations, I normally use 1crit=0,7dmg which is exact enough for most needs.
maybe rawr is not counting ghost hit, I have no idea about that, but even without counting spellhit, I'd go fot Solarian's Wand. One Possible exception is a Witch doctor's stick with a glowing Night's eye to get the metagem working and then gem other pieces with better gems, you'd need to check the rest of your gear if that makes sense.
For Council tanking, the WE is nice to have but far from a necessity. Just start a pyro, get a paladin to BoP you and run right after it when the cast is done and steal the buff. You need to be fast but there is nothing else going on at the start of a fight so this shouldn't be a problem.

MaddHawk

Replace [Item not found!] and [Design: Potent Noble Topaz] with [Item not found!]
Get some epic gems in belt of blasting.


Toonie

14 crit rating > 4 spell dmg

And Rawr calculates spellhit based on your gear, not your talents, for that specific display of spellhit.
The calculations in terms of dps of a specific spell will change if your remove elemental precision or arcane focus.

And it does calculate the ghosthit to my knowledge.

1 crit is about 0.8 spell damage (depending on gear... slightly more with really top-end gear - up to 0.89 with full Sunwell - and down to 0.7 in Spellfire and no flask or the like)... so 14 crit is 11.2 damage. Crit is bad, but not that bad.

Doesn't it depends on the spec you're using?

I mean deep frost with 100% crit bonus then crit should be valued higher since a full % increases your total spell dmg by a full %.
I'd think similar grounds with deep fire, but you get mana back as well (MOE, Ignite),
but now doesn't goes down for Arcane with only Spell Power?

I havent crunched the numbers but I'd imagine it'd be 1 or 2 spell dmg lower.

All stats 'wroth' depends on the spec and spell used. Most of it is related with the crit multiplier.

1% crit worth isn't that interesting when your crit multiplier is 175% (ie: deep arcane casting arcane spells).

Heres a simple table that gives most of the idea
-deep arcane, arcane spell: 175%
-deep arcane, fire spell: 245%
-deep arcane, frost spell: 225%
-deep frost, frost spell: 200%
-deep fire, fire spell: 210%

all other cases fall under the normal 150% crit multiplier.

Also, the absolute worth of your crit depends a lot on your base crit. At 0% crit, 1% more crit at 200% multiplier is worth 1% more absolute dps. However, if you have 45% crit rate (common for deep frost), then gaining 1% crit more means:

45 * 2 + 55 = 145
46 * 2 + 54 = 146
ie: the absolute gain is 146/145 =~ 0.69% dps increase

Now take the case of, for example, deep fire with 37% base crit rate (with combustion averaged out and raid buffs)

37 * 2.1 + 63 = 140.7
38 * 2.1 + 62 = 141.8
ie: the absolute gain is 141.8/140.7 =~ 0.78% dps increase

In other words, both the crit multiplier and base crit rate will deeply affect the worth of crit as a stat. This is why deep arcane with fire spells, with a very low base crit rate (less than 30% typically) and a 245% multiplier will have crit be far more interesting that any other spec. Incidentally, this is also a bit why destro warlocks gain a lot from crit, despise having only 200% crit multiplier - because their base crit is very low.

Uh, yeah. Those are deep fire numbers. Should be about the same for Deep Frost, though. Sorry.

Basically you AB spam. The frostbolts are there as filler to ease your mana consumption. The AB will be the most variable number, while your FB will sit around 1 or 2, maybe more depending on your haste (cooldowns included), and you have to determine what the AB number will be and how many FB's you need to weave in by the amount of mana you use in the first 20 seconds or so.

First, let me get out the way that I am a fire mage and have only dabbled in arcane/frost. However, I do read these forums pretty regularly so I think I can answer question.

Since a fully ramped up AB is the highest dps spell we have available (along with very low threat with arcane talents), the limitation on spamming this spell is our mana pool. Most arcane mages spam AB until they are low on mana (after potions, gems, etc) - then switch to frostbolts for mana regen purposes until the potion/gem cooldowns are up.

The problem here that Fireangel is trying to avoid is the re-rampup of AB. Once your cd for potion/gem is up, you would stop frostbolts and switch back to AB spam. However, you'd have to cast 3 AB's not at maximum speed and therefore lose some dps. The goal of Fireangel's rotation is to inject frostbolts in your AB burn time to try to keep mana consumption down a little in order to never have to frostbolt so much (due to lack of mana) that you lose the AB debuff.

I don't particularly see anything wrong with this methodology. You are sacrificing dps whenever you cast a frostbolt over a ramped up AB. However, on any fight of extended time, this is unavoidable (sans Innervates). Now, there is probably someone smarter than me than can prove mathematically how much dps you lose when the AB debuff falls off and then place that number against the dps you lose from casting a frostbolt instead of a ramped up AB. Then you could look at how many frostbolts would be in a Fireangel rotation vs how many AB ramp ups you would need without the rotation - thus proving which one was more efficient.

My guild does not let us use epic gems for T5 and badge items at this time as we do not yet have a massive surplus of them. I am waiting for the gem vendor on Quel'Danas to open up to do most of my re-gemming but that is a long ways off since Dentarg (US) is barely into phase 3 and our combined small pop and excessively zealous ganking alliance have driven most horde to not doing SSO dailies. As far as the gems go I am not planning on re-gemming at this point in time. The T6 helm is a new thing that I got just last night. However my question was not for gemming or gear advice, I know what to do there and what my own deficiencies are.

My question was for T6 raiding mages to take a look at my armory and tell me what sort of ball park DPS numbers they believe they could achieve in my situation and off advice on what sort of cool down management advice they might have. My original post can be found: http://elitistjerks.com/723667-post1549.html

Edit: Because I know many go big on spell hit if under the cap, I am currently debating getting the badge ring once our badge vendor is complete. I would be replacing my Ring of Eternity since I am not exalted and this week was our last week in Hyjal until we kill Illidan.

At the risk of reviving a old/answered question, my suggestion would be to offer your raid leader the option of giving you assist and letting you swap in a living dps at 20%. That is to say, if the only reason your guild doesn't bloodlust at 20% is because too many people in the receiving groups are dead, why not swap in living raid members to ensure 5 people benefit and be able to use it anytime? After all, for most fights we're just watching our cooldowns and mana bar slowly tick down and pressing one button every two seconds. Gives us something to do

Of course bloodlust/heroism at 20% isn't written in stone, even for mage/warlock groups. There might be a particular phase that you want to blow it during, or it could even be given to the healers depending on the fight. As long as there's a compelling reason and the content isn't on complete farm, its pretty much up to the officers.

Hi there.
I have been playing Wow for about six months now and I have leveled quickly.
I love playing wow for the fun of it and I can say that I have not become jaded yet.
At first I refused to become an egotistical human calculator but, now I don't have a choice.
My guild just cleared Hyjal and we are almost finishing up BT. All the fun is coming to an end and the end game content is putting stress on a lot of people. I'm usually in the top 10 when it comes to DPS but, here is my question.

I do my fair share of damage but, I cant understand how some lesser geared veteran mages are out DPSing me. Here is my armory link:

The World of Warcraft Armory

I'm a fire mage (2/48/11) and I use the classic 5 x scorch 8 x fireball x1 scorch rotation. My DPS is up there on the charts but, lesser geared mages and some loks are beating me. I just started using a wireless connection and sometimes I experience lag and pauses in casting. I was a mouse clicker but, I switched to button clicking. I asked some of the other mages advice but, they wont tell me their secrets (if I out Dps them then I may take their raid spot..lol). I over heard a conversation about clear casting macros..but I don't know what they are. Are there mage macros that enhance DPS? I have tons of gear (boots of incant, tormented demon robes, vindicators pendant of subjugation, vengeful gladiator's cowl, etc.) I am probably the best geared mage in the guild and I should be doubling my Dps. On paper everything is fine but in game???

I have been mixing and matching several items and trying to max my hit. I always end up over a bit or under.
Take a look at my armory link. Can anyone help?

@Madhawk
Your armory currently shows pvp gear.

Replacing Spellfire belt and gloves with Studious wraps and Belt of blasting is a good idea. There is some dps increase due to massive +hit on Blasting, you are no longer bound by the set, and get some nice stats from the gloves.

Spellfire robe is pretty much unmatched for pure dps until Vashj's robe. The only reason you might want to get rid of it is if you feel that you have trouble surviving with the low hp.

That being said, i'd still advise against Demonsoul robe. If you really want to replace Spellfire robe (e.g. want to drop tailoring etc), then the best non-raid option is this one from heroic MgT [Scarlet Sin'dorei Robes]. Hold onto yer badges for epic gemz.

Finally, 40/0/21 is weak-ish until you get at least 2xt5. You are welcome to try it, of course, but don't expect miracles. This build requires a good amount of <gasp> spirit. Your current gear is more suited to elemental specs.

Looking at your armory doesn't tell me much apart from the fact that you are wearing a lot of the new badge items. Given that you are asking about macros I might venture to guess that you are not making optimal use of your cooldowns. Correct me if I'm wrong (and stop reading here).

The best method to maximising damage as a fire mage is to stack up all your activations during molten fury range, i.e. when boss is under 20%. This gives you 20% extra damage. If you also save your Icon of the Silver Crescent and a mana gem (SCB buff) for use during this time, those items will be more effective compared to using them at another time. Molten fury is also the moment to use icy veins because, simple as it may sound, this will allow you to cast more fireballs during the 15/20 second window where your trinkets are up. Oh, and to top it off - use combustion to make sure most of these fireballs are crits.

So really you need a macro to pack all this into 1 keypress
/cast Combustion
/cast Icy Veins
/use Icon of the Silver Crescent
/use Mana Emerald

You can also add /use Destruction Potion to that if you aren't using your potion cooldown for mana or health. Remember to cast Scorch first because it would be a waste of these buffs to have to refresh it.

Since the cooldowns for most of these activations is 3 minutes, in a fight which lasts longer than 4 minutes, you can use this macro twice. Once at start, and then save cooldowns for the final 20%. Don't be tempted to use your gems every 2 minutes, because in fire spec, their value is in the extra damage and not in the extra mana.

MaddHawk: I can't see your armory, you're in Vindicator's, but I doubt your armory is the problem, and clearly, neither is your not using flamecap and/or destropots. In almost all the parsings that are worth disseminating (as not all boss-fights can provide useful data, and sadly you weren't in on Naj'entus) you were either much below Styrany or barely above him.

As far as I can tell, firstly, your colleague Styrany is rather dull, prefering to drop Combustion and 2 out of 3 Elemental Preciseon for the amazingly Abysmal Arcane Meditation, which is questionable at least. This obviously means he's dropping Icy Veins, and to boot, aside from having AMed -and- clearcasting, he ALWAYS gets a shadowpriest in grouping while you do not. What you are seeing is a case of in-class favoritism, based clearly on reasons which are not to do with performance, because I somehow doubt a player like that can realistically out-perform you.

Secondly, you seem to be a scorch-bitch. On Terron you had a Fball to Scorch ratio of 8.4:1, while he had 20.3:1. On Kaz'rogal you had identical casts almost, and you performed slightly better than him, no probs there, and on Az'galore again you're the scorch bitch, with twice as many scorches than either of the other mages. Despite this you maintain competitive. Three trinkets, 2 combustions/IVs, 1 BL... I honestly don't get why you don't blow him away given he doesn't have either IV or Comb. Your balls are hitting harder by the looks of it, and crit isn't being a bitch with you.

Unless you have some serious gear deficit, which I can't detect and sure as hell can't assume given your fireballs are hitting for a higher average than Styrany's, the only thing I see as a reason to sub-perform is your lower fireball/scorch ratio. That, and a clear preferential to the inferior mage. I tried to rationalize it in my head but for the life of me, seriously, can't envisage any reason on this earth why a mage would spec at a T6 level Arcane Meditation with those kinds of int/spi stats and drop Combustion and IV, Particularly when they seem to get picked over two other mages exclusively for an SP group.

What I think you need to do is get the other mages to run Scorchio! so they can pull their weight around too.

So I want to test the 0/40/21 build. But not exactly sure what the optimal build is. Here is what I have now any suggestion on changes that need to be done would be great. For Double Icy Veins.

Edited I had the wrong spec I was asking about.

LostnFound: For some odd reason you've chosen to link an iteration of elemental fire-based spec, which I might add is rather badly designed to boot. You perhaps meant to link to another spec you designed but copied the wrong URL.

Regardless, a 40.0.21 should be along the lines of

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Mage -> Talent Calculator

There is discrepancy in whether you want to spec 4/5 Magic Absorbtion, instead some prefer improved counterspell, arcane fortitude, or magic attunement. Some players may even prefer points in Arctic reach, though this is questionable practice as AB will still have 30y range and any mana you don't save from Frosbolt is mana you won't be able to convert to AB later on.

The convention is to take advantage of the Frostbolt-EP bug and spec only 10% hit from talents, which comes to 124. Your damage should come exclusively from AB and Fbolt, with percentages varying depending on mana availability. Heavy damage gear focus will not help you if you're lacking external regen sources. Given perfect external regen, you will see little difference between int/spi gemming and traditional flat spellpower gemming, but the less SP/JoW/Manaspring/BoK/BoW/DivSpi you get, the more int/spi gemming/gearing will have relative value over spellpower.

Don't forget to change your chest enchant to 15spi and use Draenic Wisdom instead of Mageblood def. elixir. Also drop sunfire/shadowfrost for 40dmg on weapon.

Well the [Studious Wraps] are a dps downgrade from [Spellfire Gloves] even without the set bonus, so there's no real reason to wear them unless you spec out of fire/arcane or need some extra stamina in a particular encounter. Useful to have, but not a dps upgrade.

[Belt of Blasting] is also not an upgrade over [Spellfire Belt] IF it breaks the set bonus. You need at least one other upgrade item (where the upgrade of the two items together overcomes the 35 or more spell damage you gain from the set bonus). The advantage is the belt is easy to acquire, so when you do find that other upgrade (probably [Vestments of the Sea-Witch] or better) you can quickly get the belt & make an overall upgrade, even though the vestments are not an upgrade by themselves (so far as I can tell, anyway).

There's no real reason to pre-empt breaking the set bonus. It's good to have a plan and know which items you'll need before you can make a break for it and get an actual dps upgrade, roll on them, have the resources to buy them or whatever you want to do - but don't equip downgrades. Wait until you have what it takes to make it an upgrade otherwise you're just not maximizing your potential.

Ah, right, you've got it there. But even then there's no real reason to replace it, just carry your higher-stam piece for those encounters where you think you need a certain amount of anti-squish. Some bosses require some minimum HP (10k buffed is a good rule for Naj'entus for example) at which point you should certainly have the gear to get yourself to that level, but that's no reason to gimp yourself on all sorts of other encounters by wearing such stam-heavy gear.

Yeah, the robe options from the new badge vendor don't seem to be too compelling (granted I was comparing them to Vashj's) - though the pants & ring aren't too bad but for pure dps upgrade, epic gems are probably going to give more bang for your badge. (I still bought a lot of the badge gear though - pants + ring were minor dps upgrades, but gave some nice stamina too. Got the weapon was for PvP and high-stam PvE)

Sorry for the delayed response, but anyway, I have about 12k ish mana buffed with elixirs and such, but the last part is where I'm confused, how to determine how many ABs should I use before I switch to a couple FB. Also when ramping up the initial AB stack does it go AB AB AB then start the nomal rotation what ever that may be ( I have herd 5:2 is a pretty standard rotation) or do I cut off early and start on the back end of the rotation and go from there. Also what armor should I use, I have been using Mage Armor for the regen.

Wizeowel.
Thanks a lot for your advice and the macro really helps!
You are right, the problem seems to be my cool down use and mana management.
Saving trinkets and gems until molten fury is a great idea.
But what do you do about the temptation to use gems, iv ,combustion, and icon in the middle of fights?
For example hyjal thrash and boss fights? Mages get 3 emerald uses. I find myself running oom very quickly in Hyjal thrash pulls and I have become dependant on gems and pots. Yesterday I tried mage armor and I noticed huge improvements with mana management.

So I guess my question is what is a good use of mana management?

I have learned a lot by reading these forums. Before the end game content, my mind set was burn things down and have fun! Now I can respect wow and all the crazy human elitist calculators lol. Who would have know that I would have to be exceptionally great at math to play a video game...it's a game of numbers and people devote their lives to solving these mathematical equations every night. I understand why end game content was saved for a select few who could figure things out. Any way sorry about the tangent.

So back to my question.
Great mana management.
Hyjal and Bt boss fights..what trinkets/cool downs to use at the beginning of fights.

Also, yes you are right. I have a lot of badge gear. I went all out and got everything. I considered these upgrades.
I have yet to come across vestments of the sea witch, hood of hexing, or the shrunken head trinket from Za. Which are huge upgrades for a mage. My t6 pieces consist of what I am wearing on my armory profile.

The World of Warcraft Armory

So any gear changes that anyone could think of would be great

(I have wub's blade, witch doctors wand, vindicators pendant of subjugation, robes of the sindori, demon robes, and etc.)

Basically, i have the gear..I just need to feel in the blanks.

Thanks Elitist jerks!

Guys Im sorry, been playing my hunter for a long time. I want to give my mage a shot again. I was wondering if anyone could maybe take a look at my guy and give me an idea of what spec to do wirth what I have for gear. I will be changing many items soon...loosing all PVP stuff and getting PVE gear. I want to stay frost/something

The World of Warcraft Armory

Thank you for any help that can be given.

burnbabyburn:

Part of your job as a mage is to manage your dmg output (and therefore mana consumption) vs. mana regen. Roywyn put together a great post which ranks the dmg vs mana exchanges you can make.

http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

This is done with the top gear in mind so us peons need to take some of the numbers with a grain of salt. You also need to gauge how long you think the encounter will be. In a typical 3 min farm encounter, you'd probably want to save all your cd's for your molten fury/BL window at the end of the fight. However, if its more of a 5 min learning encounter, you will want to burn all your cds early in order to plan to have them back up during MF/BL window.

The unfortunate element of the SCB is that its on a 2 min CD while all your other CD's are generally 3 min cd's. Therefore burning that early may 'unsync' those cd's.

If you are consistently having mana problems (you shouldn't if you are getting a shadow priest and JoW), I would recommend using mana pots aggressively early on to be in position to use your potion cd for a destro pot during the MF/BL window. Once I started syncing destro pot/Icon/BL/IV in the molten fury range, I rocketed to the top of our dmg meters. CD management makes or breaks this spec (and maybe this class?).

See http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t18441-m...tional_thread/ for answers to all your questions and more!