Raiding as the only fire mage does suck. Fire has always had huge problems with trash dps -- the scorch ramp-up time coupled with ignites falling off makes for easily the worst spec possible for trash. Running 2 mages in a raid helps indefinitely stacking scorch on trash that lives long enough to matter.

Moreover, I don't know if you have COE or not. I suspect you don't given youre the only fire mage (or at least -- shouldnt get it).

WWS severely misrepresents firespec DPS. The way WWS calculates DPS, they cut the fight in 5s windows. If you deal any damage during those window, you gain 5s of dps_time. DPS = total_damage / dps_time. This means your fireball dot will dilute your dps because it will always increase your dps_time, which in returns lowers the shown DPS.

If your dps_time is below arcane mages, that means your play is really really inadequate. I don't have much else to add to that respect. Firespec will always have high dps_time due to the trailing faireball dot, which dilutes your shown DPS, but should give you near 100% dps_time. Being below arcane mages (in terms of dps_time) is just not excusable.

Popping destruction potion alone is just not worth it. If you want a simple rule of thumb, its always good when on execute range. Before that you can skip them, it won't be that much worth it, unless you really want to max your damage. Additionally, make sure you get bloodlust during execute range. This will give you a tremendous dps boost. Also, as pointed out earlier, proper cooldown stacking is the name of the game for deep fire mages.

Desturction pots are always good to use given you're not using any other mana consumeables and don't evocate ;p
If you're going to evocate as a result you should probably never use destruction potions (although with some insane stacking it could still be worth it even if it costs focing a few evocate ticks pre-execute range). The anoying thing is that destruction pots are expensive and mana potting instead of evocating feels like a total waste of gold, but if you want to max your dps that's how it's done, at least according to the rough numbers I've been running (which were far enough apart to make it probably still correct even if I have some errors).

In my opinion, evocation instead of eating mana potion is only viable on phase switching or something like that, when you have a free time.

Ztorm, Thank you for taking the time to look through my parses! Yes, you are absolutely right that I was using my CDs whenever they were up. I have my fireball macro'd to use trinkets and icy veins whenever it is up. I also have a horrible time paying attention to when a shammy puts up Heroism, as I have only had one in my group perhaps 25% of the time I raid. I can definately do more to sync things with heroism to maximize its benefit (including talking to our shammy about using a group /p notification). The execute range prediction is obviously a bit spotty, as I mentioned that a week recent Rage kill was a full minute less than the previous week. It should continue to stabilize more in the coming weeks, however. I'll plan on un-macro-ing my trinkets and icy veins in the future and pay more close attention to heroism and execute range to try and time them better.

Thanks!!!

btw, while it may seem silly, some mages actually use mage armor. I wanted to point them at this post so they start using molten armor but noticed there's nothing in the main post about it... Not is there anything about which consumeables you should use.

Well Roywyn posted this sometime ago, and it explains the trade offs between potions, and the viability of mage armor as well.

http://elitistjerks.com/570626-post1786.html

It is still possible for a mage to run OOM in a fight of decent length, even chain chugging pots and gems, if he or she is unlucky enough to be without a shadow priest or shaman, especially since the advent of spell haste.

Also, with the boost to spirit regen next patch, mage armor will return significant amounts of mana - using the formula in http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t21280-i...rycrafting_hq/, a mage with 300 spirit and 600 intellect will get approximately 100mp5 by using mage armor.

Now you may be suggesting that a mage will in fact do more damage by using molten armor, running OOM, and then wanding at full spirit regen until a gem or pot cooldown is up, compared to using mage armor and perhaps never running OOM -- thus meaning mage armor is strictly inferior regardless of your mana gain rate -- but if so I'd like to see the supporting maths (I had a crack at modelling it but failed miserably).

Going OOM and having to wand is never desirable. Almost everything that helps your mana is worth using if it prevents you from going OOM.

From what I remember, when you run OOM, you can trade 1 mp5 is worth ~ 1 dmg if you run OOM no matter what.
The exact number depends on a lot of other things, but the above is a good estimate.

That means food/flask/oil are never beneficial for a mage. The [Item not found!] isn't worth either.

Mage Armour and [Serpent-Coil Braid] are actually worth using when you run OOM spamming mana pots, gems and evocation. But that doesn't actually happen too often these days.

Just a head's up, but the three additional T6 pieces in sunwell have had 58 stamina refunded in the latest PTR version, losing a tiny bit of hit and crit. They now have a combined 29 hit rating and 11 crit rating, as opposed to the 2nd version that had 37 hit rating and 17 crit rating. Of course, given the choice, damage stats are better than stam for most fights, but I'm certainly not going to complain about this version, given the megasplash raidwide damage found in the encounters in which they drop. New mage unbuffed health in perfect gear will be 7623, up from 7053 (at least for a blood elf). Seems a fair trade as we'll actually get to wear them more often. I didn't even need the hit (regardless of spec), with my surgically attached elemental shaman, and it would be hard to notice the DPS difference from 6 less crit rating. Quite satisfied with the change.

This thread seems to indicate that all mages should hands down go fire.

Most of my mages went arcane after getting 2 piece tier 5 and stayed that way through Hyjal where it is obviously great for AOE on trash.

Here is an armory link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...all&n=Vairgoth

Obviously he would have to regem for hit, but should he go fire now? If not, when?

Here is a WWS on our last Najentus kill to give you an idea of his DPS:
WWS Loading...

I'd say that performance is pretty typical. He's in a group with a shadow priest and an elemental shaman, and we run a malediction lock.

I am very close to having all our mages go fire for its supposed superior single target DPS/mana efficiency (since we're in BT now).

Thoughts?

Generally if you have a shadowpriest and use mana gems mana pots and evocation you pretty much can't go oom. If you're (from best thing to stop doing to worst) not evocating, using flame caps and using destruction potions you can, on some fights, go oom even with a shadow priest. Since mage armor is a big dps loss and a small regen increase (at least in 2.3), unless I'm missing something, it's always the last thing you want to do if you're having mana problems. If you have mana problems stop some of the destro pots (preferably those not stacked with other cooldowns) and use super mana pots. If you're still running oom after using no destruction pots then cut out some flame caps in favor of mana gems (at least the first 3, not sure about reconjuring VS evocating, but fights are usually not long enough for it anyway). If you're using no flame caps and still going oom, evocate. To be honest further means of not going oom are never really needed as far as I can tell, so no need to swap that elemental shaman with a resto or swapping to mage armor. Ever.

The math I used to get these was kinda rough, but it seems to agree with stuff other people were doing and the differences were rather big enough for it to still be true even if you change some variables (mostly gear and cooldown stacking) - the only thing that I think can work differently than what I said above is possibly dropping an unstacked flame cap for a gem so you can use a destruction potion during flame cap+BL+IV+combustion+molten fury. However it doesn't seem like it would ever be better to evocate just so you have mana to use cap/destro pot during those - regenerating the same amount of mana as a pot+1.5Xgem by evocating seems to be losing more DPS than what you would gain by using a destro pot and a flame cap during all of those stacked abilities.

Then again with mana pots costing gold and evocation/gems/mage armor being free, you know what people are going to end up doing... Sad thing is that they do it on progression as well. I mean when was the last time you used a destruction potion?

Lawl: You must take Nickolina's data for what it is: Screenshots of DPS meters. If you lurk around you will notice that comparing one's self to other raiders without exhaustive date on both accounts is about as relevant as going "lol u hav 1456 2v2 and u claim 2 kno abot mage pvp noob?".

Unless it's a genuine WWS with correct parsings, it's merely a .jpg with some bars in. It is common consensus that unless everything is optimal and biased towards arcane and against fire (ie, no BL at 20%, no CoE, Mal-CoS etc) fire will out-peform arcane on every single-target scenario barring supremus. This is not set in stone however, and YMMV as they say. The theorycrafting and a lot of proven parsings certainly point towards it, however.

Still lost cause i have no idea what to raid with sense i love frost so much i was thinking arcane/frost but ppl tell me 10/51 is good too so. What should i use?

Nortick please use the 'search' function of the forums before you post away questions that have been answered before...

Check page 18 on this forum for discussion on the arcane/frost vs full frost spec.



Lawl

Besides the Illidan fight, if your mages spec fire, you will most likely see an increase in dmg done for the single target dps fights.

Arcane spec is still the best spec for aoeing, but tbh you should do fine without the improved crit rate anyway.

Mage

* New Improved Blink: For 2/4 (Rank 1/2) seconds after casting Blink, your chance to be hit by all attacks and spells is reduced by 25%.
* Icy Veins has been changed, instead of increasing the chance your chilling effects will Freeze the target by 10%, it will now give you 100% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting. (duration remains the same: 20 sec).

Can you tell me what this "perfect" gear is. Because I have more hp than that and everything I'd ever want pre 2.4.

Silver, I suggest you read the first page of this thread before you ask another question that's already been answered.

I read (Last updated 11/21/08) , i suppose we are in the future...

Bah nevermind.

Bah pay no attention to my post as just after posting i found the info i was looking for.

Hi i didnt read much of the replies to this sorry if i missed something like what im about to say.

I think arcane does more damage even on bosses then fire or frost with the same gear ( i dont even have the 2 peace t5 bonus yet).

i will explain how i use the arcane blast cycles and use of mana gems and pots..

I am arcane with pom pyro 49/12/0. Big advantage's: 10% hit rating in talent tree, slow for trash (and pvp), pom pyro rocks.

Trash: Arcane blast 2x. look at threat meter see if the tank is building enough, if so pom pyro. then arcane blast your ass off, with a fireblast sometimes. If there are many mobs dont arcane blast one dead turn to the next mob and let the buff off arcane blast come to 1 sec using arcane missile, then aracne blasts again.

Bosses: I haven't got it completely worked out yet becouse every boss is so deifferent.
Aracne blast 3x arcane missile 1x fireblast 1x then start over... what this does is it gets the buff of aracne blast come to 1 sec when u cast then next cycle. When u cast aracne blast at 1 sec buff it will be cast with the speed of 3 arcane blast buffs but when the spell procs the debuff is gone and the mana cost is just as if u cast it for the first time.. (think about it for a sec)
Use a macro for using mana stone and pot at ones when u hit 35% mana.. then use either evocation or the macro again at 30%. then macro at 10% and make new stone with last macro.. after this go slow (if the boss isnt dead yet) by using arcane missile 2X aracne blast 2x start over. Whe u think something is going to take very very long or something goes wrong like disrupt in evocation' use the slow cycle in the begining of the fight and strat blasting later.
when u can use pom pyro (with arcane power in the macro) instead of a fireblast.. this means your next 2 cycles will be with aracne power.

I have been fire and arcane DOES MORE DAMAGE even on bosses if u dont mind using 15-20 mana pots in one raid. (i dont its worth it)

please tell me your thoughts on this.

Khitas, I'd delete that post before anyone sees it.