You choose the two worst items to do the comparison with - theres currently a bug on the released version of that spreadsheet where the haste for the ZA boots is attributed to the PVP boots instead. See http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t10907-v...16/#post596939.

Well see the thing is I didn't even use the gear selecter, I inputed the stats right onto my character and still got the lowered DPS, am I doing something wrong?

You can try Rawr as well. Rawr - Home

I don't know much about Vontre's DPS sheet and why it bugs out for you, but your decision is a no brainer: 28 crit + 35dmg << 25haste + 50dmg.

So [Footpads of Madness]would be clearly better for you. But that's something, you shouldn't need a spreadsheet for.

For mages on Brutallus:

First, if you are getting 2 or more heroism's, how are you handling the increased threat? We're killing Brutallus in about 5:30 so I had the first heroism go at 1:30 with all my cooldowns, and then again at 20%. I was hoping this would be long enough that I could get through the first heroism without pulling aggro, but I was forced to stop and invis in the middle of the hero. I have considered the possibility of invis'ing before the first hero, but I was concerned that I might reach the aggro cap again if I did that.

Second, are you running into mana issues since gearing more towards haste? Specifically, I know I'm supposed to use mana pots > mana gems > evocate, however, is that "any" evocation, or only a full evocation. I find that I usually need 2 to 3 ticks of evocate to make it through the fight, or at least to be safe when I enter the 20% heroism. I've been using destro pots and flame caps still for cooldown stacking, and I'm wondering if I should start using mana potions instead. The shadow priest in my group usually pulls around 1400 DPS (for reference).

Invisibility during zero-cooldown time would be optimal, brutallus or no brutallus. Notioning that you'd "reach the cap again" suggests you're either talking of only a few ticks of invis or there's something seriously weird about the encounter. Consider asking for Tranquil during no-cooldown periods perhaps?

My understanding is that the ranking (mana pots > mana gems > evocate) is true for any amount of evocate, assuming you're using all the mana you get from whatever sources you choose. With each tick of evocate I'm guessing (based on your 11k mana pool, one tick every 2 seconds, etc) you're getting around 1.65k mana. So it might be possible to save on one mana pot to take just one tick of evo if you only need that much mana rather than the full 3k-ish provided by a pot or gem.

I'm sure Rawr will suggest a reasonable use of your cooldowns. I'd be interested to hear what it is - but I suspect it will tell you to swap (at least some) destro pots for mana pots & skip evo.

That would be true if you got gear upgrades but kept doing the same encounters - but as you progress into harder encounters the fight length will remain relatively constant, matching your gear upgrades.

I suspect the haste is still an improvement & you're better off just falling back to some more mana regen consumables.. (but then again, I tend to end up doing that anyway - I'm not at the top-end of progression with 'serious' shadow priests (lucky if mine manages 700 dps :/ ))

I decided to update the timestamp on that post.

Well what I was suggesting is that if I invis just before the first heroism, that I may reach the aggro cap again in the last 20%, but I think I should be OK.

O and it certainly wasn't intentional to invis during cooldowns, I just planned it wrong and had no choice.

That may be correct, but you'd be wasting an Invisibility for a few thousand threat wipe. That's false economy, given later on in the fight (I assume) you'll have an identical time when you're outputting the exact same DPS as you would at the start and not taking any damage (thus breaking it). Hence translating your invis to that later spot of "lowest dps" would be optimal. I hadn't realized you invised so early, I've never bothered to.

Has anyone attempted this? 2x 40/0/21 Mages and 1x 18/0/43 Mage, spamming Frostbolts and chugging Destro Pots may be better than 3x 7/43/11 Fire Mages.

Elemental Shaman
Boomkin
40/0/21 Mage
40/0/21 Mage
18/0/43 Mage

The Mages could potentially reach 50% crit with their Frostbolts, which may make an item like Ashtongue Talisman of Insight useful for encounters where nuke-spamming is all you do.

1. Drop your 2 pcs of T5 and replace with better items.
2. 50% Frostbolt crit is attainable.
3. In fights where nuke-spamming is all you do, Ashtongue Talisman of Insight could potentially be a great trinket.
4. The spell hit cap will be 76 for Alliance and 89 for Horde, freeing up item points for damage and spell crit.

1500 Spell Damage, 50% crit, Hit Capped, and 300 Haste is very attainable if all of the above holds true for Sunwell geared Mages.

EDIT: The stats above assume full raid buffs and debuffs, espeically : Improved Seal of the Crusader (3% Crit), Moonkin Aura (5% Crit), Inspiring Presence (1% Spell Hit), Totem of Wrath (3% Crit and 3% Spell Hit), Insight of the Ashtongue (145 Spell Haste)

First of all, why 7/43/11? Why gimp your fire mages with 5 pts in arcane focus? 2/47/11 + 1 is ways better.

2pT5 is absolutely needed. Being 40/0/21, an Arcane mage should not worry about frostbolt crits. It is nice that they crit a lot, but spamming AB is so much better. I would think due to this fact that Ashtongue Talisman of Insight would be ways inferior to other trinkets (Hex, Skull, DM:C, Icon, Muru)

Also I would think most arcane mages would reach for 10% hit so they can just put 3 pts in arcane focus and 3 pts in EP to be hit capped. Also I'd think you should never depend your DPS on a totem or aura (this has been mentioned multiple times), in theory it is fine but in practice you're gimping your self a lot and 10% is fairly easy to attain.

I'm quite sure no raid leader in his or her right mind would replace a shadow priest with a frost mage specced arcane. A shadow priest isn't brought along solely for DPS. There are obvious debuffs that they bring to the table.

Your gear comparison is wildly off the charts. You've entered in T6 4-piece bonus, but you're still using silver crescent trinket? Fire spec, as far as I have read, scales much better with damage than arcane and frost specs do. Your damage is listed at 1147. I'm using ZA/T5 level equipment (spellfire set, serpent-coil braid, hex-shrunken head, etc.) and I am at 1195 unbuffed.

Your post seems better suited for the "Help me thread" since it actually doesn't contain any information, just theories, which you yourself have said you haven't looked deeply into.

My guild is progressing through Mount Hyjal and I'm facing some questions about my DPS at this point.

As of right now with my current gear (Mazorp, US Dragonmaw for armory) I'm averaging around 1,100 DPS (give or take slightly) on bosses. I'm personally not sure if I'm keeping up with my gear level. A fellow Mage is Arcane spec and he has been hitting levels of near 1,300 DPS and our Rogue's are getting around that as well.

I've looked through Rawr and Lhivera's site for some idea of where I should be and Lhivera's site puts me about what I currently do and tweaking Rawr's "boss" settings puts me around 1,300 DPS. Could anyone give me an idea if I'm around where I should or is my DPS sub par?

Thanks for any advice and information.

Well see that IS the problem. I'm forced to either invis before the first heroism or waste DPS by either invising during the hero or slowing my dps down so I don't pull aggro because there isn't enough threat for me to make it through the heroism without pulling aggro. This is pretty much what I was hoping some other mages that have been getting multiple heroism's could tell me. I really don't think it's a tank threat problem, but maybe that's the case; that other mages are able to dps through a heroism and then invis where I was hitting the aggro cap.

Or maybe I was misleading. I wasn't suggesting I should invis during a time I would take damage and not get a full invis off, but rather just "early" as I would put it (at just before 1.5 minutes in; before the first heroism+cd stacking). What I was worried about was that it may be too early if I'm getting 2 heroism's after that, and I didn't want to reach the aggro cap at the end of the fight and pull aggro. Anyway, I guess I'll try it out next week if I get the opportunity, I was just wondering if anyone had some first hand advice about it.

Look at my armory. Lot's of mages at t6+ level still use the icon.

Very interesting. Extremely curious as to if this is a bug with pre-bc content only judging by the screenshots :P Looking forward to more info!

I managed to get my hands on enchant weapon - Deathfrost today, has anyone done any research on this enchant yet? It seems to be affected by frost talents. I am wondering if the melee attack speed debuff works on bosses. Time to test it out.

Did you notice that your damage on them was 10/13% higher?

Totally random guess: Maledicted rank 1 CoE, normal max rank CoE?

Frostbolt arcane has been researched and proven to be inferior to 2.4-AB arcane. Search the old 2.4 TC thread and see for yourself. Not only is it comparatively the suck, but you'll have to prove you're packing so much excess DPS you can carry the straggler that is the Frost spec mage, who will suffer much more than a SP on pet-unfriendly encounters and anything with much pushback.

Deathfrost: Some chap on wowhead seems to have spammed lance on Dr. Boom to a roughly 20sec CD. I feel it's more likely a 15sec internal CD, but either way, even give it can gain your crit rate's crit (which I don't see plausible, no other bolt-effect does) and assuming an average hit of 200, that's only effectively 10 damage per second. Compared to a Soulfrost, that practically adds 50~ per frostbolt, compounding for crit makes it over 25dps. The slow effect is costing too much in terms of item budget for this to seem practical.

The terrifically low mats are also hinting that it's more than likely a vague gimmick (which stands to reason as it's from a seasonal gimmicky encounter) rather than "best thing since beer".

Since quite some Paladintanks running 5mans or 10mans most of the time employ Icy Chill (can snare bosses like Thunderclap, best you can do if you don't have a Warrior in your ZA run I suppose), I heavily suspect this is a very welcome replacement for Protadins, but will be confined to them. :S

I notice everyone talks about blowing all your CDs once you get all your scorches up, but that never works for me. How it usually goes for me on a stand and DPS fight like Najentus:
1) I wait 4 seconds for a little aggro.
2) I get 5 Scorch debuffs up (3 fires Mages makes this go fast)
3) I blow my IV/Combustion/Icon macro and start Fireballs.
4) I get to 120% threat on the 3rd Fireball and have to stop, now my CDs are being wasted.

Also due to problems like this, I have difficulty putting out good DPS on these fights. I average 1200-1300 DPS which I am certain is very low with my level of gear, but I don't know what to change to allow me to get better DPS. Should I wait a bit longer? Is it something about my gear that's causing my low DPS as well? Maybe our tanks just aren't up to par with everyone else's. They usually put out between 700 and 750 TPS on a DPS race fight like Najentus or Gorefiend, but I'm not a tank and don't understand those numbers that well.