Vontre's Magegraf, advanced theorycrafting tool for mages. - Page 2

Fireye · 05/14/08, 3:11 PM

Neat site, but I have the same issue that other have, using Opera 9.5 beta. Redirects me to a hash page, and won't display anything until I try and go to that hash page manually.

Allanonn · 05/14/08, 5:32 PM

Couple of import bugs:

Armory import doesn't pick my Ruby Drape of the Mysticant.
Also doesn't pick up my Glowing Tanzanite [Glowing Tanzanite] instead placing a Runed Crimson Spindel in there.

Finally, seems there is something weird going on with the Blade of Twisted Visions. Whenever I add this item to my gearset (from the mindblade), the dps goes down while the end mana number goes way up.

• Sservis · 05/18/08, 12:25 PM

Any plans to include relative stat values as part of the simulation? While it's possible to do manually by running different sims at +n damage, +n haste, +n crit, +n int, etc it would be nice if the simulator automatically kicked out the results.

Zalbo · 05/18/08, 1:21 PM

When importing, [Fluorescent Tanzanite] are changed to runed spiniels, as are [Purified Shadowsong Amethyst] (Rawr at least lists both of these better than +10 spirit for blue gem slots)

EDIT: Might be worth putting an option for [Adept's Elixir] and [Elixir of Draenic Wisdom], as for arcane spec's it is usually better.
Also [Seer's Chrysoprase] is listed as better than the crafted gems in rawr for me as well.

Goedel · 05/18/08, 1:47 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

http://www.magegraf.com/index.php?ha...1777c3baf57c82

I don't play a mage, so I accept that it's not the optimal gear. I took the best pieces for a warlock from Sunwell and used Tempest 4-piece instead of Malefic(bracers, belt, boots, shoulders). Frost barely looses to Fire/Cold Snap, and is only a bit farther behind Fire. Beats every other mage spec there.

There are a couple problems translating from warlock gear. One is that you've kept too much hit rating, as the Elemental Precision talent allows one to drop more. A relatively minor quibble is that the best Sunwell+t6 mage choices are slightly different. (I get the cowl as the best piece to keep for 4-set, in Rawr.) Finally, you kept Soulfrost on the weapon, which explains the relatively high performance of frost specs. Switch to +40 generic spell damage for even comparisons.

A bit more important basic information for using the tool: There is no generic gearing that works at the same level for the mage specs being compared. If the tool models the long-standing bug wherein Elemental Precision gives 6% hit to Frostbolt (rather than the stated 3%), frost specs will properly gear less hit than fire. And all arcane specs should gear less hit as well as valuing intellect and spirit much more highly, which are of less use to an elemental spec. Even switching to the right weapon enchantment, you'll see frost ahead of arcane specs with elemental gearing.

Espera · 05/18/08, 4:25 PM

i just tested the site, and i think i get the 2-piece spellstrike bonus accounted, although i´m not a tailor.
Perhaps you could add an option for the user to choose wether he is tailor or not.

Also i still have to find out the meaning of the "graf" (beside being a wonderful graf, of course)

Nevertheless, thank you for your work

Roywyn · 05/18/08, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

http://www.magegraf.com/index.php?ha...1777c3baf57c82

I don't play a mage, so I accept that it's not the optimal gear. I took the best pieces for a warlock from Sunwell and used Tempest 4-piece instead of Malefic(bracers, belt, boots, shoulders). Frost barely looses to Fire/Cold Snap, and is only a bit farther behind Fire. Beats every other mage spec there.

http://www.magegraf.com/index.php?ha...89e91b3ff78441
With a +40 damage enchant. fire is 94 DPS ahead of frost. Noticable, but not much (4-5%).

Minor comments have been made on gearing, but that doesn't change much if you just want a decent comparison.
Frost actually benefits as you can drop even more +hit.

You did however chose a 600 second (10 minute) fight, which isn't really representative.
T5 fights are long but have downtime (no mana spent, even some regen), T6 fights are short, Sunwell fight have 6 minutes as a good measure I think.
In your case, Fire used Evocation, Frost did not. Another 10s loss.

Also, in a 10s fight, you can cold snap twice, giving frost another set of cooldowns.

If you check the spell detail options:

Fireball (2/48/11) 2283 dps
Frostbolt (10/0/51) 2066 dps
// Waterbolt (10/0/51) 1471 dps

Fire is ~10% ahead of frost. Waterbolt is completely out of whack though (going to file some report).
The pet is listed to use your hit/crit/haste/talents, and your spell damage.
It hits for ~1k, crits for ~1.5, not 2.3k and 4.8k like the sim suggests ...

Frost has the disadvage that it has no pushback protection, lower maximal range.
And water elemental gets oneshot by just about any random damage ability. It has 3-4k HP and I've seen it die before it got a cast off quite a few times. Also, it doesn't properly chain cast. Waterbolt has a 2.5s cast time, but in proper logs it's being cast every ~3 seconds.

http://www.magegraf.com/index.php?ha...15816522e62606
300 mp5 SP, 360s fight time, destro pots/flame caps, and we're at a 160 DPS difference.

Fire still uses evocation. But it only needs a few ticks of it, especially if you swap to mana pots/gems, so fire does even some more damage if you reduce the Evocation downtime from 10s to 2s or 4s.

Just to illustrate how copmlex it is to judge specs with a simulator.

thescreensavers · 05/18/08, 9:43 PM

It is also Missing the gem "Forceful Seaspray Emerald"

winkiller · 05/18/08, 11:48 PM

I just got ~15 Arcane Blast as the first spells in rotation for a T4/T5 geared Arcane/Fire Mage.
Will try to reproduce, but this looked totally whacky. Without all buffs/debuffs it went back to a sane rotation.

Still a nice tool, will play around a bit with it

Vontre · 05/19/08, 2:57 PM

Oh, frost being listed as better than non-fire builds? This is normal. You have to fuck with your gear a lot to make anything else work. Frost is a pretty good alternative to fire, I'm actually using it for progression Sunwell content right now.

I'll take a look at the IE thing right now. I couldn't list every possible gem, for a couple of those you'll just have to approximate a second-best. Spinels will give you pretty much the same dps as anything else, anyway, would only be a few points off at most.

Vontre · 05/19/08, 3:12 PM

Just hotfixed the IE issue, it should work now.

Vontre · 05/19/08, 3:12 PM

Originally Posted by winkiller

I just got ~15 Arcane Blast as the first spells in rotation for a T4/T5 geared Arcane/Fire Mage.

This is normal. Optimal arcane play no longer involves rotations.

Canyc · 05/21/08, 4:41 PM

Any chance you could add brilliant wizard oil alongside superior wizard oil?

Tamraine · 05/22/08, 8:01 PM

I don't have anything constructive to say, but I'd like to offer my thanks to you for making this tool. I find it interesting to play around with.

chase · 05/22/08, 8:25 PM

Originally Posted by Vontre

Just hotfixed the IE issue, it should work now.

Did not work with me and IE7. (Did the bounce between hash and magegraph too infinity) Worked fine on Mozilla.

Searix · 05/22/08, 8:30 PM

Please add spec 33/28/0, which has been shown to be the same or more dps. Also, please correctly model poming pyroblast

hypetech · 05/22/08, 9:51 PM

Originally Posted by chase

Did not work with me and IE7. (Did the bounce between hash and magegraph too infinity) Worked fine on Mozilla.

Having this same issue on IE7 and it seems to work fine in Firefox.

Vontre · 05/23/08, 10:01 PM

I think the IE bug is fixed now.

I also added a new view option, Stat Analyzer, which compares the effectiveness of different stats. It even has a NEW GRAF.

Lhivera · 05/23/08, 10:42 PM

Wow! This thing's amazing! And for the record, it works fine in Safari.

You, sir, have obsoleted my TCoM!

weet · 05/24/08, 12:10 AM

Would you be able to add the Sapphiron enchant: [Power of the Scourge]

Thanks

FarrahFeonix · 05/24/08, 2:31 AM

I never thanked you for putting this together. It took a lot of work and effort and I understand that this is still a work in progress. So thank you. Also , while you're putting up the 33/28/0, "Airman's Ribbon of Gallantry " would be nice

Zephriel · 05/24/08, 5:51 AM

Originally Posted by Vontre

I haven't gotten around to prettying up some of those outputs, so I'll explain them. The effect timing outputs a list of all active buffs at every spell interval, so it's not related to activation times. I still haven't gotten around to forcing the timers on trinkets to not stack, but it's a relatively minor effect. As for the missing items, I'll have to take a look at the armory import queries to figure out why they're missing.

Vontre, thanks for all the work you've put into this. It's truly a spectacular tool.

If I'm reading the effect timing section properly, Magegraf sometimes doesn't save Icy Veins and Combustion for the <20% HP (molten fury) zone. For example, running the simulator for 2/48/11 for a 3-minute fight:

http://www.magegraf.com/index.php?ha...1c3f97fd87a11d

It appears that IV/Combustion are used towards the very beginning of the fight (6.57) instead of being stacked with other cooldowns in the MF zone (138.99?). Could this potentially diminish the accuracy of the sim for deep fire builds?

xiaoxin21 · 05/24/08, 1:41 PM

Vontre: Tried the site and it is great, but is there a way to enable the X-Y axis labeling for the graphs, Currently using IE and it is showing the graphs for each spec but X and Y is not labelled.

Also for neck-piece wise: It is missing brooch of nature mercy from ZA and shroud of the highborne from Illidan for cloak. I am aware they are healing gear but it could be very good for some specs like brooch of nature mercy for arcane.

Also on wish list: Able to select drum uptime and number of innervates.

Lrac · 05/24/08, 4:55 PM

I'm a warlock with early BT gear.

When i run my gear and raidbuffs in leulier's spreadsheet, fire beats shadow with about 150 dps (personal). But when i input the same gear and buffs in the magegraf, shadow beat fire with about 50 dps (personal).

Any idea how this is possible? It's quite a lot, are one of u using wrong cycle or something?

agoat · 05/24/08, 5:15 PM

Could you explain the numbers next to the stat when looking at Stat analysis. I get that the bigger the number the more you want that stat but I am having difficulty understanding what that damn number means.