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Old 09/18/08, 6:31 PM   #1726
Xentropy
Don Flamenco
 
Human Mage
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Ivorthemage View Post
Seeking clarity on FoF, as the descriptions here seem to be at odds with the talent description on MMO ("gives your chill effects"):

1) So FoF no longer procs off of ice lance spam, or it still does?
2) You can now get an FoF proc off of ice armor?
3) FoF procs in tandem with frostbite, and only in tandem? That is, I will only get FoF procs on spells/effects that currently proc frostbite, and I then get to choose whether to attack the frostbitten target, or a different target (burning FoF)?
4) I can use FoF on a spell of any school, including brain freezed fireballs?
1) Does not.
2) Yes.
3) Yes. Functionally the procs appear to be on a one-roll system, such that if both are maxed they will always both proc.
4) Yes. Caveat is even moten armor procs burn charges right now, which I hope can be added as an exception since it's a waste of a charge.

Originally Posted by Sydtrack View Post
So.. now FoF is not working on bosses anymore? And FoF is useless with Frostbolt Glyph?
Please read the thread you're replying to. This has been covered. FoF will proc just fine on bosses, and is in fact the intention of the talent. It (and Frostbite) also proc on Glyphed Frostbolts.

Functionally, read "your chill effects" do something as "your spells that under normal circumstances against a normal mob cause a chill effect" do something. Frostbite procs on bosses, too, you just get an Immune popup and it fails to "stick". Since FoF sticks to YOU, not the boss, it procs and works.

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Old 09/18/08, 6:44 PM   #1727
Malfeas
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Drak'thul
Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
Why not have arcane barrage consume a 3-stack debuff and do a lot more damage in the process. That way it's worth casting for the increased damage and to drop the debuff. Arcane missiles should sustain the debuff. Perhaps that way the three second debuff could be kept with arcane barrage a large damage method of dropping it. (potentially casting arcane missiles rather than AB straight after barrage could keep the debuff up as long as you wanted before dropping)

We need some kind of system. Right now we have a nerf and no system to make up for it.
I would LOVE this kind of a mechanic. Balancing it in terms of damage and mana costs could be a bit difficult, but I think this kind of a system would be the most interesting and fun casting mechanic in the game.

Last edited by Malfeas : 09/18/08 at 6:58 PM.

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Old 09/18/08, 6:58 PM   #1728
Enthorn
Don Flamenco
 
Enthorn's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Dunemaul
PTR is now on build 8962, however, Flamestrike still shows as a 3 second cast in the tooltip. I can't look in combat log because combat log isn't recording anything.

Firestarter -is- working, but it doesn't give you any buff to indicate it, much like Fiery Payback.

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Old 09/18/08, 7:03 PM   #1729
Evalara
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Shyzyhra View Post
I got the impression that the shoulder inscriptions were actually meant for enchanters.

From MMO-Champion on 09/06:



Also, inscriptions are the name of shoulder enchants already in the game before they ever envisioned the inscription profession.

Am I just reading all of this wrong?
It seems like spells (if you look closely those are spells, not items) that use ink as a reagent are more likely to be Inscription than Enchanting.

And on the topic of Inscription being more powerful than other professions, in addition to that 40 spellpower you get another glyph, which may seal the deal depending on what the final glyph lineup looks like.

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Old 09/18/08, 7:04 PM   #1730
Kyriani
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Argent Dawn
Since blizz is trying to encourage more dynamic play I'd personally like to see them make the damage buff from arcane blast lower and the mana increase less severe...

then make arcane barrage give you a small damage buff for arcane blast for a short time..

and finally extend the duration of the AB debuff

doing this will encourage weaving arcane barrage into AB rotations for it's damage buff

the longer debuff timer allows us to actually weave spells such as arcane barrage and missile barrage procs into AB without losing the debuff.

The dynamic play blizz wants is now there and can lead to viable dps rotations once blizz sorts out the numbers.

If they would do this I'd be very happy.

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Old 09/18/08, 8:04 PM   #1731
Odin
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Alleria
Fun fact: You can buff your own Water Elemental with Focus Magic and get the 3% crit buff when it crits

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Old 09/18/08, 8:08 PM   #1732
Lgs
Piston Honda
 
Lgs's Avatar
 
Goblin Mage
 
Terenas
If focus magic stacks with other crit talents, we may be back to stacking class, no? (Since it's 1 mage for 1 buff) At the very least, this needs to be taken into account.

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Old 09/18/08, 9:05 PM   #1733
Shadout
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
One issue I havent seen brought up much is the good ol' 'Playing with Fire'. Sure, it gives 3% dmg, but its still feels like a badly balanced talent. I dont know what to do with it, maybe a 2pointer: 4% dmg, 2% spelldmg taken? Or 3% dmg/1%taken etc. Just something. Right now its a talent you feel you have to take in the fire tree, but also feel a bit awkward about having.
I can understand the concept, its the glass cannon materialized through a talent, but the reward/risk-ratio seems wrong.
Do people feel its a good enough talent?

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Old 09/18/08, 9:19 PM   #1734
Smoggers
Von Kaiser
 
Smoggers's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Frostwolf
Originally Posted by Shadout View Post
One issue I havent seen brought up much is the good ol' 'Playing with Fire'. Sure, it gives 3% dmg, but its still feels like a badly balanced talent. I dont know what to do with it, maybe a 2pointer: 4% dmg, 2% spelldmg taken? Or 3% dmg/1%taken etc. Just something. Right now its a talent you feel you have to take in the fire tree, but also feel a bit awkward about having.
I can understand the concept, its the glass cannon materialized through a talent, but the reward/risk-ratio seems wrong.
Do people feel its a good enough talent?
It could be 3% dmg/9% dmg taken and I would still take Playing With Fire.

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Old 09/18/08, 9:24 PM   #1735
Jonny_Monroe
Don Flamenco
 
Jonny_Monroe's Avatar
 
Draenei Priest
 
Auchindoun (EU)
Originally Posted by Lgs View Post
If focus magic stacks with other crit talents, we may be back to stacking class, no? (Since it's 1 mage for 1 buff) At the very least, this needs to be taken into account.
in terms of the potential in a raid, 3% crit for 2 players is a drop in the ocean. If you're worried about unique abilities with stacking potential then you might as well also argue against the mana returns on the water elemental or the value of combat res. The truth is, the strength of the talent is good for the class/spec using it, but it won't make the raid stack for more of it (plus, we don't even know how effectively it stacks with itself... can you have the buff and the proc on yourself at the same time - eg, 2 mages cast it on each other?)

OMNOMNOM.

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Old 09/18/08, 9:33 PM   #1736
Copernicus
Bald Bull
 
Copernicus's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Evalara View Post
It seems like spells (if you look closely those are spells, not items) that use ink as a reagent are more likely to be Inscription than Enchanting.

And on the topic of Inscription being more powerful than other professions, in addition to that 40 spellpower you get another glyph, which may seal the deal depending on what the final glyph lineup looks like.
Glyph Mastery is no longer in the spell database.

The shoulder enchants from Inscription are comparable to other profession perks - except for the insanity that is Leatherworker's Fur Lining (assuming Leatherworkers keep their epic BoP leg armor enchants).

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Old 09/18/08, 9:42 PM   #1737
Shadout
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Smoggers View Post
It could be 3% dmg/9% dmg taken and I would still take Playing With Fire.
Yes, I kinda said that, we will take it because it min-max out dps. That wasnt the point however.
Its somewhat like the frostbolt glyph, Its a dmg gain, thus we take it. But it doesn't necessarily make it good (and since we will arguably be balanced after having these dmg gains, its not like you get some craazy dmg buff you wouldnt have got elsewhere :P)

Last edited by Shadout : 09/18/08 at 9:48 PM.

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Old 09/19/08, 12:25 AM   #1738
Faxmonkey
Piston Honda
 
Troll Mage
 
Blackrock
I notice that there's already a thread complaining about the single roll on Frostbite + Fingers of Frost on the beta forums. I imagine Blizzard made this change as a quick and dirty way of fixing the "Frostbite consumes a charge of Fof" bug. Whatever the reason, I hope they don't listen to complainers and keep it the way it is. It's great. It's much better this way, once you get used to it and realize how obscenely often your Frostbite is broken instantly. Knowing you *always* have that back-up is very useful -- and knowing that when your frostbite DOES NOT get broken that you can spend the entire 4 seconds running away instead of spamming ice lance is priceless.

Rogue CloS's your Frostbite, you wait 5 seconds and hit him with Deep Freeze. Good times. I encourage anyone who's not in love with the idea to do some Batttlegrounds and try it out for a bit. You'll come to love it like I do. I made a post about it here: World of Warcraft (English) Forums -> [Feedback] Fingers of Frost

At any rate, another brilliant consequence of this change is that by putting ONE point into Imp Blizzard, you can basically get a permanant +50% crit when AoEing. It would be virtually impossible to let a full Cast of Blizzard go on more than one mob and not have a Fingers of Frost proc at some point. We're talking 15% per mob per wave (since its linked to frostbite). So basically each Blizzard gets that +50% except the initial cast.

Request for testing: If someone has time, try to determine if the +50% crit from FoF kicks in instantly after a proc during mid-blizzard (like the old +30% to crit from clearcasting on Arcane missiles) or if you actually have to have the buff when you start the cast for it to work.

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Old 09/19/08, 12:31 AM   #1739
manly
Soda Popinski
 
manly's Avatar
 
Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
I posted a possible fix to allow elementalist specs to exist. The thread didn't pick up much speed, although that probably in part due to the poor title.

I do strongly believe in this issue. Basically, FFB absolutely requires Burnout and Ice Shards in order to even function. As a result os that, FFB almost always invariantly ends up going 0/51/20 (in major part due to burnout position in the tree). If Blizzard really wants to allow elementalist specs to exist, they will have to move Burnout much below down the fire tree. As long as you can't pick up both Spell Power and Burnout in the same spec it shouldn't really matter much that Burnout gets moved down.

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Restructuring the trees to allow elementalist

What I propose here is rather radical. I wonder if other people feel the same way.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

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Old 09/19/08, 12:48 AM   #1740
Faxmonkey
Piston Honda
 
Troll Mage
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by manly View Post
I posted a possible fix to allow elementalist specs to exist. The thread didn't pick up much speed, although that probably in part due to the poor title.

I do strongly believe in this issue. Basically, FFB absolutely requires Burnout and Ice Shards in order to even function. As a result os that, FFB almost always invariantly ends up going 0/51/20 (in major part due to burnout position in the tree). If Blizzard really wants to allow elementalist specs to exist, they will have to move Burnout much below down the fire tree. As long as you can't pick up both Spell Power and Burnout in the same spec it shouldn't really matter much that Burnout gets moved down.

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Restructuring the trees to allow elementalist

What I propose here is rather radical. I wonder if other people feel the same way.
I would propose an even more radical change. Allow it to benefit from Improved/Empowered Frostbolt/Fireball. You can't get *both* empowered talents, but you could get both improved talents. That might be a bit much, so maybe just the 2 improved talents. That gives it a 2 second cast time with a 3 second coeffecient. That lets it scale slightly faster than Fireball (with empowered talent) but not too much faster and with a lower base damage.

That might make it too good, I suppose, but we're sort of stuck in a position where the spell is either going to be too good or too bad. Either its a mages primary raid dps spell or it's useless. There's very little room for middle ground with a spell like that. I'd rather see it slightly too good than totally unused.

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