WotLK - Complete Mage Compendium (3.3.3 live) - Page 162

Zaldinar · 11/06/08, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by Volde

Has anyone tested it out?

I was going to work on that today, since the Beta servers are down and I'm specced fire live. The basic timeline for it is:

0.0 - FB 1 starts
3.0 - FB 1 finishes, FB 2 starts
4.0 - FB 1 lands, crits, 1 charge on Hot Streak
6.0 - FB 2 finishes, FB 3 starts
7.0 - FB 2 lands, crits, 2 charges on Hot Streak, proc up
9.0 - FB 3 finishes, Scorch starts
10.0 - FB 3 lands, crits, 1 charge on new Hot Streak
10.5 - Scorch finishes, Pyro 1 cast request
10.X - Scorch lands, crits, 2 charges on Hot Streak, proc up
12.0 - Pyro 2 cast request

The real deciding factor here is (I think) the GCD from that scorch. If you precast it over FB3, you should be able to get the Pyro in the air to consume the buff before the second buff comes back to you. This will be latency dependent and tricky to pull off.

Edit: I was just able to pull off a FB->FB->FB->SC->Pyro and maintained the second hotstreak buff. more data inbound when I futz around with the log some more.

T+0.000 - Fireball 1 Crit
11/6 12:45:08.288  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,0xF130001358004FF0,"Theramore Combat Dummy",0x10a28,38692,"Fireball",0x4,40\
20,4019,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil

T+2.924 - Fireball 2 Crit
11/6 12:45:11.212  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,0xF130001358004FF0,"Theramore Combat Dummy",0x10a28,38692,"Fireball",0x4,38\
71,3870,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil

T+3.124 - Gain Hotstreak
11/6 12:45:11.412  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,48108,"Hot Streak",0x1,BUFF

T+5.881 - Fireball 3 Crit
11/6 12:45:14.169  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,0xF130001358004FF0,"Theramore Combat Dummy",0x10a28,38692,"Fireball",0x4,39\
15,3914,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil

T+6.215 - Lose Hot Streak 1
11/6 12:45:14.503  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,48108,"Hot Streak",0x1,BUFF

T+6.319 - Scorch Crit
11/6 12:45:14.607  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,0xF130001358004FF0,"Theramore Combat Dummy",0x10a28,27074,"Scorch",0x4,1532\
,1531,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil

T+6.718 - Gain Hot Streak 2
11/6 12:45:15.006  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,48108,"Hot Streak",0x1,BUFF

T+7.421 - Pyroblast 1
11/6 12:45:15.709  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,0xF130001358004FF0,"Theramore Combat Dummy",0x10a28,33938,"Pyroblast",0x4,2\
536,2535,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil

T+11.878 - Lose Hot Streak 2
11/6 12:45:20.166  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,48108,"Hot Streak",0x1,BUFF

T+13.100 - Pyroblast 2
11/6 12:45:21.388  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0000000000467E42,"Zaldinar",0x511,0xF130001358004FF0,"Theramore Combat Dummy",0x10a28,33938,"Pyroblast",0x4,2\
610,2609,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil

So yes, it is doable, and as I guessed it seems to be based on precasting the scorch to get its GCD ticking early, so you can precast the first Pyro on top of it so it consumes the buff as quickly as possible, basically before the scorch damage event makes it back to you with the new buff, you need to consume the first one.

Chenz · 11/06/08, 1:45 PM

If I'm not mistaken, Roywyn is referring to mps as mana (gained) per second. Look how mps increases with more crit due to Master of Elements and Hot Streak on fire specs. A negative mps would then mean more mana lost/second.

cerebes · 11/06/08, 1:54 PM

Roywyn is referring to the fact that as your haste increases you cast more spells in a given period of time. As more spells are cast in a shorter period of time mana is used faster per second.

Zaldinar · 11/06/08, 1:57 PM

Originally Posted by cerebes

Roywyn is referring to the fact that as your haste increases you cast more spells in a given period of time. As more spells are cast in a shorter period of time mana is used faster per second.

More mana used in a period of time is a higher Mana Per Second, not a lower Mana Per Second, that's the point of clarification.

Originally Posted by Chenz

If I'm not mistaken, Roywyn is referring to mps as mana (gained) per second. Look how mps increases with more crit due to Master of Elements and Hot Streak on fire specs. A negative mps would then mean more mana lost/second.

That seems more likely yeah, its a bit counter-intuitive being arranged in that wya.

Sakku · 11/06/08, 1:59 PM

There is a bug with Arcane Potency's "new mechanic".

Slow consums Arcane potency's buff

edit: in fact, any "attack" spell consums the buff (counterspell, slow, etc). but not other spells like water, bread, etc.

Roywyn · 11/06/08, 2:17 PM

Originally Posted by Zaldinar

Edit: Roywyn, there's a thread over on the US Mage forums (World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Lhiveria baffles me (haste/mps)) with a question about the first post of this thread (for some reason they think you're Lhivera, aswell).

What do you mean by -MPS when associated with haste? Logic would seem to me that if I have a 300 mana spell that has a 3 second cast time I use 100 Mana Per Second, if I add enough haste to make it a 1.5 second spell, I use 200 mana per second, meaning MPS should rise with haste, not fall. Unless I'm using the wrong acronym decoding of MPS, that is.

DPS and MPS and damage/mana per second indeed.
I'm viewing it from the "what do I gain" perspective, like in the previous 2.4 Fire Mage Mana Guide.

When I gem for +120 SP, I gain +150 DPS.
When I gems for +100 Spi, I gain +30 MPS.
When I gem +100 Crit, I gain +100 DPS and I also gain +5 MPS.
When I gem +100 Haste, I gain +150 DPS but I lose -20 MPS.
* All numbers are completely fictional.

The -MPS loss there is the extra mana spent per second due to haste.
The +MPS gains are the additional gains from MoE, or from spirit regen.
For intellect, the gains also include the extra mana from your mana pool, JoW, Replenishment, more MoE procs due to crit, and Evocation if you use it.

It's probably a bit confusing. I'm using this slightly odd system because it makes other things easier to weight:
Using Evocation means you lose -X DPS because you lose cast time, and you gain +Y MPS from Evocation itself and from not spending mana on spell during Evocation.

It's all very clear and intuitive from my perspective!
No, really, it's probably confusing if you haven't read the mana guide.
I'm not sure either whether flagging specs with -MPS as "3500 DPS, -205 MPS - Fireball spam" would have helped.

I hope that cleared it up though

Originally Posted by Sakku

There is a bug with Arcane Potency's "new mechanic".
Slow consums Arcane potency's buff

Critical Slows! Oh oh! The possibilities!

Zaldinar · 11/06/08, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

It's probably a bit confusing. I'm using this slightly odd system because it makes other things easier to weight:
Using Evocation means you lose -X DPS because you lose cast time, and you gain +Y MPS from Evocation itself and from not spending mana on spell during Evocation.

It's all very clear and intuitive from my perspective!
No, really, it's probably confusing if you haven't read the mana guide.
I'm not sure either whether flagging specs with -MPS as "3500 DPS, -205 MPS - Fireball spam" would have helped.

I hope that cleared it up though

Makes perfect sense, just not to the casual observer, the sign is the overall point of confusion, it seems backwards, but when explained as 'mana gained per second' it makes sense.

Arnath · 11/06/08, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by Xentropy

The short answer is there is no value to the Lightweave Embroidery or Engineering haste enchants.

Do you mean this in an overall sense or just that it has less value than the gains from Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing right now? If you are talking overall, why does the Lightweave Embroidery have no value for mages?

mako · 11/06/08, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Arnath

Do you mean this in an overall sense or just that it has less value than the gains from Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing right now? If you are talking overall, why does the Lightweave Embroidery have no value for mages?

IIRC haste to cloak is superior to lightweave, similar to how a standard spellpower enchant to gloves being better than the haste burst from engineering.

Chaboi · 11/06/08, 2:56 PM

Ive fiddled with the numbers a little bit, and after constant changing of gems between spellpower and crit, I still have not been able to decide which one actually gives more DPS. I am spec'd fire and rely heavily on hotstreak. Is there a magic number of crit where it exceeds the dps of Spellpower? If so what % and would the decrease in spellpower from my crit gems negate the benefit?

Jonny_Monroe · 11/06/08, 3:39 PM

Originally Posted by mako

IIRC haste to cloak is superior to lightweave, similar to how a standard spellpower enchant to gloves being better than the haste burst from engineering.

Does this take into consideration the potential of cooldown stacking for arcane? Rocket Gloves + AP + Trinkets could end up packing a punch.

Prandur · 11/06/08, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by Chaboi

Ive fiddled with the numbers a little bit, and after constant changing of gems between spellpower and crit, I still have not been able to decide which one actually gives more DPS. I am spec'd fire and rely heavily on hotstreak. Is there a magic number of crit where it exceeds the dps of Spellpower? If so what % and would the decrease in spellpower from my crit gems negate the benefit?

When you hit 80 in wotlk, you will definitely want spellpower over crit or haste. Crit and haste will become more important once you get enough spellpower from new gear.

Gediablo · 11/06/08, 6:04 PM

I wondered if anyone tested how Deathfrost works with Torment the Weak. As far as I know Deathfrost works on non-frostimmune bosses. I can't remember seeing anyone testing it.
Edit: Tested it myself. Deastfrost doesn't have any effect Torment the Weak on normal mobs at all.

Copernicus · 11/06/08, 6:08 PM

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [Mage] Status Update Please?

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

* Ignite - Unfortunately, they are apples and oranges with regard to fixes. Ignite sometimes munching charges has a lot to do with Internet lag. We just can't always tell when one hit lands a split second before another one. We are still working on it though because it's a cool talent. I know I have personally answered this question many times, so I'm surprised you couldn't find that answer.

* Blink - If we can fix the problem with slopes and minor obstructions that will apply to both talents. Disengage has some additional bugs that Blink doesn't have.

* Spirit - Strength is a throw away stat. Spirit benefits you, just not as much as you'd like. We're talking a lot about all of the "converts one stat into another talents." Many of those were implemented to solve problems with different specs sharing gear. We're not sure we want to go down the road of providing talents to convert every second tier stat into a primary stat. That list would get long.

* Arcane in PvE - We would like to give you a new rotation mostly because Arcane Blast doesn't really work in PvE and because the PvP "rotation" seems to be: something -> something -> bored -> ARCANE BARRAGE!

* Frost in PvE - You have some. If you mean in PvE, we would like to provide some. The two things standing in our way at the moment are: 1) Frost PvE dps is already high, so we would have to nerf it in order to build it back up through combos (which seems to be fine with a lot of Frost mages, but isn't the highest priority ATM because the issue is "not interesting enough" instead of "broken"), and 2) Frost Bolt just does more damage than Ice Lance. If we buff Ice Lance, then PvP shatters are too high. So we need to rebuild the spells and talents to make the whole thing work -- it's not an easy fix. But it's something we want to do.

...

I got nothing. It seems like GC is saying mages are locked in right now and they recognize all the issues, but they aren't going to work on fixes for them now.

The most disappointing one for me is spirit- I don't want to look for spirit on my gear, but at least it would be nice for me to acknowledge the stat still exists.

Lyer · 11/06/08, 6:52 PM

Originally Posted by Copernicus

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [Mage] Status Update Please?

...

I got nothing. It seems like GC is saying mages are locked in right now and they recognize all the issues, but they aren't going to work on fixes for them now.

The most disappointing one for me is spirit- I don't want to look for spirit on my gear, but at least it would be nice for me to acknowledge the stat still exists.

I think the important thing is that they recognize the issues, as opposed to them thinking we're full of crap (i.e. damage tax). I really do think those things will not be easy fixes and with the xpac imminent, I'm sure their attention is pretty much focused elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised with a big mage mechanic overhaul a patch or two down the line after wrath.

Akston · 11/06/08, 7:16 PM

In response to the whole issue with IL be bad even on a third ghost charge with sufficient gear what if they made IL only proc things like FoF and brain freeze when it is hitting a frozen target? It keeps people from fishing for procs with IL in pvp and it increases IL's viability in pve shatter combos.

solbergb · 11/06/08, 7:28 PM

Originally Posted by Chaboi

Ive fiddled with the numbers a little bit, and after constant changing of gems between spellpower and crit, I still have not been able to decide which one actually gives more DPS. I am spec'd fire and rely heavily on hotstreak. Is there a magic number of crit where it exceeds the dps of Spellpower? If so what % and would the decrease in spellpower from my crit gems negate the benefit?

At level 70, at the gear levels and ratings we've got now, for various deep fire specs, the amount of crit you can shift by gemming doesn't seem to have a lot of impact on DPS compared to gemming for spellpower or haste. At least that's what the formulas I've been able to come up with say. Mine are only for simple rotations, not the kind of fight simulation RAWR or Magegraf does. Given that we're down to less than a week before Wrath, I'd leave my gem situation alone if I was you.

Roywyn · 11/06/08, 7:32 PM

Originally Posted by Xentropy

The short answer is there is no value to the Lightweave Embroidery or Engineering haste enchants.

As for the gathering professions, herbalism is arguably the best with the ability to collect consumable seeds which require herbalism and give an average of 33.33 spellpower (200SP for 10 seconds with a one minute cooldown and no limit per-combat;

I'm still looking at Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket - Spell - World of Warcraft for engineering.
If it is affected by fire talents, it'll likely end up pretty competitive with other professions.

There is however one comment claiming that it's on the GCD.
No other verification, no mention what kind of GCD.

Fire Seeds look good on paper, you can get a little bit more out of them through cooldown stacking.
They require constant constant farming for progression though and are found only in 1 place of 1 level 70 zone.
It reminds me to much of the "6 minutes = 3 pots + 2 caps" clockwork chugging.
Or Paladins looking at Dark/Demonic Runes.

My biggest gripe and uncertainty however is that they don't work all.
They don't do anything when clicked. They didn't do anything when clicked half a year ago.
Are they even intended to work? Are they maybe only intended for level 70 player? Or capped?

Has anyone ever had [Fire Seed]s work or heard anything about them?
The best profession choice is probably "JC + Scribe" to start, and when you reach exalted with Sons of Hodir, when they finally hear about [Fire Seed]s being broken and fix them and when epic gems become available you change to "Smith + Herber".

Sound plan, isn't it?

* Frost in PvE - You have some. If you mean in PvE, we would like to provide some. The two things standing in our way at the moment are: 1) Frost PvE dps is already high, so we would have to nerf it in order to build it back up through combos (which seems to be fine with a lot of Frost mages, but isn't the highest priority ATM because the issue is "not interesting enough" instead of "broken"), and 2) Frost Bolt just does more damage than Ice Lance. If we buff Ice Lance, then PvP shatters are too high. So we need to rebuild the spells and talents to make the whole thing work -- it's not an easy fix. But it's something we want to do.

This really makes it look like they are doing their test without a full raid environment.

Frost DPS isn't really low per se without buffs. Massive Spell Power and particularly Crit buffs/debuffs massively favour (Frost)Fire specs over Frost.
Or Arcane for that matter. They only way they could see Arcane Blast fillers competitive was low crit and low stats.

Or Elemental Shaman. Lava Burst hits like a truck and always crits. Which means it doesn't scale with crit at all (like the Flame Shock DoT) and the Scaling is horribly low.
If Muphric ever finds out it "Base:Coeffecient" ratio we'll probably have to reanimate him.

Destruction Warlocks scale 80% better with Spell Power than Elemental Shaman.
I'm rerunning Simcraft at another +1k SP, +300 Crit, +200 Haste, +200 Int now. Taking bets on results.

[Edit]: It seems like it didn't actually change much at all.
Okay one change. When pushing up stats, Frost can now outdamage Elemental even without Torment.
There is some bug that kills one of my Water Elementals though (2 minutes instead of 3 minutes uptime in a 5m fight).
Destruction is still roughly in the same place on meters as before, oddly. And still has the highest SP scaling.

manly · 11/06/08, 7:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lyer

I think the important thing is that they recognize the issues, as opposed to them thinking we're full of crap (i.e. damage tax). I really do think those things will not be easy fixes and with the xpac imminent, I'm sure their attention is pretty much focused elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised with a big mage mechanic overhaul a patch or two down the line after wrath.

Why would they do a major mechanic overhaul for mages ?

Most of the bugs and whines are unwarranted and are mostly minor annoyances. Nothing that can realistically justify such a move. The only issue I could see is mana as a whole (or rather, lack of spammable regen option). Only removing the cooldowns on evocation would fix most of the issue, although normally a dps rebalancing is normally meant to go hand-in-hand with removing evocation' cooldown. Rebalancing could mean increase the mana cost for all spells (undo the recent cost changes (minus LB) ?), as well as possibly retouching the dps of certain spells.

In any case, even considering there really is only 1 major outstanding bug for mages, that bug is easy to quickly patch. I think the mana cost reduction is a good enough compromise for now. I don't even complain about it. Theres also arguably PVE frost rotations being close to a repeat from destro warlocks pre-3.0. That one is hard to fix though.

If there is something to be said about a 'major change' to be done down the line for mages, theres a few I have in mind. Off the top of my head:

- Remove the cooldown on evocation (seriously, even with no cooldown, I will do my dearest efforts never to cast this ever).

- Make spirit actually at least do something ? It doesn't have to be good, but it does require either arcane spec or mage armor to be even usable.

- Somehow fix frost PVE rotations. This one is rather hard to do because you want to avoid giving more pvp burst. They could also do something simple like make every ice lance landing (or critting?) give a self-buff, something that doesn't last long (15s?), forcing a more involved play.

and then the really longterm stuff

Improve fire PVP. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not a PVP guy. At all. But a few things are glaringly obvious. Everything is slanted towards making fire not work in PVP. Heres a refresher:

-> Fire dps is balanced based on crits. If it doesn't crit, it doesn't do much dps. This is particularly relevant due to resilience. And talents like Hot Streak.
-> The tree is seemingly designed with bigger and better fireballs being the overall goal of the entire tree. Problem is, you won't be casting any in pvp.
-> Lack of dps on the move. This means a spammable instant. Instant being the key word here.
-> Least survivability. With talents like Playing With Fire, things aren't all rosy. But most importantly...
-> Lack of control over your adversary. This means no CS, no snare, no nothing really to help your case. I can understand the design is more of a 'glass-cannon' type ordeal where you have no snare but you're meant to hurt. Problem is, it has to include an instant cast, because there is no way in hell you will cast a fireball ever. You would need some spammable instant cast doing fireblast-level damage.
-> Horrid mana consumption rate. Particularly for that spec.
-> Whatever fix is being done must not affect arcane or frost tree in pvp. That would imply something like breaking up blastwave or combustion and turn it into the aforementioned new talent that is the spammable instant cast.

There is clearly, in my opinion, far too much factors to overcome to ever hope to make fire workable. By that I mean most of the items in the list above simply do not work, at all, because the tree design goes against how pvp works. Particularly crits. Maybe maybe if the tree had some 'resilience removal' (piercing?) on your target and had a spammable instant cast, we might get something workable. The spec would make up for its lack of survival, lack of control by having solid sustained damage on the move. It would still be a lesser 'arcane'-type spec as far as playstyle goes, but at least it would stand a chance.

Allow arcane spec to scale. Now this is more a personal belief more than anything else, but AP has always somewhat distortioned the entire tree. Its presence somewhat prevents the entire tree to scale due to pvp concerns. This means the tree will naturally tend to avoid damage multipliers, and aim more towards either procs (missile barrage style) or haste. It also (particularly) means a lower crit multiplier. How much this will hold back the spec as a whole down the line is anyones guess. However, as far as I'm concerned that talent always has been holding back the spec as a whole, ever since Molten Core era.

Theres also a few things I would probably do, such as making sure you never put a dps-increasing talent usable by other trees in the tier-1. This means EP (as it used to be). This means Incineration affecting Arcane Blast. It essentially removes any notion of choice by doing that. It would be a far better design, in my view, to make Arcane Blast have 6% more crit base (without any talent points, for all specs), and make Incineration not affect Arcane Blast.

Pasture · 11/06/08, 8:31 PM

* Arcane in PvE - We would like to give you a new rotation mostly because Arcane Blast doesn't really work in PvE and because the PvP "rotation" seems to be: something -> something -> bored -> ARCANE BARRAGE!

Actually our pve rotation is fine. It's just a question of making Blast worth casting as a filler. The rotation itself is probably more dynamic than any other mage rotation.

As for pvp it's more like BARRAGE -> something -> BARRAGE -> something. Not sure what rotation Ghostcrawler is using but she is not utilising Barrage to its maximum potential.

arch · 11/06/08, 8:35 PM

- Make spirit actually at least do something ? It doesn't have to be good, but it does require either arcane spec or mage armor to be even usable.

This is exactly my stance on this issue. I don't care if it would increase my dps by 2 or make my character look extra shiny in red, as long as a stat that is being poured onto our gear becomes remotly useful. That's the core issue. Nobody wants to have their item budget filled with a stupid stat that only activates if we do something wrong.

About Fire PvP:

WotLK fire pvp is lightyears ahead of BC fire pvp. My experience is mainly based on BG's and 3s, but currently I'm having the time of my life with Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft this spec (which I will evolve into Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft at 80). I feel unbeatable 1v1, I feel confident 1v2 and I've got fair a chance in quite a few 1v3's. The spec actually works in pvp, and I do crit 495 resilience targets alot , even back-to-back crits, with my 37% crit +10% imp. scorch + 6% scorch/fireblast.

That being said, I don't know what lvl 80 and its healthpools will bring. If they were to adjust a few of those RNGish talents (including hot streak) and FIX IGNITE as in give up the DoT version and move to a different solution (which doesn't include double-dipping against resilience) fire would be in a very good place. Maybe not fully competative, but far far better than what we've had for a few years now.

I must also add that I was sooo relieved when I read Ghostcrawlers announcement about adding glyphs which will remove the knockback on blastwave among others. I was afraid all the people complaining about it in PvE would have it removed which would have been a huge loss in terms of PvP (I still cry myself to sleep thinking about old living bomb knockup). I have admittedly not tried it alot in PvE yet, but removing it on the grounds of knocking stuff out of consecration is stupid. There are ways of working around that, the knockback is not even remotly severe enough to cause a problem if you play it right.

Saiko · 11/06/08, 9:02 PM

I wrote this about a month ago and thought some of you might find it helpful. If you have a Java compiler you can run it to find more specific results. Basically it simulates 1 Billion casts and outputs the average number of casts between each Hot Streak proc depending on your crit percentage.

import java.util.*;

public class HotStreak
{
    public static void main (String[] args)
    {
        double critPercentage = .5;
        int procs = 0;
       
        Random random = new Random();
        boolean lastCast = false;
       
        for(int i = 0; i < 100000000; i++)
        {
            double temp = random.nextDouble();
            if(lastCast)
            {
                if(temp < critPercentage)
                {
                    procs++;
                    lastCast = false;
                }
                else
                    lastCast = false;
            }
            else if(temp < critPercentage)
                lastCast = true;
        }
        System.out.println(100000000.0/procs);
    }
}

Crit % - Average # of casts between proc
40% - 8.75
41% - 8.39
42% - 8.05
43% - 7.73
44% - 7.44
45% - 7.16
46% - 6.90
47% - 6.66
48% - 6.43
49% - 6.21
50% - 6.00
51% - 5.81
52% - 5.62
53% - 5.45
54% - 5.28
55% - 5.12

I'm not perfect so feel free to double check my code to make sure it works correctly.

arch · 11/06/08, 9:14 PM

I'm curious, what would happen to Hot streak if it was something more along the lines of "whenever you've scored 3 critical strikes with scorch, fireblast, fireball FFB you gain the blablabla buff which makes pyroblast instant cast", essentially making it like combustion? The reason being less RNG for both PvE and PVP.

aikiwoce · 11/06/08, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by arch

I'm curious, what would happen to Hot streak if it was something more along the lines of "whenever you've scored 3 critical strikes with scorch, fireblast, fireball FFB you gain the blablabla buff which makes pyroblast instant cast", essentially making it like combustion? The reason being less RNG for both PvE and PVP.

Actually, it would be more like a Lightning Capacitor, than combustion. My gut feeling is telling me that this would be a much better crit scaling talent, than the current HS, and much more reliable for PvP. I don't know if that's really warranted, though. I'll have to do the math and get back to you. I would like to say that speculation is fun, but I don't know this is the spot for it. Maybe we can make a place where we can discuss our mage design idea, and not in the WotLK thread.

At the very least, they should add an buff indicator that shows when you have a HS crit "charge" for PvP purposes.

elluminea · 11/07/08, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by manly

Theres also a few things I would probably do, such as making sure you never put a dps-increasing talent usable by other trees in the tier-1. This means EP (as it used to be). This means Incineration affecting Arcane Blast. It essentially removes any notion of choice by doing that. It would be a far better design, in my view, to make Arcane Blast have 6% more crit base (without any talent points, for all specs), and make Incineration not affect Arcane Blast.

If not DPS talents they'd be things like mana conservation or pointless utility spells and we'd back at the need to put points into talents that never get playtime, like 2/47/11+1 was in frost. I appreciated icy veins but I could have assigned points 4 through 10 in the frost tree using a dartboard and had an equal impact on my spec. As we've seen, even if such tier 1 talents weren't there but tier 3 had something great we'd still spec into it to min-max, at least this is giving us something along the way to be happy about using.

Originally Posted by arch

I'm curious, what would happen to Hot streak if it was something more along the lines of "whenever you've scored 3 critical strikes with scorch, fireblast, fireball FFB you gain the blablabla buff which makes pyroblast instant cast", essentially making it like combustion? The reason being less RNG for both PvE and PVP.

I think this would be a very positive change. Seeing how Missile Barrage works its way into PvE, hot streak feels clumsy by comparison, not to mention how bland it makes fingers of frost feel (from a PvE standpoint). I could see hot streak becoming a stacked buff which you would be able to 'spend' 2 of when you wanted (or more, considering the increased reliability). It would need a duration by charge, so you couldn't roll it until execute range and then unload insta pyros the rest of the fight, or maybe have a maximum stack size but a rolling duration. 3 would probably work well with combustion, you'd know when your combustion was done you'd have a pyro waiting to go, and combustion would be over so it's not as though the pyro is guaranteed to be buffed to high heaven. Maybe I'm off on this assessment due to my hatred of the RNG, but streaky performance due to crits is already prevalent, I'd think a design of this nature would be more along the lines of their recent "bring players with skill over players with shadowbolt" mantra.