As for meta gems, the only acceptable choice is one of the +3% crit damage meta gems due to how it actually works.
It is worth about 150-200 DPS, which makes most headpieces without a meta socket a bad choice.
Can someone explain why this is to me? 3% increased critical damage means that when a spell critically hits, it deals 3% of a normal hit's damage on top of everything, yes?
So, just throwing up rough numbers... take a fight in which you just spam FFB. If an FFB hits for 3000 damage on average, this would add 90 damage per crit. Say crit rate is at 50%... 45 flat damage per frostfirebolt.
45 per FFB / 2.5 second approx. hasted casting time = 18 dps.
I realize this does not include Living Bomb, Scorch and Hot Streak procs.... but how does this come anywhere near 150-200 dps?
Why Chaotic meta is superior to anything else is an issue which has been discussed since it was introduced in the form of Relentless Earthstorm Diamond, which was intended (and currently is) the same thing as Chaotic but for physical damage.
Theres two ways to discover why your statements are wrong: The first one is to search for that data from then, see why even back then the meta-gem was so powerful it nullified any non-meta head, and deduce that now it's even more so as static bonuses do not scale but a percentile increase does.
The second way is to run RAWR, input your gear and raid conditions, then compare to the same thing with another Meta, and see.
#
# Puny Mage Arcane
#
#
mage=Puny_Mage_56_3_12
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0icd0IzxGu0tedcZbIc0o
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/mage_armor/focus_magic,target=Mage_20_51_0
actions+=/mana_gem,trigger=4700/mana_potion,trigger=3500/evocation,trigger=12000
actions+=/mirror_image/icy_veins/arcane_power/arcane_blast,max=3/presence_of_mind,arcane_blast/arcane_missiles,barrage=1/arcane_barrage
chaotic_skyfire=1
# Pets
pet=mirror_image
quiet=1
active=owner
# Glyphs
glyph_arcane_power=1
glyph_mage_armor=1
glyph_arcane_blast=1
# Throw in a pair of Paladins....... Eventually these static parms will be replaced with real actors.
blessing_of_kings=1
blessing_of_wisdom=1
sanctified_retribution=1
swift_retribution=1
About 4660dps on simulationcraft, somehow need squize 500dps more and it would be nice pve build.
#
# Puny Mage Arcane
#
#
mage=Puny_Mage_56_3_12
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0icz0IzxGuRtedcZbGc0o
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/mage_armor/focus_magic,target=Druid_58_0_13_SF
actions+=/mana_gem,trigger=4700/mana_potion,trigger=3500/evocation,trigger=12000
actions+=/mirror_image/icy_veins/arcane_power/arcane_blast,max=3/presence_of_mind,arcane_blast/arcane_missiles,barrage=1/arcane_barrage
chaotic_skyfire=1
# Pets
pet=mirror_image
quiet=1
active=owner
# Glyphs
glyph_arcane_power=1
glyph_mage_armor=1
glyph_arcane_blast=1
# Throw in a pair of Paladins....... Eventually these static parms will be replaced with real actors.
blessing_of_kings=1
blessing_of_wisdom=1
sanctified_retribution=1
swift_retribution=1
having a 100% Pushback Resistance with Conc Aura would deliver more DPS as the Resistance and 1 Point in Incanter`s Absorption. And 20% Aggro Reduce should be enough.
i tried now the 57/3/11 with Focus Magic and I am getting 4930 Dps so i asume you buffed this build with Focus Magic, but i also enchanted the Arcane Mage with -75 Hit and +75 Haste.
Can someone explain me why the Arcane Mage has the same 13,8% Haste as the other builds in the result.txt?
Where are the 6% from the Talent Tree?
I noticed your model didn't include the arcane shatter like combo and that would certainly increase dps.
I have no idea how to model that as I'm pretty new to simulationcraft. Is it possible to model a rotation of ABx3 AM ABr where both the ABr and AM get the benefit from the arcane blast buff?
Assuming JoW nerf, Pyromaniac change, TtW change, and (most importantly) current MF to TtW behavior - Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. 20/51/0
So we can safely have build w/o MF, instead, we can have those two points invested in 20% Arcane Meditation, which, coupled with new Pyromaniac, will act as a passive glyphed MageArmor. In my own case (my current gear) that averages for over 300 mp/5.
Can't link to my armory since it's on a localized part of it. (Un)fortunately i have both +spirit t7 pieces (head and chest), some +spi jewelry and KT cape [Cape of the Unworthy Wizard]. Ofcourse i didn't valued my gear because of +spi on it, atleast before.
Now my point is - currently theres too much of a gear itemized perfectly for such a build - with excessive hit and much haste. Sure, crit always have a great value for any HS build, but we have more of it through FB glyph and yellow sockets options, and we have much bigger impact modifier for it by 18% increase in Arcane tree.
Now all i need is holiday's end and some love with Rawr. Numbers > wordly statements.
If in fact MF doesn't stack with TTW the spec looses about 4% dps (more with stacked heroism) which places it at around the same dps as frostfire which is also much better at DPM which no amount of spirit can cover, and the whole discussion is moot.
EDIT: of course it is a bug, my comment was directed at the above that suggested removing points from MF, due to the said bug.
It's rather clear that the negative interaction between TtW and MF is unintended and a bug. There's little to no evidence of any talent cancelling-out another one in the game to my knowledge and it stands against logic. If the intent was to prevent Fireball spec from using TtW, it would not be in the form of MF not interacting with TtW, it'd be in the form of TtW not influencing FB.
Without getting into mathematical details, I'm curious to know the standard deviation on stacking haste above all others. For example, the Haste>Spell Dmg>Hit>Crit seems to have an advantage when using Hot Streak.
Ideally, it would seem that the faster you are able to cast your normal nukes (fireball/frostbolt), the faster you will proc extra abilities such as Hot Streak and Trinket Procs. Im not sure a real statistical analysis of this is possible due to the large standard deviation of the luck factor.
Id love to see a highly detailed comparison however based on the "average" proc rates vs haste rating.
Did try out your build and did not manage get more than around 4.7k with it, maybe something to do that my (and this) builds are on diffirent file? (so default builds are untouched). Its more thou, and did lose spirit bonus. Seems its no worth to get when you have mage armor glyph and use mage armor.
Inchanters Absorption in PvE is somewhat cray area, in some figts it could be usefull, where is fire/frost aoe, but beoynd that i see its useless.
muzeroc: There need be no simulation at all; the only thing affecting HS is crit rate. Haste does absolutely nothing to either crit rate, or the use of Combustion. Whether the spell takes 3.0sec to cast or 1.5sec to cast is totally unaffected.
More absolute HS procs, when there's moer absolute FFB casts is still the same percentage of HS-per-FFB as fewer absolute HS procs with fewer absolute FFB casts (given the same crit rating, of course).
Proc rates on trinkets are believed to be very stable with respect to cast-per-second. It's believed that after the 45s CD of trinkets, whether you mash very fast spells or very slow ones, within 4-10 sec it'll proc. Generally, it's accepted that a good aproximation for 45s ICD trinkets is "procs a little more than once per minute". It would be complex and difficult to run an experiment to compare the difference in trinket proc given different cast times, and even so it'd be much more useful to do so comparing 1.5s and 3.0s spells, rather than a 3.0s with [none] and [some] haste.
Being strictly pedantic, what haste will do is increase problems caused by Ignite Munching, reduce down-time (marginally) of LB, and at some critical value points (where you can fit in another FFB before re-scorching) decrease scorch-to-FFB-cast ratio. However, given it's at the expense of spellpower, it'll also lessen the difference between FFB damage and Scorch damage. Finally, Haste will always worsen DPM and mana-per-second consumption.
Upon request I have reprised my test for the new PTR build. I did not note it, but, yes I removed my annoying sundial for the previous test(and this one). You will note the baseline dmg is slightly higher-I was finally able to get a character on the PVE server so this toon has one upgrade.
Test server US English (PVE) 0.0.8 9368
New copy had cleared talents so i was able to get right down to it on the same level 77-78 mammoths
Spec into TTW +Fire down to but not including MF.
AM=925
Arcane missiles+chilled(Ice armor) =1037
Speccing into MF:
AM=926
AM+MF range=1037
AM+Chilled 925
AM+Chilled+MF range=1037
This does not match with Gatina's results. So I decimated the local wildlife with point blank AM(to ensure ice armor put up the chilled debuff) the server crashed on me at just under 150 AM hits. None of them did more than 1037, all the others were 925-926. I suppose the bug could be fixed for Fireball and not for AM.
Last edited by Obfu : 01/02/09 at 12:34 PM.
Reason: corrected server details
muzeroc: Generally, it's accepted that a good aproximation for 45s ICD trinkets is "procs a little more than once per minute".
That's an approximation that holds up with WWS parses. Every time I've checked I got almost exactly 1/6 uptime for "Now is the Time" buff from the sundial. (in fact...slightly higher than 1/6, which is the mathematical equivalent of "procs a little more than once per minute")
In my spreadsheets I just divide the spellpower by 6 when comparing to other trinkets on things like the Sundial. I got there by reviewing WWS parses though. When I tried to work out a formula I was not sure enough about how the cooldown interacted to value any calcuation I could come up with over empirical results.
Noticing that Pyromaniac will be losing mana cost reduction for improved mana regen, I have a few questions.
1) What is the mana regen for Pyromaniac in 3.08? (% mana regen while in combat?)
2) What is the progression of the mana regen stat?
3) Will it stack with Arcane Meditation and Glyphed Mage Armor?
--3a) If it stacks, what is the effect?
The point for 3a is that I read that Pyromaniac's mana regen is 10%/20%/30% mana regen while in combat. Thus if you have 30% from Pyromaniac, 30% from Arcane Meditation, 30% from Mage Armor, and 20% from Glyph of Mage Armor, would the mana regen in combat be capped at 100% or less, allow 110% mana regen in combat, or not allow AM and Pyro to stack?
Pyromaniac grants 10% in-combat mana regen per point, for a maximum of 30% in-combat mana regen at 3/3 Pyromaniac.
Yes, it will stack with Arcane Meditation and (Glyphed) Mage Armor.
However, effects like these are capped at 100%. If you're using a Glyphed Mage Armor, you should only take 2/3 Meditation and 3/3 Pyromaniac, otherwise the last 10% will be wasted.
Being strictly pedantic, it won't be wasted. It just won't do anything. All effects state "allows n% of your regeneration to continue while casting". You can only technically "allow" 100%. Otherwise we'd have the amusing scenario where you'd regen more while casting than normally.
Being strictly pedantic, it won't be wasted. It just won't do anything. All effects state "allows n% of your regeneration to continue while casting". You can only technically "allow" 100%. Otherwise we'd have the amusing scenario where you'd regen more while casting than normally.
In vanilla WoW there was an (unintended) mechanic where one would regenerate more mana during a druid's innervate while casting because the game would add talented regen (which was 15% back then) on top of the 400% regen given by innervate. If you completety stopped casting you would only get the 400% innervate-regen. This was eventually fixed, but unless someone tested this on the PTR I wouldn't assume anything about the stacking behaviour of those 3.
huh, so that's completely scalable still? I wonder why no one uses it anymore if it does exactly the same thing.
[Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon] was one of the best healer (at least priest healer, and probably druids too?) trinkets during TBC. My priest friends tell me that there are better regen trinkets now, this might change as we get towards the end of the expansion and people get more stats.
Druids during BC, depending on preference or spec, had plenty of MP5 regen as well as passive, so it was less value.
There were better trinkets even before BC was over. Unless you were stuck in T5 content, you could make more value from a number of trinkets, including Memento of Tyrande and I believe Earring of Soulful Meditation. Though not necessarily due to flat regen, as the Card would surpass some of them, you could combine CDs and mechanics to make a number of trinkets give effectively more mana than the Card.
Don't forget that a priest does not necessarily want mana whenever the Card feels like giving it; if he's at near-full mana and the proc over-flows, it's a total waste. DPS intake is not such that healers are almost permanently at a mana deficit like DPS are.
Lastly, during BC there was plenty of mana to be had from down-ranking, so inadvertently, depending on situation, a +spell trinket was technically saving mana by allowing lower ranks to be used effectively.
All in all, if you were raiding shitty content or couldn't get out of SSC, Blue Dragon wasn't a bad choice. But I wouldn't say it was "one of the best". In Constantius' "How to heal" thread at the time he had it ranked as decent pre-T5.
According to the new(est) blue post (MMO-Champion BlueTracker - PTR Patch 3.0.8 Notes), FFB loses the double-dip 3% hit and Molten Fury works with TotW. Will Fire/Arc be the new "best" PvE single target DPS spec?
Padmee, your build has neither blast wave nor dragon's breath. Furthermore, there is absolutely no reason, ever, to raid without 3/3 Master of Elements.
Korrigan, this has been discussed heavily over several pages, in several threads, not to mention that Rawr has had a working 3.0.8 mode for weeks, with working snare uptime even before that.
12/28/08, 1:37 AM
