I can think of very few occasions were pushback while raiding has been a problem. 5 points for pushback protection is a lot when there are only a couple of fights you'll ever see benefit from it.
Most probably true, however I was struggling for points to put anywhere else.
The lower tier of fire has useless talents for Arcane spec, and the frost talents will only increase AoE dps, which I'm not too bothered about, I'm more focusing on single target (i.e. Boss) dps.
The pushback protection is 5 points true, but I can think of situations where the pushback resist is useful, such as when whelps/eles etc get loose in Sarth3D, and when an errant person clips you with some damage from the wrong polarity etc. I'm basically suggesting that there are fights where you take some AoE or small hits, and the knockback caused by these would be a dps lost to your blast, and especially bad to your AM, as they could knock a missile off the end with the channelling reduction.
The only other options I can really see are:
-Move some points into Int increase, which gives a small increase in SP, and also a small boost to evocation due to the larger mana pool, still leaving x% push back resist
- 1 into slow for the TtW while soloing, but again, this spec is raid designed.
- a possible combination of the above.
And yes, the proc chance of MBAM is a randomiser in dps, but I would assume that MBAM variability isn't the make or break of Arcane dps as crits are to FFB, and to a lesser extent FB.
Could you form that question into something a little more specific? What do you mean "working", and how does one spec need another in order to "work"? FFB provides nothing to FB spec, aside from iSc wich FB can provide of it's own. Did you perhaps mean arcane vs FFB, rather than FB vs FFB?
If you didn't mention the other mage, I'd assume you meant "is it competitive" to which the answer is 'no', but your question leaves me quite confused.
I don't know if anyone tested it yet, but does the Focus Magic buff itself and the Buff provided to the other mage by Focus Magic actually stack? (Two 18/53/0 mages buffing each other FM would thus provide 6% crit)
Because some guild mate told me it was bugged (not stacking) but could not provide any proof.
Apologies for possible bad English.
Success isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You must set yourself on fire.
- Arnold H. Glasow
I don't know if anyone tested it yet, but does the Focus Magic buff itself and the Buff provided to the other mage by Focus Magic actually stack? (Two 18/53/0 mages buffing each other FM would thus provide 6% crit)
Yes, you can do that and it is working as intended.
From the 3.0.3 patch notes:
Focus Magic: Now works properly when mages with this talent use the ability on each other.
ok I try to be a bit more precise. I mean if TtW will already works on a 18/50 specc if you got another FFB mage in raid. So I wonder if the slow effect from FFB tricker Ttw.
ok I try to be a bit more precise. I mean if TtW will already works on a 18/50 specc if you got another FFB mage in raid. So I wonder if the slow effect from FFB tricker Ttw.
Your real question is what actually triggers TtW on bosses. At this time, almost exclusively the spell Slow.
More importantly, for 3.0.8, it will be changed into "any slowing effect". This includes melee swing slows, cast time slows and movement speed debuffs. Bosses are generally all affected by melee swing slows, and all tanks are able of applying one. So for all bossfights, in 3.0.8. TtW will be active. FFB will not proc it on bosses though.
I don't know if anyone tested it yet, but does the Focus Magic buff itself and the Buff provided to the other mage by Focus Magic actually stack? (Two 18/53/0 mages buffing each other FM would thus provide 6% crit)
Because some guild mate told me it was bugged (not stacking) but could not provide any proof.
Apologies for possible bad English.
This will be fixed next patch, it's in the patch notes
They must find it difficult....
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
rather than truth as the authority.
I haven't seen this questioned answered in this thread and have been reading it a long time. Do the ticks from Living Bomb interfere with Hot Streak since they are unable to crit at all?
i haven't seen this questioned answered in this thread and have been reading it a long time. Do the ticks from living bomb interfere with hot streak since they are unable to crit at all?
No. Currently, LB doesn't interact with Hot Streak at all. Post-patch, only the explosion will affect it.
Edit: Ugh - please delete. Someone else being in imp bliz wouldn't affect the value of frostbite. My post below:
---
I don't want to put Manly under a microscope, but he's been spec'ed with 3x frostbite 2x ice floes for a while now and I've never really been too comfortable with that choice.
For fights 144s - 154s you get to use it twice if you have a third point in ice floes (and you get half an IV out
of it).
For fights 288s you would get to use it twice without your third point. For fights between 288s - 308s you would
get a full extra icey veins by having your third point.
For fights of a length of 328s you would still get your third icy veins by having just two points.
Could someone please explain the choice? Is it just picking personal utility farming and stuff over boss dps, based on the extremely limited nature of ice floes 3? Is it depending on another mage with imp bliz being in your raid group (the first ever bliz slave, lol)?
No. Currently, LB doesn't interact with Hot Streak at all. Post-patch, only the explosion will affect it.
I know that thats what has been said by blues and repeated over. However, I have seen little evidence of that in practice. Maybe someone saw that ever been the case on the PTR ? I sure haven't.
Originally Posted by Shoein
stuff
Yes, that is pretty much spot-on. The problem with that last point is that it is situational. It won't always do anything at all. In fact, most of the time it will flat out not do anything. I somewhat prefer frostbite as a result, but to be honest I don't think I can say I get much mileage out of frostbite either. I do believe that FFB spec is well suited for 'a lot' of personal customization, much more than any other build I have seen over the years, while staying competitive. It is one of those rare times I get to enjoy it. I'm trying to take advantage of it for the time being. I did drop my original 0/52/19 build with imp blizzard/DB, mostly because that build was fantastic for 5man content, but since I stopped running 5mans, I changed to a pure PVE build. I do miss DB from time to time, particularly on something like maexxna spiders. But it is simply too hard to justify a talent point for such a narrow use.
In any case, come 3.0.8 depending on what is going to stay in and what won't, there will be a true spec parity. If they fix the AB bug with arcane barrage then I am somewhat unsure, but I think it would make arcane a really decent alternative, but still below fire. With that bug, I think arcane is somewhat superior to the rest. Its really hard to debate since theres too many variables in play, but there isn't much downside to it. Fire beating FFB spec is a welcome, although you pay a heavy DPM price, as well as lack of immunity protection/poor AOE options. I think the real question will be whether to spec arcane meditation over WIF for fireball builds, and I think the answer is truly non-obvious. Also, a definite confirmation on LB proccing HS would change numbers considerably.
In any case, I've been holding off on creating the arcane thread until things gets more final.
Last edited by manly : 01/14/09 at 3:24 PM.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
This really isnt a scientific answer to the above, but while comparing 18/53 to 53/18 on the ptr yesterday, I certainly had many more hot streak procs than normal. Ive never missed one during my normal ffb build, and they were proccing so often on the test dummies, that I would have them overwritten before I could get to the button.
I didnt comb through the entire log because my main concern was looking at the dps difference, but I do still have the logs if anyone is interested in either the wws link, or the logs themselves.
Here are some numbers from the ptr. Spec is 57/3/11. I have no gear on and no buffs. I did not use arcane power,IV, or POM. Hit is assumed max as i was practicing on a theramore dummy. Latency ranged from 101 to 111. Ive done 3 tests so far and will add more if this information is helpful.
My first rotation was a straight AB/ABar. Here are the numbers. wowwebstats
Second was a AB/ABar with the MB inserted when procced with no interrupt. wowwebstats.com
The last was a AB/ABar/MB buffing the MB before casting. wowwebstats.com
As far as I can see Living Bomb definately works with Hot Streak, as clearly shown in this part of the log.
21:35'36.011 Juravieal gains Hot Streak. <--- first Hot Streak Buff
21:35'36.579 Juravieal Scorch hits Heroic Training Dummy for 1951 Fire.
21:35'40.485 Juravieal Fireball hits Heroic Training Dummy for 5851 Fire.
21:35'40.767 Juravieal Pyroblast hits Heroic Training Dummy for 9137 Fire. (Critical) (550 Resisted) <-- HS Buff used, Pyroblast does not count towards HS, and there was no other Critical, so HS Crit Counter: 0
21:35'41.332 Heroic Training Dummy suffers 672 Fire damage from Juravieal Living Bomb. (75 Resisted)
21:35'44.460 Juravieal Living Bomb hits Grandmaster’s Training Dummy for 4163 Fire. (Critical) <-- HS Buff Counter: 1
21:35'44.746 Juravieal Fireball hits Heroic Training Dummy for 10730 Fire. (Critical) (1454 Resisted) <-- HS Buff Counter: 2
21:35'45.006 Juravieal gains Hot Streak. <-- New Hot Streak Buff
21:45'53.621 Juravieal Fireball hits Heroic Training Dummy for 3708 Fire. (927 Resisted)
21:45'54.189 Heroic Training Dummy suffers 905 Fire damage from Juravieal Living Bomb.
21:45'54.462 Heroic Training Dummy is afflicted by Slow.
21:45'54.752 Juravieal Living Bomb hits Grandmaster’s Training Dummy for 3030 Fire. (Critical)
21:45'54.752 Juravieal Living Bomb hits Heroic Training Dummy for 3394 Fire. (Critical)
21:45'54.752 Brother Malach First Aid heals Edward for 484. (484 Overheal)
21:45'55.307 Juravieal gains Hot Streak.
Looks like thats proof enough. (taken from your WWS)
LB is a mixed blessing; though it'll increase the incidence of "chances to proc HS per minute", it's low crit rate mandates we spec World In Flames lest it be detrimental. It also increases the chance HS procs will be wasted by occuring at the wrong moment. And the really bad thing about Hot Streak overwriting isn't that a proc is lost, it's that two spells worth of proc is lost.
Though overall, the benefits outweigh the negatives, to be sure. And 3% more crit from Fireball (due to glyph) can't be a bad thing. Whether or not the lesser RNG-instability of FB is preferable is largely down to choice, however. It's just a shame that it's so much more expensive.
Here are some numbers from the ptr. Spec is 57/3/11. I have no gear on and no buffs. I did not use arcane power,IV, or POM. Hit is assumed max as i was practicing on a theramore dummy. Latency ranged from 101 to 111. Ive done 3 tests so far and will add more if this information is helpful.
My first rotation was a straight AB/ABar. Here are the numbers. wowwebstats
Second was a AB/ABar with the MB inserted when procced with no interrupt. wowwebstats.com
The last was a AB/ABar/MB buffing the MB before casting. wowwebstats.com
seems that straight AB/ABar shows the most dps.
why don't you made AB/AM/ABar? In another thread it was told that the AB Buff/Debuff works for AM and ABar because the last missile consumes the AB Buff/Debuff when it hits. So AM and ABar should benefit from it.
No. Currently, LB doesn't interact with Hot Streak at all. Post-patch, only the explosion will affect it.
Are you 100% sure the application does not interfere? I have time after time gotten a FFB crit, cast another FFB and while it is traveling thrown up LB, FFB crits, no hotstreak proc.
Originally Posted by Pintofbrew
Though overall, the benefits outweigh the negatives, to be sure. And 3% more crit from Fireball (due to glyph) can't be a bad thing. Whether or not the lesser RNG-instability of FB is preferable is largely down to choice, however. It's just a shame that it's so much more expensive.
How much higher is the RNG-disparity of FB over FFB? Lately I've had some seriously annoying RNG runs (dipping 15-20% under my effective critrate in raids on bosses, eg hitting 35% crit on patch when I had over 40% crit buffed and add scorch inn on boss) and it is extremely annoying.
Last edited by Dustwhisper : 01/15/09 at 10:59 AM.
Here are some numbers from the ptr. Spec is 57/3/11. I have no gear on and no buffs. I did not use arcane power,IV, or POM. Hit is assumed max as i was practicing on a theramore dummy. Latency ranged from 101 to 111. Ive done 3 tests so far and will add more if this information is helpful.
My first rotation was a straight AB/ABar. Here are the numbers. wowwebstats
Second was a AB/ABar with the MB inserted when procced with no interrupt. wowwebstats.com
The last was a AB/ABar/MB buffing the MB before casting. wowwebstats.com
Long time 'lurker' but I had a question and comment here.
I've done a bunch of napkin math on this - trying out Arcane Blast x 3 + arcane missiles + arcane barrage as a rotation.
Use missiles in there regardless of missile barrage procs (I know, it's lame and removes dynamic choice).
That may be the "burn" cycle, but from what I can tell, it's 100% supportable for nearly 6 minutes with a 53-0-18 spec with 2/3 student of the mind, frost channeling, aggressive mana gem and evocation use. (yes, I considered icy veins, heroism, and embrace of the spider procs)
So I guess our question goes back to Manly's primary issue with Mage mechanics (which I 100% agree with)
Once again Mages are going to have to spec, gear, and select the appropriate armor (and glyph) prior to every fight - if you're not out of mana & tricks to get mana then you're not ideally specced to do maximum damage, but then if someone gets randomly gibbed or you get mana-bombed (drained) in a fight - you'll run out of mana without outside help such an innervates.
Yeah I really need to hurry up and make an arcane thread so as to avoid people having to do napkin math. Its simply too easy to miscalculate some mechanics since some of them are rather inconsistent.
I'll try and get it up and running this week. If not, definitely the day 3.0.8 comes out.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
01/09/09, 10:56 AM
