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Old 11/01/08, 8:22 PM   #3931
Roywyn
Bald Bull
 
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Roywyn
Gnome Mage
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Balance of Power - Spell - World of Warcraft can be 4% miss for a Balance Druid. Only gets you to 8% miss though, not past 8.88%.
The double penalty for former binary spells might be a reason, Mark of the Wild is up in the screeny.

If Mark of the Wild causes actualy misses (full resists), those resistance-induced missed cannot be removed by spell hit, only by spell penetration. As far as I know.


Stupid Things to do with Focus Magic

Normally, you cast FM on a party player, they crit with a heal or offensive spell, and you get a 10s buff for 3% crit.

Now, cast FM on someone and duel them:
The proc is a 10s Magic DEBUFF now on the hostile player.
If you have 71+ Mage Armour on, it will only last 5 seconds.

The hell?


Mage Armour

Doesn't reduce channeling time or ticks of Mind Flay nor Drain Soul.
It does reduce the channeling time of Drain Life and Drain Mana though, so they have to be caste every 2 instead of 5 seconds.

It reduces Holy Fire from 7 to 4 ticks though, pretty odd. Vampiric Touch/Immolate goes from 5 to 2, rounded down since the 3rd tick would be after 9s, but the DoT expires after 7.5.


Originally Posted by Xunwael View Post
On the note of AoE, I am still irritated that even with fully talented blizzard hitting every single hittable mob during the MH waves yesterday, doing 6.6k DPs with ease, I was still being outdmaged by the likes of destruction warlocks just spamming totally untalanted seeds of corruption. I was far ahead of our fire mage since he couldn't hit all the mobs, but the warlocks just stood there chaincasting SoC outdamaging his many, many talent points invested into purely buffing his AoEs.
What was your Blizzard crit rate?
Seed doesn't have good talents boosting it, it also is an affliction spell. It does however have absurdly high base damage.

I can't really see it outdamage fully specced Blizzard unless you come out below 70% Blizzrd crit or so.

Last edited by Roywyn : 11/01/08 at 9:04 PM.

Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t106009-...2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

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Old 11/01/08, 8:51 PM   #3932
 Seonid
Commander Nexus
 
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Human Mage
 
Anachronos (EU)
Originally Posted by Xunwael View Post
On the note of AoE, I am still irritated that even with fully talented blizzard [...]I was still being outdmaged by the likes of destruction warlocks just spamming totally untalanted seeds of corruption.
This is at 70 though, where we can all see nothing is really balanced (notice where prot warrior dps is in a random heroic for example) so personally, I am withholding a degree of judgement until I see the figures in a level 80 25 man.

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Old 11/02/08, 12:25 AM   #3933
ekotan
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
6.6K seems low. I'm seeing more like 8-12K DPS with fully-talented improved blizzard during MH trash waves depending on which haste buffs are active on me. Warlocks and fire mages were a distant second. I did have to use glyphed mage armor otherwise I was running OOM all the time. Things will be different at level 80, I'm sure. I just hope they don't nerf improved blizzard, because it's ridiculously good fun to see your screen filled with a sea of big yellow numbers.

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Old 11/02/08, 1:40 AM   #3934
Deedre
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Turalyon
6.6k is very low. I'm routinely hitting 10k dps spamming blizzard on Hyjal trash and threat capped at that point from doing more. Seed is well behind that...oddly enough, it's the hunters who are placing second in aoe dps in my guild, they can hit 8kish dps on Hyjal trash.

You have to sink a lot of talent points into frost to get the most out of blizzard, but the payoff is definitely there.

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Old 11/02/08, 2:31 AM   #3935
Maje
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Naxxramas (EU)
I've seen quite a few "Miss" messages in PvP, even the combat log was saying "Miss" and I had PvE gear on me with around 16% hit, this was against a warrior and a paladin. I've read a bit and some places say that a full resist will yield a Miss message. I haven't tested this extensively, but it should be easy enough to check.

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Old 11/02/08, 2:44 AM   #3936
Xunwael
Piston Honda
 
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Draenei Paladin
 
Sunstrider (EU)
Originally Posted by Roywyn View Post
What was your Blizzard crit rate?
Seed doesn't have good talents boosting it, it also is an affliction spell. It does however have absurdly high base damage.

I can't really see it outdamage fully specced Blizzard unless you come out below 70% Blizzrd crit or so.
My blizzard critrate was around the 70%+ mark, yes. Well, atleast it was on the 4 target dummies in orgrimmar, I didn't actually look at it during the raid, but I can only assume it was higher due to buffs etc. It was hit- err, I mean critting for around 1100, and 1250+ with trinkets etc active. I did have some problems with threat from the casters however, since we had no prot paladins tanking, but nothing more than a few seconds of lost DPS.

Blizzard obviously provides several huge benefits over SoC - like 10% spellcrit to all mobs hit if they're being hit for more than 5 seconds and a 85% slow fully talented which means that snarable melee attackers pose no threat at all, but I am still irritated since those benefits come with sacrifices as well.

6.6K seems low. I'm seeing more like 8-12K DPS with fully-talented improved blizzard during MH trash waves depending on which haste buffs are active on me.
How on earth did you pull that off? Even with icy veins on the first puny waves, opening after the tanks had only a couple of seconds to just gather the mobs, I couldn't get near that. On the waves following those I would get casting interruptions from the shadow guys throwing spells at me, and spiders with their little bugs.

"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."
- Clark's Law

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Old 11/02/08, 4:36 PM   #3937
Jarlyn
Don Flamenco
 
N/A
Undead Mage
 
No WoW Account
I did Hyjal as 53/8 (no Blast Wave, which needs a glyph stupidly bad) and was solidly behind a marks hunter in AoE DPS. Supposedly moonkins do even more. Mages are fun.

And yeah, despite the claims of removing RNG from pvp, there's still a number of random resist% talents that will produce spell misses. I see them with relative frequency.

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Old 11/02/08, 5:45 PM   #3938
Jonny_Monroe
Don Flamenco
 
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Draenei Priest
 
Auchindoun (EU)
How on earth did you pull that off? Even with icy veins on the first puny waves, opening after the tanks had only a couple of seconds to just gather the mobs, I couldn't get near that. On the waves following those I would get casting interruptions from the shadow guys throwing spells at me, and spiders with their little bugs.
Are you talented for FoF + Frostbite + Imp. Blizzard + Shatter? They add up to a substantial crit% increase.

And yeah, despite the claims of removing RNG from pvp, there's still a number of random resist% talents that will produce spell misses. I see them with relative frequency.
I havn't been especially looking out for them but I've not seen any outside of CloS that I can remember, this is taking PvE gear into BGs and running with 10% hit (11% with a goat around, ofcourse). I'm going to go do some duels against players with/without penetration and see if my 90+ base resisntace is causing any 'misses'.

[edit]: Random thought: What if talents like balance of power apply after the hit cap? You have 100% hit chance after gear is considered and balance takes your hit cap against the druid down to 96%? I'm sure if this was the case it would have been reported on by now but its something I'd like to test at some point.

OMNOMNOM.

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Old 11/02/08, 6:37 PM   #3939
Faxmonkey
Piston Honda
 
Troll Mage
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Ardanell View Post
Please excuse my bad english as it is not my native language. I have been reading EJ for almost a year now and I have always found great & valuable information there. Thanks for this !

I currently have a question regarding one odd stat for the expansion, Spell penetration.

On the Wowwiki dedicated page :
Spell penetration - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
They state that spell penetration cannot help to negate the 6% magical restistance that all level 73 bosses have and therefore is useless in PVE. I read the same response on this forum before. It could only be usefeull for bosses that do have extra resistances as Rage or Supremus do (200 resistance estimated). COE is there of a great help.
I believe the exact values were 185 Frost resist for Rage and 213 Fire for Supremus. Blizzard did, in fact, release the exact values. Right around the time Sunwell came out, Brady games put out a "Beastiary" strategy guide for World of Warcarft and it included all Boss HP/resistances in it.

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Old 11/02/08, 7:07 PM   #3940
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
I'm trying to understand the distinction of the "guardian" subset of pets.

As far as I can tell Guardians do not seem to suffer from lag nor do they benefit from auras.

Is the Water Elemental considered a "guardian"? If so, does it follow this same distinction? (ie: lag=o, auras=0)


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Old 11/02/08, 9:11 PM   #3941
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
Guardians are not a subset of Pets, they're a different mechanic. The two defining features of pets is that they have an action bar, and are in your party. Guardians are not in your party, and they have no action bar. They are, in all senses, normal mobs, distinguished only by being on your side, which usually includes walking with you when out of combat.


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Old 11/02/08, 9:57 PM   #3942
Jonny_Monroe
Don Flamenco
 
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Draenei Priest
 
Auchindoun (EU)
An easy comparison for 'minion' versus 'guardian':

Roll a deathknight.

Summon a ghoul. Note 'Guardian' - no action bar; autonomous.

Spec unholy for permanent ghouls. - Note 'minion' - Action bars and no duration.

If theres any differences you need to test between the two types, that's the easiest way I've found to do it. Although spending 10minutes playing between the 2 on the beta, I've not seen any noticeable difference in tings like scaling or performance.

OMNOMNOM.

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Old 11/02/08, 10:23 PM   #3943
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by PSGarak View Post
Guardians are not a subset of Pets, they're a different mechanic. The two defining features of pets is that they have an action bar, and are in your party. Guardians are not in your party, and they have no action bar. They are, in all senses, normal mobs, distinguished only by being on your side, which usually includes walking with you when out of combat.
Ah.... So..... not being in the party/raid is why they do not benefit from auras.

I've seen reports of Water Elemental chain casts resulting in an average cast time greater than the standard cast time for Water Bolt.

However.... Mirror Image always cast exactly 4x(1xFireBlast,2xFrostBolt). So are they lasting longer than 30sec or are they nailing their cast times exactly?


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Old 11/02/08, 11:09 PM   #3944
Deedre
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Jarlyn View Post
I did Hyjal as 53/8 (no Blast Wave, which needs a glyph stupidly bad) and was solidly behind a marks hunter in AoE DPS. Supposedly moonkins do even more. Mages are fun.

And yeah, despite the claims of removing RNG from pvp, there's still a number of random resist% talents that will produce spell misses. I see them with relative frequency.
My plan at this point is to go deep frost pve on my alternate spec specifically for trash and aoe utility. Save fire (or frostfire) for the boss fights.

And to the other post wondering how to get blizzard dps up to stratospheric levels, Johnny Monroe has it exactly right: you need to grab the whole ball of wax in frost, fof, frostbite, shatter, 3/3 imp blizzard for giggles, etc. Blizzard fully talented is insanely good, probably the best aoe in the game right now. With all those talents, you rapidly push the crit rate up to near 100% after a tick or two. But it does come at a price, namely, single target dps.

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Old 11/03/08, 4:15 AM   #3945
Isambard
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Khadgar (EU)
Originally Posted by Deedre View Post
you need to grab the whole ball of wax in frost, fof, frostbite, shatter, 3/3 imp blizzard for giggles, etc. Blizzard fully talented is insanely good, probably the best aoe in the game right now. With all those talents, you rapidly push the crit rate up to near 100% after a tick or two. But it does come at a price, namely, single target dps.
Isn't frostbite rather hazardous for innocent bystanders? For example, a mage making do with arcane explosion? I understand that Vashj's striders now strictly follow their aggro list rather than attacking closest target when frozen, but wasn't that a specific change rather than general mob behaviour?

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