WotLK - Complete Mage Compendium (3.3.3 live) - Page 54

Salmon · 09/10/08, 6:45 PM

I think wether or not you respec is a matter of progression.

When my guild first went to SSC I respec'd to fire for Hydross. It was new content and the need to be on the "bleeding edge" of DPS was significantly more important. Frostfire Bolt is not necessarily going to fix that issue, but the issue of immunity based fights (specifically the prevailence of fire and frost immunities) is really entirely different. If you want to complain that immunity based fights are unfair then I agree. But at least now that Hydross is on farm for our guild I don't have to chose between respec'ing or wasting a raid spot with less than mediocre DPS.

It is "a" solution, not necessarily the perfect one and I think that there are more important things to complain about right now than a lackluster anti-immunity spell like how frost mages are balanced around a pet that has the survivabiltiy of a wet napkin or wether or not fire mage DPS will be remotely sustainable with the new emphasis on mana conservation (once all the tweaks are in). I think that Blizzard has put them selves in a difficult situation. I don't think that they can make Frostfire Bolt good because then they would instead simply invalidate the existence of Fireball and Frostbolt. It seems like it needs to be one or the other.

PSGarak · 09/10/08, 6:57 PM

The theme of this expansion is lowering the difference between min-max and casual play. It gives not respecing a lower dropoff from optimal play. So no, not something that us EJ peoples are ever really going to use in a serious manner, but not a spell that is going to go unused either.

Skallewag · 09/10/08, 7:00 PM

Well what people said months ago isn´t really a point since people have been saying lots of things about mages since the first leaks and even before that. I´m pretty sure something very similar to FFB has been suggested before blizzard even thought of the idea. I suggested something similar to living bomb before blizzard made the spell but Im no prophet. It was just a guess that turned out more or less correct. However numbers are not done, damage is not tuned. Blizzard have been busy tuning buffs and raid composition more than class DPS the last couple of weeks. Thats probably more than anything the reason FFB is in the shape its in now. The mage community might be testing FFB from more angles than blizz are but I´d be very suprised when they actually do return to the mage class to tune damageoutput of spell and specs if they do not tkae a look at FFB. After all one of the official purposes of this spell is to make elemental viable so we can safely assume that FFB will be tested in at least a frost a fire and an elemental build in various gear settings. If blizzard can find just a single spec they can tune FFB to deal competetive damage in then so can we, and if they cant find a single setting where the spell does anything but allow mages to be lazy on immunityfights then it will get further tuning.

But I do agree that if FFB is of only very situational use to anyone but an elemental mage we deserve a third spell. Especially since Ice Lance, AB, Invis and Spellsteal makes four toys we got for BC. Not all of them equally allround usefull offcourse but its still twice the number we´re currently getting. They dont even haveto pick spells that would have major impact on the mage playstyle. theres plenty of suggestions out there that are mainly fun spells with some situational use. Offcourse I would be happy to see some new major stuff but just like with glyphs I´d also be vary happy for some fun minor spells to goof around with.

solbergb · 09/10/08, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by Nurru

The problem with this line of reasoning is that if a boss is immune to an element then the good players will simply respec for that encounter so long as it is progression content. Frostfire Bolt won't really change that until things are on farm and by that point it doesn't really matter.

Well yes and no. Speaking strictly of progression here, where all that is going on for the whole raid is wiping over and over on a boss trying to work out a strategy....

If the encounter features a mix of immune and not immune creatures, or the boss itself switches immunity (imagine a mage-boss who puts up reflective fire or frost shields) what you would do in BC is switch to something like arcane. In Wrath, you could stick to your spec and suffer a DPS loss, but not a severe one.

Frostfire bolt is also very mana efficient, giving something decent to use when you have mismanaged your blue bar and are waiting for the next cooldown on a mana-restore option. Currently for fire mages, that option is scorch, and frostfire is a lot better than scorch as a "crap I'm low on mana" tool in terms of DPS/DPM.

I'm not an elite progression raider, but I do raid. While most of what I do is "on farm" in theory, in practice I'm usually working with a glorified PUG (composition changes weekly, raid stacking is a happy accident and a good portion of the raid is new to the strats). My job is to pick a spec that will handle multiple boss encounters plus kill trash efficiently and the variabiltiy of raid DPS on each fight means battles can take 3 minutes or 6 minutes, depending on stuff I usually have no control over. That means, yes, sometimes I go OOM and would value a spell like this for the low blue bar situations. Scorch just doesn't cut it, and wanding is laughable.

Frostfire bolt is a spell that has obvious utility to someone like me, whose evening may include one encounter where fire sucks, but two dozen pulls where fire is great, and where fireball just costs too damn much mana to sustain for a fight that went way too long because half the DPS died due to inexperience with the strat, poor tanking or poor healing.

Not every tool in the toolbox is intended for elite raiders. But it seems to me that when learning a fight, elite raiders look just as bumbling as the semi-pugs I run with, until they sort out a strategy. Fight times will be highly variable, and the "Best spec" won't always be obvious at first.

Solisa · 09/10/08, 7:26 PM

They could always do what they do with shadow-based mobs and have them be weak to their element even though it doesn't make much sense. Doesn't really do much for Frostfire bolt, but it removes the whole "mages getting shafted by immunity bosses" thing.

(Correct me if I'm wrong about the shadow thing)

Jarlyn · 09/10/08, 7:32 PM

A boss with rotating immunities (or close enough, anyway) was tried with original version of Mother Shahraz. The solution there was to stack physical DPS.

I hear everything that's being said about the upsides of FFB, and like I said, I'm fine with leaving it in the game. But if that's the case, then I'd like to see something else added as well.

solbergb · 09/10/08, 7:41 PM

Originally Posted by Skallewag

But I do agree that if FFB is of only very situational use to anyone but an elemental mage we deserve a third spell. Especially since Ice Lance, AB, Invis and Spellsteal makes four toys we got for BC.

Hm....maybe it just looks different to you. It may depend on spec

BC:
Arcane: invisibility, spellsteal, arcane blast, molten armor
Fire: invisiblity, spellsteal, dragon breath, molten armor
Frost: invisiblity, spellsteal, ice lance, molten armor

Wrath:

Arcane: mirror image, arcane barrage, improvements to various arcane things(mage armor, mana shield, invis)
Fire: mirror image, living bomb, frostfire bolt (chill on fire!), pyroblast usable in rotations, blastwave knockback
Frost: mirror image, water elemental as mana battery, frostfirebolt, (fingers of frost, deep freeze?)

Fire kinda has the best new toys, but some of arcanes are more usable and frost has a whole new role added
to the raid if we can get the elemental to work. I do think frostfire adds more to fire than frost, until you consider
the glyphs take away frostbolt chill for DPS. Then the chill on frostfire makes it a decent opener in solo play
and situationally useful in some smaller group content

Solisa · 09/10/08, 7:43 PM

Originally Posted by solbergb

Hm....maybe it just looks different to you. It may depend on spec

BC:
Arcane: invisibility, spellsteal, arcane blast, molten armor
Fire: invisiblity, spellsteal, dragon breath, molten armor
Frost: invisiblity, spellsteal, ice lance, molten armor

Wrath:

Arcane: mirror image, arcane barrage, improvements to various arcane things(mage armor, mana shield, invis)
Fire: mirror image, living bomb, frostfire bolt (chill on fire!), pyroblast usable in rotations, blastwave knockback
Frost: mirror image, water elemental as mana battery, frostfirebolt, (fingers of frost, deep freeze?)

Fire kinda has the best new toys, but some of arcanes are more usable and frost has a whole new role added
to the raid if we can get the elemental to work. I do think frostfire adds more to fire than frost, until you consider
the glyphs take away frostbolt chill for DPS. Then the chill on frostfire makes it a decent opener in solo play
and situationally useful in some smaller group content

If you are going to count talents then you have to consider Slow and water elemental. I believe he was just talking about trained skills, not talented changes.

Skallewag · 09/10/08, 9:30 PM

Originally Posted by solbergb

Hm....maybe it just looks different to you. It may depend on spec

BC:
Arcane: invisibility, spellsteal, arcane blast, molten armor
Fire: invisiblity, spellsteal, dragon breath, molten armor
Frost: invisiblity, spellsteal, ice lance, molten armor

Wrath:

Arcane: mirror image, arcane barrage, improvements to various arcane things(mage armor, mana shield, invis)
Fire: mirror image, living bomb, frostfire bolt (chill on fire!), pyroblast usable in rotations, blastwave knockback
Frost: mirror image, water elemental as mana battery, frostfirebolt, (fingers of frost, deep freeze?)

Fire kinda has the best new toys, but some of arcanes are more usable and frost has a whole new role added
to the raid if we can get the elemental to work. I do think frostfire adds more to fire than frost, until you consider
the glyphs take away frostbolt chill for DPS. Then the chill on frostfire makes it a decent opener in solo play
and situationally useful in some smaller group content

Ah, I forgot molten armor, that was new too. But in a way I count that a bit more like new ranks of an old spell. Just like how we get a new portal but its really just a continuation of the concept portals. Also I´m not counting talent based spells. Everyone gets a couple of spells from their talent trees, but the number of separate spells you get from a talent tree isn´t as important as the number of trained spells an expansion brings. Mainly because baseline spells haveto be desigend more carefully to be usefull across several specs, I know that doesnt happen with all baseline spells, but in general they haveto be designed for a bit more overall usability to any spec than a talent spell has to, and since its an expansion we´re talking about they should also preferably bring something new and exiting that feels magey. Mirror image does exactly that, well... has very good potential to do precisely that with some tweaking. FFB just doesnt feel very exiting anymore, could be that it gets a workover and makes an old spec many of us have fond memories of viable again. If so it brings something interesting to mages in wrath. But even in this scenario it would be nice if mages got something more than mirror image that all mages like to play with and isnt very restricted to certain specs. Or possibly something restricted but more than one spell. (Think AB & Ice lance.)

Actovision · 09/10/08, 11:37 PM

What is the point of this immunity talk with regards to FFB? It was stated from its inception that it was a bolt spell meant to stand on its own and provide viability to elemental specs. Whether or not this will happen depends on the final numbers we get after the dps balancing is finished. Its definitely a concern worth raising on the Beta forums for those with elemental aspirations, or anyone who doesn't want a new spell slot wasted on Arcane Missiles 2.0.

Scorponok · 09/11/08, 1:31 AM

Apologies if this has been asked already, but do non-fireball spellcasts break Hot Streak?

E.g. Would fireball crit / fireblast noncrit / fireball crit trigger hot streak, or would it be cancelled by the fire blast cast?

Presumably if you do fireball crit / fireball crit / free pyroblast, the hot streak will end after that and you have to start from scratch.

Nastre · 09/11/08, 2:05 AM

Any specific mage changes in the 8926 Beta build that beta players have discovered as of yet?

Only one I have heard of is a reduction in the base damage of Deep Freeze.

flyingtoastr · 09/11/08, 2:25 AM

# Improved Arcane Blast - Tier 5 bonus reduced to 5% from 20%.

We all knew it was coming anyway.

manly · 09/11/08, 3:22 AM

Originally Posted by Scorponok

Apologies if this has been asked already, but do non-fireball spellcasts break Hot Streak?

E.g. Would fireball crit / fireblast noncrit / fireball crit trigger hot streak, or would it be cancelled by the fire blast cast?

Presumably if you do fireball crit / fireball crit / free pyroblast, the hot streak will end after that and you have to start from scratch.

No.

Xentropy · 09/11/08, 3:23 AM

Fingers of Frost no longer procs on ice lance. This is okay, and makes sense for PvP balancing purposes. Sadly it's still the PvP version with 2 charges instead of 4 seconds.

If Inscription is trainable past 300 now, I'll have to see if it'll proc with Glyph of Frostbolt installed. It may now only proc on chill effects, like Frostbite.

Nastre · 09/11/08, 3:39 AM

Were there any changes to Mirror Image in this build?

I hear they no longer do any damage... assuming its a bug of course.

Leialyn · 09/11/08, 3:48 AM

Originally Posted by Scorponok

Apologies if this has been asked already, but do non-fireball spellcasts break Hot Streak?

E.g. Would fireball crit / fireblast noncrit / fireball crit trigger hot streak, or would it be cancelled by the fire blast cast?

Presumably if you do fireball crit / fireball crit / free pyroblast, the hot streak will end after that and you have to start from scratch.

Yep thats right, only the listed spells (Fireball, FFB, Scorch) crits and non crits affect Hot Streak.
I even managed today, to gain Hot Streak, cast 1 Fireball crit, cast another Fireball and with it an instant Pyro with Hot Streak (Buff disappeares) and when the Fireball did critically hit I just gained Hot Streak again.

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

# Improved Arcane Blast - Tier 5 bonus reduced to 5% from 20%.

We all knew it was coming anyway.

True.
But I hope they change the Arcane Blast Debuff as well. Single Key spamming to get the best DPS is surely not their goal.
Edit: It's still 20% on my T5, EU Beta here oO

And btw:
- Living Bomb Explosion still centered on the player.
- Scorch Glyph still not working.

manly · 09/11/08, 4:10 AM

Well I have some bad news.

1- You can't click off mirror image anymore, so you get a bunch of interrupted casts.
2- they hit for less. apparently they sheep too; obviously I didn't get to see this given I am attacking target dummies.
3- you switch target a lot more. like 4-5 per activation.
4- However they have like 12k mana now (I didn't bother to check if that was my mana pool, its definitely possible), and their spellcasts seem to consume almost no mana at all. They can't even consume 50% of the mana within 30s, so at least thats good.

9/11 03:07:17.256  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:17.271  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:17.271  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:17.271  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:17.271  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:17.271  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:17.309  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,463,462,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:17.309  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,477,476,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:17.309  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,474,473,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:20.513  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:20.513  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:20.513  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:20.513  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:20.513  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,514,513,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:20.609  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:20.609  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:20.697  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,504,503,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:21.236  SPELL_MISSED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,MISS
9/11 03:07:23.652  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:23.752  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:23.752  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:23.752  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,463,462,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:23.752  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,507,506,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:23.752  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:23.752  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:23.836  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:23.836  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:23.836  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,522,521,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:23.919  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:23.919  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:23.919  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0x10a28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,519,518,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:24.136  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:26.941  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:26.941  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:26.941  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,1218,1217,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:26.941  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,477,476,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:27.041  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:27.041  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:27.041  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,508,507,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:27.125  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,778,777,16,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:27.125  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:27.125  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:27.359  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:27.359  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:27.359  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:27.359  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,518,517,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:27.359  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:27.359  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:30.498  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:30.498  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:30.498  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:30.564  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,1235,1234,4,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:30.564  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,513,512,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:30.648  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:30.648  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:30.648  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,515,514,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:30.731  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:30.731  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:30.731  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,514,513,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:30.977  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:33.770  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:33.770  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:33.770  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x00000000000571B6,"Doko",0x518,0x00000000000555BE,"Goreknight",0x518,24932,"Leader of the Pack",0x1,BUFF
9/11 03:07:33.770  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,472,471,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:33.853  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:33.853  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:33.853  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,521,520,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:33.937  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:33.937  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:33.937  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,519,518,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:34.170  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:34.170  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:34.170  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,521,520,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:34.170  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:34.170  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:36.975  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:36.975  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,460,459,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:37.176  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:37.176  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:37.176  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,783,782,16,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:37.393  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:37.393  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:37.393  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:37.393  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,486,485,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:37.393  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:37.393  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:37.393  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,516,515,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:37.493  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:37.493  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:37.493  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,517,516,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:37.777  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:40.599  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:40.599  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:40.599  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,465,464,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:40.699  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,506,505,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:40.779  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:40.779  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:40.779  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,509,508,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:40.983  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:40.983  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:40.983  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,520,519,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:40.983  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:40.983  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:43.821  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:44.022  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:44.022  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:44.022  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,505,504,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:44.224  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:44.224  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:44.224  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,510,509,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:44.306  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:44.306  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:44.306  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,762,761,16,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:44.623  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:44.623  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:44.623  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,481,480,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:45.007  SPELL_CAST_START,0xF4300079F0003717,"Mirror Image",0x12111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10
9/11 03:07:47.027  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4
9/11 03:07:47.027  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59637,"Fire Blast",0x4,499,498,4,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
9/11 03:07:47.194  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0xF4300079F0003716,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:47.194  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,DEBUFF
9/11 03:07:47.194  SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF4300079F0003718,"Mirror Image",0x2111,0xF1300079A8003EC0,"Tattered Training Dummy",0xa28,59638,"Frostbolt",0x10,516,515,16,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil

463, blast
477, blast
474, blast
514
504
463, blast
507
522
519
1218, blast (crit)
477, blast
508
778 (crit)
518
1235, blast (crit)
513
515
514
472, blast
521
519
521
460, blast
783 (crit)
486, blast
516
517
465, blast
506
509
520
505
510
762 (crit)
481, blast
499, blast
516

total damage: 20787
average: 562

The short version:
-damage halved
-fireblast / frostbolt hit for 500
-frostbolts crit for 150% (750)
-fireblasts crit for 250% (1250)

--------------------------------
If anything, the constant switching needs to be fixed. I don't mind switching but I can't accept to lose a cast. 20k damage for 1.5s of cast time is good, but it can potentially become a bad deal if I keep getting my casts interrupted at the worst of times. Keep in mind that they will miss a lot on bosses too.

Finkum · 09/11/08, 4:27 AM

Five inopportune spell interrupts could easily make Mirror Image DPS neutral or even a DPS loss in a PvE setting. Let's hope they fix that aspect somehow.

Vulkaire · 09/11/08, 4:41 AM

Being randomly ported around could get really ugly in raids. I hardly trust these images not to stand in the proverbial fire. In many fights positioning is very important, and having to reposition after every port will kill dps. The port should be self initiated or at the very least wait till the current cast finishes. Considering the aforementioned postioning concerns and the risk of being ported into the proverbial fire, I would much prefer the self initiated route.

Lileith · 09/11/08, 4:54 AM

Originally Posted by Blizzard Staff

Demonology
Skills

* Fel Armor mana regeneration effect changed so you regain 2% of your maximum health every 5 sec.

It seems they reverted back the spirit for Warlock, maybe they changed their mind and doesn't want spirit to be mandatory for them? They will still gain spellpower from it, but in that case i doubt they will chose item with spirit if they can avoid them.

Is that their answer to mage complain "warlock benefit more from spirit than us" ? The good point for us is that if warlock don't want spirit, there will be non spirit items.

Leialyn · 09/11/08, 5:11 AM

Originally Posted by Lileith

It seems they reverted back the spirit for Warlock, maybe they changed their mind and doesn't want spirit to be mandatory for them? They will still gain spellpower from it, but in that case i doubt they will chose item with spirit if they can avoid them.

Is that their answer to mage complain "warlock benefit more from spirit than us" ? The good point for us is that if warlock don't want spirit, there will be non spirit items.

They also changed improved Soul Drain from 30% chance to get 10% of the damage done as mana to 30% chance to get 2% maximum Mana.

I hope the Mage suggestion threads turn out well and we see a change soon.

Nastre · 09/11/08, 5:36 AM

The switching of Mirror Image strikes me as a pvp aspect.

It needs to be able to be ignored/embraced as a player decision.

Much like the macro achieved in the previous iteration of the spell.

I think they hit the damage a little hard though, perhaps due to the amount of 'op cry' that have arisen from players in beta.

Leialyn · 09/11/08, 5:41 AM

Originally Posted by Nastre

I think they hit the damage a little hard though, perhaps due to the amount of 'op cry' that have arisen from players in beta.

They just need to scale with equipment. Problem solved :/

In case you havn't seen it yet, T7.25 Mage Set
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...et213_mage.jpg
333 Stamina
345 Intellect
132 Spirit

443 Spell Power
218 Crit Rating
81 Hit Rating
102 Haste Rating

Roywyn · 09/11/08, 5:58 AM

New tailoring gloves/robe are itemised now!

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...spellweave.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...moonshroud.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/.../ebonweave.jpg

The good:
They are robes now. No more 2-months forum war to change vests into robes.
They also are BoE right now and don't require anything to equip. May or may not be intended.

The bad:
Ebon has sta/hit/more int. Moon has sta/spi. Spell has spi/haste.
Due to Ebon having more int, it has less +hit than Spell has +haste or Moon has +spirit.

That means priests will want Spell because it has spirit and haste, mages want Spell because it has more haste than Ebon has hit, and warlocks want Spell because it has spirit and more haste than Ebon has hit.

The ugly:
Sunfire Robes are still better.

2T5 changed to 5%
I have no idea whether it's in or not. Either way, hat makes it still a good +150 damage bonus, more if your gear gets better. That's still quite a lot for 2 slots, you need to find more than +75 damage upgrades to 4 slots of T5 to outgear the set bonus.

Same goes for 2T6 and 4T6, especially with the Sunwell pieces being well designed, although you need 4 pieces for it.
And with Evocation now being worth it if you're mana limited, 2T6 is still a 12 MPS or 60 MP5 bonus over a 5 minute fight.
Living Bombs can turn that mana into up to 50 DPS or more.