The wording on Focus Magic is quite peculiar. The way I understand it:

Increases the target's (random player) chance to critically hit with all spells by 3%. When the target (random player) critically hits the caster's (you) chance to critically hit with spells is increased by 3% for 10 sec.

If it works that way, that every time anyone with Focus Magic crits the mage gets 3% extra crit, then it is better than Moonkin Aura or Elemental Oath, but only for the casting mage. Did somebody test this spell already?

Edit: doh Amarek was faster

There is no stipulation that it can only be cast on one target. It's going to be our version of "Divine Spirit?". Buff the entire raid, including yourself. If anyone, including yourself crit with a spell, you gain an additional 3% crit. We'll know soon enough.

Could you show the maths for this please? I would have thought that this extra 5% crit is a signifcant dps gain because of Hot Streak but am prepared to be proved wrong.

The text at Focus Magic - Spell - World of Warcraft is ambiguous on whether the 10 second 3% crit applies to the mage that casts the spell or the recipient. The "buff" text is pretty much the same as the "cast" text so it's impossible to determine from context who "the caster" is.

I would assume that it gives the person with the buff 3% extra crit when they crit for 10 seconds (that is, 3% all the time and 6% when they crit for 10 seconds), as since you can apparently cast it on any number of targets it giving the mage who cast the buff the crit for 10 seconds would seem pointless as there would be enough casters in a given raid with the buff to leave the extra 3% crit permanently up on the mage as you would only need one caster in the whole raid critting per ten seconds to do so.

Going off from the game balance perspective a bit: how do people feel about the fun factors of new arcane as compared to old arcane? I was a big fan of the old arcane tree (the TBC one, that is). The only problem I have with that tree was endgame scaling. I liked mixing fireballs or frostbolts with arcane blasts while I'm not a big fan of arcane missiles. I'm also not a huge fan of having *all* 3 trees come up with a "trigger" where a random chance generates a condition where you must then react (FoF, hot streak, missile barrage).

Arcane/fire rotation was reasonably complicated in TBC, especially if one kept improved scorch up for themselves (this is true until gearing levels where spirit/mana battery scaling allowed pushing spells other than arcane blast out of the equation). Throwing fireballs/scorches while waiting for AB debuff to tick down, timing your movement to match with the debuff, stacking cooldowns, keeping up improved scorch etc.

It was fun. In the beta arcane just isn't that much fun for me anymore (and hence I've pretty much buried the idea of playing mage in wotlk). So for those who liked the old arcane: do you like the new one better?

Yeah, this is the sort of thing where I find it helpful to apply the "is that crazy?" rule. Having the proc buff bounce back to the original caster of the buff seems kind of crazy to me, so I very much doubt it'll work that way.

Remember also that most raid buffs are supposed to be of equal value when fully talented. A 3% passive buff with a high-uptime 6% total buff on a single player is not of remotely equal value to 5% on everybody from Elemental Oath or Moonkin Aura. A 3% passive buff that has a reasonably high-uptime 6% total buff on everybody is a whole lot closer in value to the two static buffs. At 83% uptime, which isn't too far from what one would expect on a 10 second buff that procs on every crit assuming modern raid crit rates, they'd be of roughly equal value.

How does buffs of similar but slightly varing effect interact with eachother currently? Scorch and WC is a given questionmark, but this new change to FM makes me wonder if Im going to haveto ask any present boomkins to shift to caster form when I´m buffing to avoid "your target already has a more powerfull effect" errors. Best thing would be if all buffs/debuffs always apply but similar ones just dont stack and the strongest one gets used.

The problem I see with this interpretation/implementation is that mages would have an 11 point talent that is similar to 31 and 36 (2 pts) talents of other classes. This devalues not one but two hybrid DPS caster trees as any mage can easily grab it (i.e. even fire if no moonkin or elemental shaman is available; 11/52/8 or 18/53/0). Hoping to see a better wording come out.

EDIT: only pointed out the negative impact. The positive impact would be that guilds that can't carry a moonkin or elemental shaman due to scarcity would still be able to apply this particular raid buff. But if this is the case, it should be moved up the tree to 21 or 31 deep.

It never was, though the tooltip is just now changed to match how it was acting in-game. The only major issue with every spell consuming charges of the buff is molten armor procs burn charges. You were always able to use BF on a high-crit-chance fireball with a FoF charge.

Overall I like the frost changes, and hopefully the confirmed drop of non-chill-effect spells from being able to proc FoF, especially if the FoF and Frostbite proc rates overlap like they were doing last build (if one proc'd, the other proc'd, there were no cases of one OR the other procs), will make it a purely PvE raiding talent and of low value for PvPers (who'd already have Frostbite, and would only receive the benefit of being able to Deep Freeze or Shatter a different target than the one frozen for the 2 FoF points), which would make it easier to propose a reversion to the timer rather than charges without PvPers from hither and yon crawling out of the woodwork to complain that it would nerf them too much. Even a five second timer would basically make it last exactly as long as a Frostbite that couldn't break early on damage, and for PvE purposes, other than the survivability of freezing mobs in place, one could just get FoF and ignore Frostbite for most of the effect. Frees up 3 additional points, in a way, since if the two procs will always overlap, Frostbite becomes of much lower interest to me in PvE.

I will have to check again in this build whether Frostbite and FoF: 1) Can proc with a Glyphed Frostbolt, and 2) Always proc together like last build or can proc separately, which would result in a 27.75% chance for one or the other on a given chill effect application.

Lhivera's post has the math. 5% crit ~= 4.6% damage for the gear levels we're at for pure spam.


Fingers of Frost
It now works like always before, only the wording and proc chance have changed.
There is one cool thing about it, and that is Brain Freeze. You can use Brain Freeze Fireball instead of Ice Lance or mabe even Deep Freeze on your Finger Combo (3rd charge). I did that before a few times, it's quite interesting when procs align.

It became awkward when Frostbite procs ate Finger charges, and the proc would always align (10% chance on FoF+FB, 5% on FB, 85% on nothing).

Fireball Glyph
Using the same Naxx-10 gear set, adjusting the crit calculation mistake and adjusting Hot Streak procs.
Also, removing the old "old cast delay loss" since Hot Streak keeps tracking crits between the geting buff and using it.
Taking a Fireball spec, LB every cooldown, instant Pyros on procs:

No Glyph - 42% FB crit, 3214 FB DPS, 8.05 casts per HS, 3660 DPS total
5% damage - 42% FB crit, 3375 FB DPS, 8.05 casts per HS, 3797 DPS total
5% crit - 42% FB crit, 3366 FB DPS, 6.65 casts per HS, 3823 DPS total

So, -9 FB DPS, +26 DPS for cycles.

Frostfire Bolt
Assuming that the DoT is supposed to scale with 5% spell power (or just use rank 1 otherwise), 0/51/20 spec

No Glyph - 3055 DPS as nuke, 3300 DPCT as 9s DoT
Glyphed - 3189 DPS as nuke, 3433 DPCT as 9s DoT

Glyphed as cycle with 15*FB+5*FFB+4*LB and 2.6937 instant Pyroblasts (adjusted for the lower FFB crit) 3834 DPS.
But then you have the problem that you can't use the Scorch Glyph, since you need both nukes and your armour glyphed, so it's only feasible for the second mage.
I don't think the 11 DPS cycle gain makes up for the DPS increase and sheer usefulness of the Scorch Glyph.


Arcane Blast
Went from 4518 DPS and sustainable to 3743 DPS and probably not sustainable.
Boom! Saves you 30 gold by not buying the new ranks on live.
That's not counting Torment of the Weak and Focus Magic, unless someone know how they will/are supposed to work.

Randomly tuning spells up and down is alright, but when you obviously have no sheets availabe and go with gut feeling, you'll always vastly overshoot or undershoot when a very fragile mechanic requires fine tuning.
Let's see how the next version will look like.


On Glyphs
I actually don't like those Glyphs. Yes, they are strong, but Glyphs should be about flavour/style, not about bold numbers.
When one nuke spell gets a DPS glyph, all others need to get one as well, or you'll have to start readusting that spell and/or all other spells.

I would have prefered the Fireball Glyph as a small increase (~1-2%) for losing the DoT, the Frostbolt Glyph is allowed to be sronger because you lose a good chunk of utility, and Frostfire Bolt then wouldn't need a glyph.


[Edit]: Flamestrike down to 2.0s cast time. Fire-spec Flamestrike is now better DPS than Fire-spec Blizzard!
Unless the targeting circle changes, or the issues with acually hitting with a ranged AoE with cast time, it will still be Lamestrike.

[Edit]: Finger's of Frost proc rate in increased, only the mechanic itself seems unchanged.

I must say some mage glyphs look a bit bleak compared to resto druid glyphs, for example, which give reasonably interesting variations. Similar designs for glyphs might yield better results for gameplay I think. For example you could make a "reverese" regrowth glyph for fireball: +15% initial damage done if the fireball debuff is *not* already on the target - might be good for frost mages or for arcane ones to drop in the occasional fireball. Not that such glyphs need to necessarily replace current ones, just saying that some of the current ones look a bit boring.

EDIT: As for 1-2 increase on fireball glyph - doesn't the fireball dot make up about 1-2% of fireball's total damage quite easily? If spamming fireball you'll get about 1 tick per fireball. If forced to move you'll get 2-3 and when casting a triggered pyroblast you'll also get two. I don't have the math here but I believe that the dot is far from negligible damage when compared to a 5% increase. Of course it can sometimes be beneficial to lose the dot (less debuff slots used).

Roywyn: did you consider fireblast with FOF proc ?

Hot Streak proccing off just 2 consecutive crits now?

With the implementation of the new fireball glyph and everything else leading to what is looking to be a new high for fire spec crit rates, surely Hot Streak is going to become far too powerful. I can't imagine this change lasting long.

Naxx25 set bonuses: Valorous Frostfire Shoulderpads - Item - World of Warcraft

The 2pc is whatever, the 4pc is (obviously) nice.

As far real changes go, the AB change is completely expected. Not a lot else to say beyond that, I think, still waiting for some really substantial stuff.

True, but if you're being hit by mobs, they're probably freezable, which means when FoF procs, you've also got them Frostbitten, so the charge is largely irrelevant. Assuming, that is, that the two are linked in some way (which I rather assume they are, since a 1/3.6 chance to proc one or the other seems excessive). We need to test with different proc rates. One point in Frostbite and three points in FoF should result in FoF proccing on its own sometimes, but will it?

Frostbite's primary value in PvE is now as a Blizzard enhancement. Gogo tankless AOE.


Well, the type of change was expected, but not so much the degree.

Hm, actually I didn't.
Fire Blast has better base damage, better crit damage, +6% crit chance. Ice Lance has +5%, +5%, +6% damage multipliers.

In the Naxx-10 kit, Fire Blast has 2137 hits, 4621 crits, 3635 DPS. Ice Lance has 2128 hits, 4448 crits, 3388 DPS.
Fast forward to 3k spell power and 7% more crit, and Fire Blast is still ahead with 4444 DPS vs. 4250 DPS.
It requires either silly amounts of spell damage, like above 5k, or reaching the crit cap for Fire Blast until Ice Lance takes over.


Issue
Ignite Bugs, who would have thought! You want to use your 2nd FoF charge on Frostfire Bolt, so using Fire Blast there will kill your Ignite damage.
So, it's "Frostbolt + Fire Blast" vs. "Frostfire Bolt + Ice Lance".
The former combo wins if the FFB doesn't scale, the latter wins if it does. Assuming non-glyphed FFB, not enough glyph slots.


Dang, so at 70 I'll be running Sunwell to get Boots of the Tempest for a 4/8+4/5 combo?

Robes or Cowl are a ~50 dmg loss, Boots are ~60 dmg, Bracers are ~15 dmg, Belt is ~40 dmg. Hm, ~165 damage equivalence loss, the 4-set bonus is about ~160 dmg, 2-set bonus is a decent chunk of mana.

Sidegrade at most, phew. No running old content for significant upgrades at least.


Range is an issue as well, I was assuming people were aware of that. Also, Fire Blast is awfully expensive.
The increase is Frost DPS is nice. Just looking at Frostbolt spam, it's a 3% DPS increase.
I like how Frost got 4 talent points freed up too.

I'll have a closer look at specs later once we know better how things actually work.

Focus Magic:
I nice change to this talent although the wording seems to have created some confusion that needs clarification once the server is up.
However this is still pretty useless for 25mans because it most likely will be overridden by moonkin aura/elemental oath and the 1 min buff(and mana cost) are very annoying and not in-line with similar abilities from other classes.

Regarding the reduction in the number of points in certain talents, it's a very welcome change.
Burnout though is still "lame" in comparison to spell power!!!
I think it's fair that arcane instability is 5 points since it grants you 100% pushback.

Another issue is fire blast's range, especially for a frost build that is highly unlikely to have the fire range talent. Many, many boss fights require hanging out at max range, if only to maximize spread room.

You also in your earlier post say that FoF hasn't changed except for the wording...but it procs at 15% instead of 10% now. That's functionally another 5% crit for frost, which should help close the dps gap.

They've been operating with a sledgehammer philosophy for a while. They see something that clearly needs work (buff or nerf, either or) and they make huge changes to it and see how people like it at the other end of spectrum. If it's too much in any direction, it'll be re-balanced.

Like I mentioned in the last post, the total absence of Fire changes and the lack of anything related to Spirit for us suggests to me we've still got a lot of stuff in the pipe.

Let's hope so, with the last nerf the arcane tree have no utility.

IMHO Arcane can be just 1 button spam, like it is now but it also must be challenging in mana management .

Also due to it less raid sinergy it has to do a litte more dps than fire

Or Focus Magic is a single buff for a single 'favored' player. Maybe it can be only active for a single raid member per mage. (as 'Power Infusion' but with a long duration)