Living bomb knock-up wording

"Living Bomb doesn't knock up all targets in the air anymore."

Based on the wording it does not sound like they removed the knock-up completely, it is worded as if it will still affect the direct target, just not the surrounding enemies.

Grayrest: So, Arcane is moving up, but still not even overtaking anything. What is causing Fire specs to have ~600 dps higher than the next-best spec? From this, the only possible conclusion is that raiding mages will be Fire mages, no? You sacrifice ~13.4% of your dps going from Fire to Arcane/Fire. It's a difference of ~15% for Frost specs.

I'm trying to not be alarmist. I am happy that a 'pure arcane rotation' seems more viable with MB buffed. However, this analysis (quick and preliminary as it is) shows very little change.

Is there any way we could get an Elementalist spec up for comparison?

No, that's just the MMO-Champ faux-patch-note-creator's way of saying that the knock-up text has been removed from the tooltip text.

Living Bomb - Spell - World of Warcraft <- read this.

Manly mentioned this build to me, but I think I'd rather have 1/3 Imp Blizz. over 1/3 Frost Chan. like this.

Edit: Beat to the point by lhivera.

I very much like that at the moment, you can go up the fire and frost tress in differant ways if your going for frostfire (in flavor talents, rather than must take)

Personally I'll be planning something much like http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000
As I'm not a fan of blastwave or dragons breath, and I'll only use shatter on trash and soloing, so would prefer the extra mana buffer of full frost channeling. Taken firey payback, as I can think of more places I'll take enough damage to proc it than I can of where I'd like to use BW and DB

I honestly do not know. I don't have the spreadsheets built to theorycraft non-arcane specs and I'm only reasonably familiar with fire/frost raid dps so I didn't really check the fire/frost math in the sim. The fire results look weird (edit: unusually high, that is) compared to the numbers we've gotten from vontre and roywyn, so there's probably an issue there. As for elemental specs, the spec is the same as deep fire, just FFB replaces fireball. I expect it'd look about the same but 1-2% higher.

OT: Sadly your name's not familiar to me, so I doubt it

I think as long as burnout stays the way is it, there is little you could do to stop Frostfire specs going for it.

I was thinking about putting some points into WiF too, maybe something like http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000

Depends really how many times you'll dip past 35% health, and if the talent will save you alot, so depends how WotLK fights work, as speaking purely from sunwell, most fights I'd regularly drop below 35% (although admittedly wouldn't then take much damage for ages afterwards)

Fun times ahead!

(I would probably go the WiF version though to be fair, it'll likely be better in the long run)

This isn't related to the current conversation, but there was talk that the whole FoF issue could be solved by FoF being a buff that was consumed on spell hit. For what it's worth, Arcane Potency behaves exactly like this. I've been doing MB proc->PoM->AM->FFB to get the crit on both spells. The downside is that Arcane Potency is subject to munching if it procs on the filler part of the bolt->ABr rotation. I don't really worry about it because if it procs on the ABr, both spells get it in the next rotation so the upside is larger than the downside. It's been this way for a while (whenever they fixed it being eaten by a single missile from an AM volley), but I don't remember seeing it mentioned anywhere.

Thoughts on new build:

Well they've done what I thought they might do. Frostfire bolt gains the benefit of empowered fireball in this build (talent renamed Empowered Fire). This had got to be a substantial increase to FFB DPS. If they really want to make FFB the spell you use instead of respeccing, do the same for the empowered frost talent. It's impossible to get both and frost is already losing on cast time.

Deep freeze will do no damage. Frostbolt spam it is, then?

Frostbite lower in the tree helps arcane PvP. A lot.

MBar proccing off Abar had to happen with the current arcane "rotation".

The rest is pretty inconsequential. Evocation moved to 5 min cooldown doesn't help at all on the vast majority of fights and doesn't solve any mana issue. Three minutes would see its use on substantially more fights. The knockup on Living Bomb doesn't matter to me, only that the damage is applied properly.

Grayrest, could you work out at what amount of haste the rotation ABar(ABx2) becomes better than ABar/AB? Given that the former will benefit from 1 lot of AB ramping. 66% is the upper limit (getting 2 ABs in under the ABar cooldown), 33% is the lower limit (ABar/AB = 3 second cycle). Obviously topping 33% won't happen in early gear and probably won't go much over in later gear, but I'm trying to evaluate deep arcane with either PoM/Pyro or IV, and further to that, how arcane operates under conditions of high haste (heroism and IV).

Arcane can gt 9% haste between raid buffs and talents straight off the bat, so its a road i'm interested in examining.

Edit - ignore that 66% bit. Forgot to count in the GCD from ABar. Rest of the question still stands.

Penny for your thoughts on this?

This seems to be a pretty huge buff to a Hot Streak + Shatter build. Scorch + Fireblast on a frozen target will nearly always grant you a free pyro. A build like this is going to have amazing burst dmg.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000

Just imagine: FBl > BW > FS > DB > Scorch > FBl > FS > Nova > Scorch > FBl > Instant Pyro > ColdSnap > Nova > Scorch > FBl > Instant Pyro... Not dead? Iceblock till BW CD is almost up and do it again.

Assuming lvl 70 stats and only critting the spells on a frozen target we are easily talking 20k damage...

Quick note: Spell Impact appears to be fixed for Fireball (no longer adding 2/4/6 flat damage, but rather 2/4/6% increase).

It opens Arcane to the use of Ice Armor with frostbite procs, which it otherwise could not afford. Ice Armor is better than anything against melee, and having it proc frostbite for triple lances between ABar cooldowns is golden. An arcane build would still have 57 points left over after taking frostbite and fire all the way to pyroblast. The arcane tree is heavily bloated still, and this helps.

Well, I revised it a bit... 0.51.20

I removed points from Cold Snap, Ice Shards, and Piercing Ice because this build relies upon Frost Nova and a Scorch/Fire Blast/Pyroblast combo. There's no frost spells needed. I removed Cold Snap because it's irrelevant. The only cast you have to do is Scorch. Aside from that, Ice Floes already brings Icy Veins down to a 2:24 cooldown. I'd also be running with Frost Warding, since you'd be using Ice Armor in this build. Might as well throw points in it and Permafrost over increased frost damage. Next, Arctic Reach benefits Frost Nova slightly, for the increased radius.

Over to the Fire tree... removing Cold Snap let's us pick up Living Bomb. It's still useful, as a 12 second instant DoT can always be beneficial. I also removed a point from Firestarter and a point from Molten Shields and put them into Fiery Payback. 20% less damage when you hit 35% health is somewhat beneficial, as you don't have Ice Barrier, and if Hot Streak doesn't proc, at least you can throw out a 1.5 second Pyroblast. I also removed 2 points from World in Flames and put them into Ignite, since we are dealing with multiple fire crits here.

What I've been using on PTR (minus a few talents because I'm only 70) for Fire PvP is 7.64.0. It's mainly for battlegrounds and anywhere you'll be fighting a crowd, since Firestarter is actually of limited use against a single target (mana cost for flamestrike is too high for the payout against one target). If fire proves viable in arenas, I'd undoubtedly remove points from Firestarter and put 1 into MoE and the other into Incineration.

The bright side is the frost raiding build gains one point to spend elsewhere. The dark side is frost raiding is closer to frostbolt spam than it has ever been. Even exploiting latency for FoF-combos goes out of the picture pretty early (before T7 farming is complete) with only ice lance as an option.

Looking at something like this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000

Lets you get all the way to Focus Magic, and at that point I think longer range sheeps are more meaningful than any other points in the frost tree, which is why I went with 2/2 magic attunement. This is just a sad day for me as a die-hard lover of the frost playstyle. Between ice lance's poor scaling, FoF's PvP-focused mechanic, and Deep Freeze doing no damage, the nails seem to be firmly hammered into the shatter combo's coffin, in OR out of raids. (This build assumes Blizzard will proc FoF and get a lot of crits without Frostbite. If Frostbite is needed to make Blizzard worth using then dropping magic attunement for Frostbite is worthwhile.)

Quick note, did a confirmation of FFBs coefficient with empowered fire, its as expected (3.0 / 3.5) + 0.15

World of Warcraft (English) Forums -> Proven Beta Stuff

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I posted on the beta forum, except I ignored Attunement and maxed Improved Blizzard. Brain Freeze is really just in there in a desperate attempt to fend off boredom; we certainly don't need it alongside Clearcasting.

The catch? I'd never play this spec. I'd play my Hunter instead. It seems astonishing to me that Blizzard has gone through so much effort to produce exactly no change in the Frost playstyle.

Apologies if someone's already picked up on this, but I haven't seen anything so far. I don't normally post but this seemed to funny to pass up....on PTR right now, when the hot streak buff is up, I'm able to chain cast instant pyros.

Build 9014 on Beta doesn't have this bug... But it does have a very dramatic proc noise for hotstreak now, or maybe that has been in effect for a while, most of my chaincast testing has been done with the game muted and Original Series Trek blairing, so I may just not have noticed.

I'm still liking this fire build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Only problem with that is no Elemental Precision meaning Mages will need to go the full 17% Hit unless they aim for less with Raid buffs. Now that Spell Impact has been fixed.

Having been in Beta for awhile, I have found the proc noise to be kind of annoying, but at the same time it's nice to let me know I have an instant Pyroblast to shoot. I've also noticed doing five man instances without Salvation in the game that back to back instant Pyro's even if they both crit it does not pull agro. I'm liking what I've experienced thus far and will most likely be sticking with the Fire Tree as I was first inclined to change, I'm glad Blizzard put some great quality into the fire tree since Frost usually seems to be the main Mage spec. I still believe the Fire-Icy Veins Spec will be a great raiding spec in Wrath of the Lich King, again tho that's just my opinion.

Ok so, I personally confirmed that spell impact does increase fireball damage by 6%.

I'm getting 20% coefficient on every LB tick, and 36% on explosion (?). Not too sure what to make of this. Could be wrong but pretty sure it used to be 40% on explosion. My guess is they nerfed it to 116% coef per cast, just to be sure it stays ahead of the curve. It just seems odd.

Also, a really nice nicety: when you respec, it remembers the position on your bars of the talents as you put the points up. So if I drop my spec and go back fire blastwave/db/pyroblast and whatnot will be put back on the bars.

Also, in the 'wtf' category. ZIT just went crazy since the last patch. It seems like every ignite is giving me..extras ?